[inzpiral88]

Kyoji83 wrote:

Last time, PCP for Physiotherapy (PCP-P) is at Diploma level. If not wrong, PCP-P will still get government subsidies like tuition grants cause it is the same 3 years course as full time. This mean LD amounts will be much lower compare to 2 years PCP-RN.

Now, PCP-P is at Degree level which is the reason why it is more expensive. But PCP-P still get government subsidies like tuition grants to bring down the LD while this is not given to PCP-RN.

So all courses like PCP-P, you will know how much the course fees & able to give you details information like LD. Only PCP-RN, it is up to NYP to give a course fees after class start. Individual will needs to go NYP office to get the invoice to know the actual amount of course fees & use the calculation formula in sponsorship deed to know your actual LD amount.

Don't ask me why this is double standard. Normally, a seller will give a price for the product to be consider by the buyer. However I am surprise why this work another way when the buyers (WDA, MOH, MOHH and sponsoring hospitals) willing to buy the product before the seller (NYP) even give the actual price.

It is up to Auditor General's Office (AGO) to question:

1) Why did NYP charge a high price or unacceptable purchasing procedures?

2) Why MOE give Singaporeans & PRs Tuition Grant for studying full-time Diploma in Nursing (PCP) but NYP did not apply for it?

Come to think about all the sponsored PCP programmes, assuming you are the sponsored companies, will you let these trained professionals leave the country or to jump ship from one hospitals to another after serving their bonds?

I thought such programmes are great for anyone who is serious to consider a second career option. It may be the case at a first glance. Unfortunately, there seems to be a lot of underlying terms and conditions, clauses and unclear corners that are not seen easily.

I had once signed a bond with a company for 2 years. Reason being of such bond is that you work in their organisation, you have gained considerable working experience in exchange of the time. End of the bond, there is no rewards or anything. I suffered for almost 2 years due to their judgement on my poor work performance. I couldn't even leave or resign because the liquidated charges will be imposed on me. Till one day, they decided to release me without me paying any single cent. This is madness! From then on, I am extremely skeptical and wary about bonds, especially issues connected to the government organisations.

[Kyoji83]

inzpiral88 wrote:

Come to think about all the sponsored PCP programmes, assuming you are the sponsored companies, will you let these trained professionals leave the country or to jump ship from one hospitals to another after serving their bonds?

This is just my personal believe. In the first place, this is not medical degree & hospitals do not have the interest to have sponsored courses like nursing diploma to 'place & trained' candidates. They can save training cost to hire fresh graduates directly. To save on labour cost, they can hire foreigners. To add on, they can fill in manpower directly instead of waiting for 2 to 3 years for candidates to graduate from nursing school. This is how private sector work. Singapore government always value Foreigners over Singaporeans which is the reason why government wish to attract young foreigners to be PR & bond them to work in Singapore. When Singaporeans start to complaint of the unequal treatment, government then started to offer to Singaporeans. If their employees are consider more like a 'liability' rather then 'assets', I think companies should already expected that employees will leave when the bond end.

inzpiral88 wrote:

I thought such programmes are great for anyone who is serious to consider a second career option. It may be the case at a first glance. Unfortunately, there seems to be a lot of underlying terms and conditions, clauses and unclear corners that are not seen easily.

Yes, it true. But the things is if you find out more information about how PCP work for both employer (& employee), it does not attract employer to offer PCP. Some dare to try once & decided not to do it again.

For example, PCP for Professional Executives.

At employer level, they must pay & sent you for useless WSQ modules (from a list to chose from) for up to around 12 days that mostly is not useful to your job. After you are on course, employer still needs to find someone cover you. Only benefits is government co-fund partially your salary & course fees for 3 months but must follow government regulations to get that money.

At employee point of view, what the use of 3 months OJT if employer decided not to hire you & you consider as 'intern' experience? The WSQ modules certificate are useless to find job outside.

inzpiral88 wrote:

I had once signed a bond with a company for 2 years. Reason being of such bond is that you work in their organisation, you have gained considerable working experience in exchange of the time. End of the bond, there is no rewards or anything. I suffered for almost 2 years due to their judgement on my poor work performance. I couldn't even leave or resign because the liquidated charges will be imposed on me. Till one day, they decided to release me without me paying any single cent. This is madness! From then on, I am extremely skeptical and wary about bonds, especially issues connected to the government organisations.

Unfair term are void sometime in the contract law. They have no right to bond you & unless they lost something like money to sent you to course. I think they pay an allowance since you are under 'sponsorship'. 'Sponsorship' & employment contract is different & it side more towards the employer when it come to termination clause.

[zidmosby]

Hi all, just wanted to add in my two cents.

To be honest, I applied for PCP-RN as an "easy" way out of unemployment. However I did do ample research and asked many current nurses on their honest opinion on their jobs. I wanted to make an informed decision before I sign contract (if I was selected) despite needing a flow of income badly.

The interview process is as followed:

1. Group to be in a holding room
2. Group briefing by MOH personnel
3. Panel interview individually

While in the holding room, I chatted with a few other candidates - some were like me who were hoping to secure stability and some claimed to pursue their nursing passion.

Just out of curiosity, for any nurses who are reading this, I am not sure how one wakes up and knows instantly they want to embark in this career, or any other career for that matter. I am really quite interested to know how the passion sparked and if that passion sustains over time? For those that joined PCP, would you still look for other ways to join nursing if the PCP did not exist, or would you just drop the idea?

Continuing on. We went into the briefing and they informed us of several things:

1. To be fully aware that PCP requires 101% commitment from each candidate due to the accelerated coursework. They showed us a sample of our schedule for the next two years in tiny fonts - think of it as a show and tell session rather than us actually being able to see the paper and absorb the information. They did highlight that we will have very little time and to inform our family/spouses/children to understand that PCP comes first.

2. They then mentioned that the reason PCP has to come first is because of the LD that incurs. They phrased it in such a way that it is in everybody's best interest for the candidate to put PCP first so that everyone wins, in the sense that candidates do not incur LD and the employer gets a candidate by the time graduation has occurred.

3. During this time, it was then informed that should a candidate fail a module, repayment fee is the candidate's responsibility and sponsors will not pay you allowance for the term extension. At any point of time, you may get a letter saying that they will no longer need you to participate in this program. Even if this was their choice, you are still liable for LD.

4. They did tell us of a few candidates that dropped out due to their own personal commitment and/or those who were unable to cope with the accelerated version and are now in high debt. I would like to point that the way they mentioned this was in a very "matter of fact" way and with little to no sympathy. I asked on the candidate drop out rate and they seemed very hesitant to inform this but mentioned it was around 20% or 5 pax per intake.

5. Your actual salary after graduation is subjected to the sponsoring companies. Which means that you may or may not get lesser but they were upfront to mention that usually candidates can be around the $2000-$2200 range but again, graduate first and then see what you are offered. But if you think again, you don't really have a say. You sign the PCP contract, you just have to serve it out and seek better employment after that.

Next, we went into another holding room and wait to be called for panel interview. I would note that most are young students rather than actual mid career switchers. When I was called in, here was my experience:

1. They did not like my resume. They questioned why my qualifications are different than the jobs I have worked. This was apparently a concern for them as if I commit to PCP, the next 5 years is in a specified field and they felt that my employment record is a liability and it indicated I am unable to stick to a field.

2. They asked if I knew anything about nursing. I told them that I have asked others on their experience. They somehow took offence to this and said that no matter how many people I ask, I still will not know the exact job scope a nurse does through everyday. I told them that it is impossible for me to know exactly what a nurse goes through for the simple fact that I am not a nurse! That is where the two years study and clinical placement comes in to help me transition. They told me to volunteer in nursing homes and help clean patients etc to get a feel of what nurses to. I told them I was unaware of such programmes i.e. letting a volunteer with no professional qualification to help care for a patient. It's a lawsuit waiting to happen if this really exists!

3. They noted that I have employer testimonials and I said that I had close relationships with all my superiors and that this bond has enabled me to grow and develop my potential in each workplace. They did not like this as they said that to be a nurse, patients come first. In their words, "you cannot run to your supervisor to everything".

4. When they asked if I had any questions, I asked what was the support for nurses who wanted to further their studies as I understand nurses need to work long hours/shift. They answered accordingly but made a point to tell me that this question signifies I place an importance on myself rather than my patients and that was unacceptable.

All in all, they basically did not like that I was not a fresh faced graduate

I suppose they were looking for people who could just bow down to what they wanted to enforce and not talk back if there was unfairness happening. As you can tell, I obviously did not get into the program. I actually got into a different PCP which was more of OJT rather than "study first, work later". I enjoyed myself very much and it opened up more doors for me after I completed it.

To those that are thinking of going for the "study first, work later" kind of PCP, I would encourage you to do a thorough research on the career you want and if you can cope with the pressure. It is a good program on paper but the reality of it may or may not be just as great. Of course your own commitment is a factor, but ultimately I would just suggest for those interested to think first on how you will pay back the LD before you sign up. If you have nothing to lose, go for it.

[zidmosby]

inzpiral88 wrote:

Come to think about all the sponsored PCP programmes, assuming you are the sponsored companies, will you let these trained professionals leave the country or to jump ship from one hospitals to another after serving their bonds?

I thought such programmes are great for anyone who is serious to consider a second career option. It may be the case at a first glance. Unfortunately, there seems to be a lot of underlying terms and conditions, clauses and unclear corners that are not seen easily.

I had once signed a bond with a company for 2 years. Reason being of such bond is that you work in their organisation, you have gained considerable working experience in exchange of the time. End of the bond, there is no rewards or anything. I suffered for almost 2 years due to their judgement on my poor work performance. I couldn't even leave or resign because the liquidated charges will be imposed on me. Till one day, they decided to release me without me paying any single cent. This is madness! From then on, I am extremely skeptical and wary about bonds, especially issues connected to the government organisations.

I agree, there is too many T&C. One of the other thing that made me question the whole program was that one of the candidates I was with, mentioned a friend signed up for PCP-RN too but failed. The parents had to sell their house to help her pay back the LD.

I think that was the thing that stuck to me the most. That your poor parents are stuck with a bad decision you made

[Jokanga]

zidmosby wrote:

Hi all, just wanted to add in my two cents.

To be honest, I applied for PCP-RN as an "easy" way out of unemployment. However I did do ample research and asked many current nurses on their honest opinion on their jobs. I wanted to make an informed decision before I sign contract (if I was selected) despite needing a flow of income badly.

The interview process is as followed:

1. Group to be in a holding room
2. Group briefing by MOH personnel
3. Panel interview individually

While in the holding room, I chatted with a few other candidates - some were like me who were hoping to secure stability and some claimed to pursue their nursing passion.

Just out of curiosity, for any nurses who are reading this, I am not sure how one wakes up and knows instantly they want to embark in this career, or any other career for that matter. I am really quite interested to know how the passion sparked and if that passion sustains over time? For those that joined PCP, would you still look for other ways to join nursing if the PCP did not exist, or would you just drop the idea?

Continuing on. We went into the briefing and they informed us of several things:

1. To be fully aware that PCP requires 101% commitment from each candidate due to the accelerated coursework. They showed us a sample of our schedule for the next two years in tiny fonts - think of it as a show and tell session rather than us actually being able to see the paper and absorb the information. They did highlight that we will have very little time and to inform our family/spouses/children to understand that PCP comes first.

2. They then mentioned that the reason PCP has to come first is because of the LD that incurs. They phrased it in such a way that it is in everybody's best interest for the candidate to put PCP first so that everyone wins, in the sense that candidates do not incur LD and the employer gets a candidate by the time graduation has occurred.

3. During this time, it was then informed that should a candidate fail a module, repayment fee is the candidate's responsibility and sponsors will not pay you allowance for the term extension. At any point of time, you may get a letter saying that they will no longer need you to participate in this program. Even if this was their choice, you are still liable for LD.

4. They did tell us of a few candidates that dropped out due to their own personal commitment and/or those who were unable to cope with the accelerated version and are now in high debt. I would like to point that the way they mentioned this was in a very "matter of fact" way and with little to no sympathy. I asked on the candidate drop out rate and they seemed very hesitant to inform this but mentioned it was around 20% or 5 pax per intake.

5. Your actual salary after graduation is subjected to the sponsoring companies. Which means that you may or may not get lesser but they were upfront to mention that usually candidates can be around the $2000-$2200 range but again, graduate first and then see what you are offered. But if you think again, you don't really have a say. You sign the PCP contract, you just have to serve it out and seek better employment after that.

Next, we went into another holding room and wait to be called for panel interview. I would note that most are young students rather than actual mid career switchers. When I was called in, here was my experience:

1. They did not like my resume. They questioned why my qualifications are different than the jobs I have worked. This was apparently a concern for them as if I commit to PCP, the next 5 years is in a specified field and they felt that my employment record is a liability and it indicated I am unable to stick to a field.

2. They asked if I knew anything about nursing. I told them that I have asked others on their experience. They somehow took offence to this and said that no matter how many people I ask, I still will not know the exact job scope a nurse does through everyday. I told them that it is impossible for me to know exactly what a nurse goes through for the simple fact that I am not a nurse! That is where the two years study and clinical placement comes in to help me transition. They told me to volunteer in nursing homes and help clean patients etc to get a feel of what nurses to. I told them I was unaware of such programmes i.e. letting a volunteer with no professional qualification to help care for a patient. It's a lawsuit waiting to happen if this really exists!

3. They noted that I have employer testimonials and I said that I had close relationships with all my superiors and that this bond has enabled me to grow and develop my potential in each workplace. They did not like this as they said that to be a nurse, patients come first. In their words, "you cannot run to your supervisor to everything".

4. When they asked if I had any questions, I asked what was the support for nurses who wanted to further their studies as I understand nurses need to work long hours/shift. They answered accordingly but made a point to tell me that this question signifies I place an importance on myself rather than my patients and that was unacceptable.

All in all, they basically did not like that I was not a fresh faced graduate

I suppose they were looking for people who could just bow down to what they wanted to enforce and not talk back if there was unfairness happening. As you can tell, I obviously did not get into the program. I actually got into a different PCP which was more of OJT rather than "study first, work later". I enjoyed myself very much and it opened up more doors for me after I completed it.

To those that are thinking of going for the "study first, work later" kind of PCP, I would encourage you to do a thorough research on the career you want and if you can cope with the pressure. It is a good program on paper but the reality of it may or may not be just as great. Of course your own commitment is a factor, but ultimately I would just suggest for those interested to think first on how you will pay back the LD before you sign up. If you have nothing to lose, go for it.

Hi, for the PCP, did they call or email you to inform that you have gotten an interview?
Do you mind sharing which PCP you are in now?
And if it is not study first followed by working, then how does it work, meaning you are working and studying at the same time for the PCP programme that you are doing?

[Kyoji83]

I answer what I can before zidmosby reply you.

Jokanga wrote:

Hi, for the PCP, did they call or email you to inform that you have gotten an interview?

They will call you first to arrange interview date and time before they email you the detail.

Jokanga wrote:

Do you mind sharing which PCP you are in now?

For me, I was from PCP-RN.

Jokanga wrote:

And if it is not study first followed by working, then how does it work, meaning you are working and studying at the same time for the PCP programme that you are doing?

No way you can work first or work and study concurrently because you are not competent to work yet cause you do not have the practicing certificate.

You will study full time and part of the course are clinical placement (industry attachment) which you will 'OJT' as a Student taking care of real patients.

[zidmosby]

Jokanga wrote:

Hi, for the PCP, did they call or email you to inform that you have gotten an interview?
Do you mind sharing which PCP you are in now?
And if it is not study first followed by working, then how does it work, meaning you are working and studying at the same time for the PCP programme that you are doing?

Hi hi, sorry I did not realise there was a message posted. In case you're still looking for answers (and thanks kyoji for your two cents too )

They called me first to inform that I have been shortlisted for an interview, and this was followed up with an email for interview details.

I did not get into nursing PCP. The one I shared was merely my interview experience. I got into a different PCP program for an executive role for a non profit industry. It was via direct hire, no bonds involved though I was contracted for 1 year role.

There are many different PCP. Every program will be different. Some are on the job training (which was the one I was doing), some are study first work later like nursing. I can't tell you everything on behalf of WSG as my information might be wrong, but if you take some time to browse through their website thoroughly, the information should be there.

[menageatrois]

inzpiral88 wrote:

Come to think about all the sponsored PCP programmes, assuming you are the sponsored companies, will you let these trained professionals leave the country or to jump ship from one hospitals to another after serving their bonds?

I thought such programmes are great for anyone who is serious to consider a second career option. It may be the case at a first glance. Unfortunately, there seems to be a lot of underlying terms and conditions, clauses and unclear corners that are not seen easily.

I had once signed a bond with a company for 2 years. Reason being of such bond is that you work in their organisation, you have gained considerable working experience in exchange of the time. End of the bond, there is no rewards or anything. I suffered for almost 2 years due to their judgement on my poor work performance. I couldn't even leave or resign because the liquidated charges will be imposed on me. Till one day, they decided to release me without me paying any single cent. This is madness! From then on, I am extremely skeptical and wary about bonds, especially issues connected to the government organisations.

this is bad. even internship got pay and u take diploma/degree programme at least u got cert.

[stphl1304]

Can share the timeline?
and what is to be expected?

[Kyoji83]

What kind of timeline do you mean?

stphl1304 wrote:

Can share the timeline?
and what is to be expected?

[Ldm2612]

Hi, can i check ended up how much did u pay back?
What if cant pay back what will they do?

[Kyoji83]

Ldm2612 wrote:

Hi, can i check ended up how much did u pay back?

I already share the range as per previous post. Totally no discount as all.

Ldm2612 wrote:

What if cant pay back what will they do?

A Bankruptcy Application is filed for you in the High Court by your sponsoring hospital if you do not do so.

[Ldm2612]

i am considering of joining, but quite afraid i cant pass. base on your breakdown sum, i pretty sure i cant afford to pay it off. Any advise. haii

[zidmosby]

Ldm2612 wrote:

i am considering of joining, but quite afraid i cant pass. base on your breakdown sum, i pretty sure i cant afford to pay it off. Any advise. haii

Do you have passion? Are you single with no family commitment or other commitments (etc current medical issue or existing loans)? If yes to both, just apply and see if you even get through lor. You have nothing to lose up until they ask you to sign contract.

[Ldm2612]

passion currently yes, i used to work in hospital on equipment stuff.

Yea single with no liability, but i know myself i not the best studious person. neither i want to declare for bankruptcy, i cant imagine not to travel freely.

yea will try to apply till signing will discuss with my parents.