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Old 08-07-2017, 06:35 PM   #196
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All these filters are just " Gimmick gadget "

some claim wow drink the plain water like got " a flavour feel very clean " actually u are drinking more toxic ....u never know the filter side got what also

next u also need to change the filter , NOT just oh I buy , install Forever use , no need maintenance.

You need to change the filter after certain period of usage.


THE BEST nature way still BOIL water ..simple as that.

Already touched on all these points earlier.

That is why you look for the NSF 42 and NSF 53 certifications. NSF 42 for material safety, NSF 53 for the contamination reduction testing.

And then go Amazon for the deals. For the dupont that i listed before, it's like $2 per month cost for a typical family for every 4 months change. Way cheaper than even a packet of chicken rice.

There is indeed a drawback for solid carbon blocks, they do breed bacteria after some months (that's why they advertise 3 to 6 months changes). This is regardless if the XXX gallons capacity has been hit or not. That is why the manufacturers lists it as say 500 gallons OR 6 mths whichever comes earlier.
If you are going to boilng the water after filtration (or hit 80 deg C, still ok), then definitely no issue.
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Old 08-07-2017, 06:36 PM   #197
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Boiling only kills bacteria.


summary kinda " Gimmick "

if so like that all SG guys now can prepare to RIP ....

in Army just drink from Tap ..
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Old 08-07-2017, 06:36 PM   #198
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actually why no one or water filter supplier challenge PUB if they feel strongly water from tap is unsafe?
What talking you? Challenge PUB equals challenge government, you say leh? Which company don't wanna do business anymore?
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Old 08-07-2017, 06:37 PM   #199
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actually why no one or water filter supplier challenge PUB if they feel strongly water from tap is unsafe?
Nobody is challenging PUB. The water supplied is safe. The water quality reports say so. I don't think this point has been challenged before anyway, definitely not by me.
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Old 08-07-2017, 06:40 PM   #200
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Already touched on all these points earlier.

That is why you look for the NSF 42 and NSF 53 certifications. NSF 42 for material safety, NSF 53 for the contamination reduction testing.

And then go Amazon for the deals. For the dupont that i listed before, it's like $2 per month cost for a typical family for every 4 months change. Way cheaper than even a packet of chicken rice.

There is indeed a drawback for solid carbon blocks, they do breed bacteria after some months (that's why they advertise 3 to 6 months changes). This is regardless if the XXX gallons capacity has been hit or not. That is why the manufacturers lists it as say 500 gallons OR 6 mths whichever comes earlier.
If you are going to boilng the water after filtration (or hit 80 deg C, still ok), then definitely no issue.
This thing already selling for many donkey years. " subjective " that why they still selling. I still remember PUB claim our water is SAFE simple as that.


Now some manufacture make it simple , just a filter attach to the Tap , whereas some you need the tech come to install , a device below the water tap and attached to the device aka filtration

anyway to me, Boil water is good enough.

PUB side already does filtration. I feel now a days funny. We care so much cleanliness here and that yet eat unhealthy what the point
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Old 08-07-2017, 06:44 PM   #201
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What talking you? Challenge PUB equals challenge government, you say leh? Which company don't wanna do business anymore?
i mean, their sales pitch is always water from tap have this and that minerals/contents that are harmful to body. In a way, they are saying the quality of water from tap is harmful to human. Since they can make this statement why not challenge PUB then?
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Old 08-07-2017, 07:08 PM   #202
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i mean, their sales pitch is always water from tap have this and that minerals/contents that are harmful to body. In a way, they are saying the quality of water from tap is harmful to human. Since they can make this statement why not challenge PUB then?
I think i can make my point to be clearer by re-posting the below.
There is nothing wrong with the incoming PUB water and they do test at multiple points and probably right up to the tanks.
It really depends on what are you using at home, right till the faucet end.

If you are talking about taking a sip of water from the toilet tap/kitchen faucet which is brass based (look at the connections that's under the sink, some are made of brass) by a kid who is thirsty right in the middle of the night (standing water in the pumbling), then i'd seriously not recommend that.

snip....

PUB side already does filtration. I feel now a days funny. We care so much cleanliness here and that yet eat unhealthy what the point
Really nothing to do with cleanliness or unhealthiness leh. See below....
Though for you as an adult and single, that might not be too much of an issue (the levels are not super duper high, deifnitely not like some USA's cases), that i'd agree with you that you are not exposed to much risks/effects.
For infants/kids/teens, the main risk is lowered IQ first and foremost. It's been researched that every 10 ppm lead intake reduces IQ points of about 2. Does this reduced IQ make you get lower grades/earn less money in your adulthood? That's for another thread.





Came across this very good article.

Done in Singapore with pumbling stuff that are available here in SG (all are PUB approved stuff), simulating end-users taps' conditions.
Received: 12 December 2015; Accepted: 23 February 2016; Published: 27 February 2016




www.mdpi.com/1660-4601/13/3/266/pdf



2.1. Simulated Premise Plumbing System
To determine whether lead contamination in drinking water will occur in a “lead-free” premise plumbing system, a typical premise system was built using locally (Singapore) purchased materials as shown in Figure 1.
In Singapore, all water fittings used shall conform with the standards and requirements stipulated by the Public Utilities Board (PUB) and their use shall conform to the Public Utilities (Water Supply) Regulations and Singapore Standard Code of Practice (CP) 48. A water fitting shall be deemed to comply with the stipulated standards if it is certified by an accredited product certification body. The maximum allowable concentrations of metals leached shall not exceed the limits specified by the WHO Guidelines for Drinking Water Quality [28,29]. Copper pipes and brass fittings used in this study were microwave-digested and measured for lead content, and results showed that their lead content was <0.25% by weight, and thus can be considered “lead-free” according to the last “lead-free” definition by USEPA.


Residents moving into new buildings or renovating their plumbing systems are potentially at risk of lead contamination in their drinking water. Lead contamination due to the presence of a lead source is expected to persist for as long as many years if the situation is left untreated or the system is left untouched.


“Lead-free” brass fittings were identified as the source of lead contamination.


The system was assembled in the laboratory using all-new plumbing materials
and only certified copper pipes, brass fittings and stainless steel taps were used without any tapes, sealants and solders that may be present in field sampling. Many studies in the literature used either relatively short lengths of pipe (3 m) or single fittings to represent real distribution systems, while this study is specifically designed to represent real premise plumbing systems that use copper pipes.

The long experimental period allows us to show that lead contamination can be persistent in premise distribution systems and helps to fill the knowledge gap in the existing literature.


Acknowledgments: The authors thank the Singapore Ministry of Education (project number R-302-000-049-112) and National Taiwan University (grant number NTUCDP-103R7877) for financial support.
Author Contributions: Yi-Pin Lin and Ding-Quan Ng conceived and designed the experiments




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Old 08-07-2017, 07:17 PM   #203
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Repost.......

This is a very interesting read. It's not meant to fear-monger, but to provide more knowledge. For adults, maybe it's not that big a deal, but for infants all the way to young teenagers, it might affect them to a much bigger extent.


https://www.sciencenews.org/blog/sci...s-are-anything

Lead-free? Faucets are anything but

BY JANET RALOFF 3:48PM, OCTOBER 30, 2008



Caroline Elfland began receiving complaints soon after researchers started occupying one of a pair of brand new buildings on the University of North Carolina campus, almost two years ago. People said the water tasted funny — as in bad. To ferret out the source of the noxious taste, this associate vice chancellor directed all sorts of probes into the new facilities’ construction, into water entering the buildings from mains in the street, and of course into plumbing materials.

Within several months, these investigations uncovered a nasty surprise — one that would ultimately prove unrelated to the taste problem. Faucets throughout both buildings in the $100 million science complex — along with those in an equally new building elsewhere on campus — were dispensing water heavily contaminated with lead, a toxic heavy metal.

“These were brand new buildings,” Elfland emphasizes. “They had no lead solder. No lead pipes. How could this be?” The water utility couldn’t be blamed; its supplies were lead-free.

The investigations Elfland triggered would ultimately indict new “lead-free” faucets. These weren’t weird faucets. Or foreign counterfeit fixtures. Or in any way unusual. They’re the same types and brands of faucets used throughout American homes, businesses and schools.

Elfland is coauthoring a paper describing this nightmarish case study for an American Water Works Association specialty conference in about two weeks.

The Environmental Protection Agency requires that action be taken to reduce lead in drinking water when concentrations reach 15 parts per billion. Values associated with every tap in the new UNC buildings exceeded that. Sometimes by a factor of 10. In the worst case: Drinking water carried 1,200 ppb lead.

As word got out, Elfland recalls people were starting to panic. “I had pregnant post-doctoral fellows asking me: ‘Have I been drinking lead in water?’”

Eager to get to the heart of the problem, Elfland asked her school’s engineering faculty for guidance. And they said: “We have two words for you — Marc Edwards.” The Virginia Tech engineering professor has a reputation for solving challenging water-quality puzzles.

That was 18 months ago.

Edwards quickly traced the problem to the buildings’ faucets and water fountains. Or, more precisely, to the fixtures’ brass.

Commercial and almost all home drinking-water fixtures are made from brass, even if they carry a plated veneer of chrome, nickel or brushed aluminum. In the United States, that brass can contain up to 8 percent lead — as long as it doesn’t leach more than 11 ppb of the metal into drinking water.

The problem, Edwards — and now UNC — has found: The standard recipe for the water used to evaluate how much lead will leach from a brass fixture is remarkably tame. Think of it as crash testing a car by running it into a pile of pillows. Of course it won’t sustain damage. Contends Edwards, the water that the plumbing industry uses to evaluate lead leaching similarly offers an easy test for most brass fixtures to pass.

In the real world, however, as in UNC’s new research buildings, these fixtures can fail the lead-leaching test. Big time.

The good news: Serious lead leaching doesn’t tend to continue forever. Over time, the brass tends to develop a sheath of rust and chemicals that will retard the toxic metal’s escape. How long it takes for the leach-inhibiting coating to develop depends on the recipe of the local water and the lead content of the fixtures.

In UNC’s case, the water had a low concentration of sodium-bicarbonate (what we know of as baking soda). And that’s too bad, since that bicarbonate would have helped to quickly coat the brass surface. The local water was also disinfected with chloramine, not chlorine. Another problem since chlorine tends to retard lead leaching, Edwards says. For reasons that have yet to emerge, he notes, chloramine-treated water doesn’t.

So is there something anomalous about water serving the Chapel Hill, N.C., campus? Not really, Edwards says. “We’re not seeing this more because we haven’t been looking.” People seldom test for lead in new buildings. “If they did,” he told me, “I think they’d find it in a surprising number of locations.”

Based on the specific chemical makeup of UNC’s water, lead-leaching from new faucets normally takes about six months to naturally abate, Elfland found.

Edwards designed a simple means to accelerate the process. Run every faucet in a new building at full throttle for 10 minutes, then crank the flow rate down to a trickle and let the water continue running from every faucet for the next three days. Following this conditioning protocol, 99 percent of UNC’s new faucets met the EPA lead standard.

While effective, this procedure proved time consuming and costly. Water had to be sampled from every fixture, and then sent to an EPA-certified lab for testing. “In round numbers,” Elfland has calculated, “this comes to about $100 a tap.”

And that’s not the end of it. Aerators and sieves collect debris at the end of a faucet or right inside the top of the fountains. And surprisingly, Edwards found at UNC, much of that debris consists of lead. Indeed, some collectors accumulated astounding amounts of corrosion debris and lead after just the conditioning treatments.

So each treated fixture must to be opened and cleaned out. If you don’t do that, Elfland warns, the exiting water will just wash over those particles — grinding them down (and into your water glass) or just leaching out much of their lead. This could cause the lead-poisoning risk to persist months or more after the fixtures’ brass has all but shut down its leaching.

“If I could find a faucet or water fountain made with no lead, even if it cost $50 more per faucet, I’d buy them,” Elfland says. In the end, they’d cost her less.

So, I asked her, have you identified such faucets? “Uh, no,” she says. And she’s looked — high and low. For more on the depressing information she and Edwards turned up during that search, check back for tomorrow’s blog.
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Old 08-07-2017, 07:29 PM   #204
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snip....

PUB side already does filtration. I feel now a days funny. We care so much cleanliness here and that yet eat unhealthy what the point


Really nothing to do with cleanliness or unhealthiness leh. See below....
Though for you as an adult and single, that might not be too much of an issue (the levels are not super duper high, deifnitely not like some USA's cases), that i'd agree with you that you are not exposed to much risks/effects.
For infants/kids/teens, the main risk is lowered IQ first and foremost. It's been researched that every 10 ppm lead intake reduces IQ points of about 2. Does this reduced IQ make you get lower grades/earn less money in your adulthood? That's for another thread.

Ok, after thinking for a while....I must admit that maybe Foreveralone bro has a bit of a point there.

For those toddlers/kids/children who have a screwy diet, i guess it similarly might affect their IQ as well? Possible i guess.
In the context of Singapore, i guess the vast majority of that is not the case, probably. Malnutrition is really rare here.....but maybe extreme obesity may also screw up IQ? Need to google for that one....
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Old 08-07-2017, 10:06 PM   #205
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I think i can make my point to be clearer by re-posting the below.
There is nothing wrong with the incoming PUB water and they do test at multiple points and probably right up to the tanks.
It really depends on what are you using at home, right till the faucet end.
you can request for water quality test from water taken from your tap.
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Old 08-07-2017, 10:34 PM   #206
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http://solutions.3m.com.sg/wps/porta...aterDispenser/

anyone using this?

can review? now promo at $1488
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Old 09-07-2017, 10:52 AM   #207
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you can request for water quality test from water taken from your tap.
You probably can email/request it, not sure if they will do it or not though. You may also do your own private testing (soluble lead) on your own via a private lab.

But lets assume that the request to test for soluble lead can be granted.....but note, that is only for 1 instance at that point in time. That particular NUS research that i posted was testing for 480+ days.
So is that useful data esp if it turns out to be right at around WHO's limit?



But seriously even if it comes up to be 20ppm due to you doing an acid test and specifically used overnight standing water from the faucet, so what..... it's not under PUB's purview that they be responsible for what your contractor used or what someone unknowingly buys from Taobao or unapproved normal brass fittings from your local mama shop anyway. It's really not their problem or responsibility, is it? Doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

If you had taken time to read the NUS research which has already been done (recently) over a very long period of time, you'd know that the data is worth much more than the typical 1 or even few times testing that generally could be done.




Reposting summary again of the NUS research with specifically lead-free brass fittings that was done over a long period of > 1 year (not normal brass) :

2.1. Simulated Premise Plumbing System
To determine whether lead contamination in drinking water will occur in a “lead-free” premise plumbing system, a typical premise system was built using locally (Singapore) purchased materials as shown in Figure 1.
In Singapore, all water fittings used shall conform with the standards and requirements stipulated by the Public Utilities Board (PUB) and their use shall conform to the Public Utilities (Water Supply) Regulations and Singapore Standard Code of Practice (CP) 48. A water fitting shall be deemed to comply with the stipulated standards if it is certified by an accredited product certification body. The maximum allowable concentrations of metals leached shall not exceed the limits specified by the WHO Guidelines for Drinking Water Quality [28,29]. Copper pipes and brass fittings used in this study were microwave-digested and measured for lead content, and results showed that their lead content was <0.25% by weight, and thus can be considered “lead-free” according to the last “lead-free” definition by USEPA.


Residents moving into new buildings or renovating their plumbing systems are potentially at risk of lead contamination in their drinking water. Lead contamination due to the presence of a lead source is expected to persist for as long as many years if the situation is left untreated or the system is left untouched.


“Lead-free” brass fittings were identified as the source of lead contamination.


The system was assembled in the laboratory using all-new plumbing materials
and only certified copper pipes, brass fittings and stainless steel taps were used without any tapes, sealants and solders that may be present in field sampling. Many studies in the literature used either relatively short lengths of pipe (3 m) or single fittings to represent real distribution systems, while this study is specifically designed to represent real premise plumbing systems that use copper pipes.

The long experimental period allows us to show that lead contamination can be persistent in premise distribution systems and helps to fill the knowledge gap in the existing literature.


Acknowledgments: The authors thank the Singapore Ministry of Education (project number R-302-000-049-112) and National Taiwan University (grant number NTUCDP-103R7877) for financial support.
Author Contributions: Yi-Pin Lin and Ding-Quan Ng conceived and designed the experiments
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Old 09-07-2017, 10:54 AM   #208
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Water from tap is safe. Unless you stay in woodlands at the block where the Bangla, raped and dumped a maid into the water tank.

Pity those folks who drank the water... 😇
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Old 09-07-2017, 11:11 AM   #209
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Anyone using the Hyflux water filter ?
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Old 09-07-2017, 11:38 AM   #210
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One thing i am wondering is if it's even possible to test all the tens of thousands of buildings in SG, right down to control what people are able to use in their homes and control what people buy.

Evidently with the recent clampdown of EZBuy's sale of China's electrical items due to them not having the PSB sticker and/or PSB safety label, i think it's not so easy.
That one was pretty easy coz we already have the PSB safety label system (for 3-pin plugs) in place, so the reason to stop the import is easy and fast.


http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/...aminat-8242934

HK govt holding main contractors responsible for lead contamination in water
Read more at http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/...aminat-8242934

Chan Kin-Man, chief chemist at the Hong Kong Water Supplies Department, said: "There's no lead found in the test sample because we have quality control. We do periodically conduct checks in different locations, but the last mile to new buildings is handled by our customer services department. It's not under our supervision."
The government has yet to identify the source of the contamination. But attention is on the pipes and faucets used, as well as whether banned soldering material was used.




----------------------------------

Anyone using the Hyflux water filter ?
http://solutions.3m.com.sg/wps/porta...aterDispenser/

anyone using this?

can review? now promo at $1488

Really too expensive stuff......if you are earning good and have the budget for it, i guess why not.
But from what i have read up on, really no need, unless you really have some very specific need for it (earlier someone shared that the water quality in their commercial building is really nasty).

And it's always better to change the filter quite frequently, unless you boil the water, so as to prevent bacteria growth on the filter in which solid carbon blocks are quite well known to do so. So recurrent filter costs is a factor.
I guess if you have ultrafiltration that's "behind" the carbon block, then at least something.

I have earlier shared some stuff earlier that does the job and go for much lower prices + very low recurring costs (filter). Pls avoid the MLM stuff esp (not saying 3M/Hyflux is MLM though), it's really not a good usage of your funds.
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