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Old 15-06-2017, 10:37 PM   #106
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Ramster is correct. Water with very low TDS is not really good for you and your kids over the very long term. That is esp if your diet is sucky to begin with with insufficient calcium/magnesium mainly (there are other things like bicarbonates in the water.....just google it up). We do not have many nanofiltration devices in the market (only saw some Haier stuff using that) but RO is not uncommon, some pax i guess could even be using distillers. The WHO article he posted says it all.

Ultrafiltration is fine, that's the 0.01 microns stuff. Their pore size cannot remove ions in the water. Basically just filters your bacteria and most viruses, which would be handled by boiling. Anyway they are not a big concern with PUB water.

Anyway, it's mentioned that we have desalinated and Newater (RO water basically) here in SG, which has close to zero TDS. But don't worry, PUB mixes it with our regular treated reservoir water before pumping to our homes, usually we get like 40-80 ppm TDS in our homes.





4) Filtration ability for the lifetime of the filter. If they claim 3000 litres, I would want to know the quality of my water after 3000 litres. When used beyond the recommended range, some filters start to dirty your water by releasing the contaminants in the filter back into your water, making it worse than without a filter. I like to be safe from the 1st to the last drop. If a company is good, they should dare publish the results after 3000 litres not just when the filter is brand new.
This is a good question. In case anyone is wondering, if it's NSF-53 certified for say lead, mercury etc @ 99% for 100 gallons, you can be sure that it does that. Coz NSF-53 have a very good buffer margin to allow for many factors like manufacturing variances.
The USA NSF certification is legit, really not "anyhow" one. And it costs the companies quite a fair bit of $$$ to test, so usually the smaller companies serving smaller markets usually do not try to attain that NSF certification.
And their big brands can do just that, coz the USA water filter/treatment market is worth well over USD 10 billion annually now.


2. When NSF rates capacity – how many gallons the filter is “good” for – it means that after the rated number of gallons the filter is still able to remove 200% (twice as much) of all the claimed contaminants. That doesn’t mean that the filter is only good for that amount of water. It means that according to NSF testing protocol, after the stated number of gallons passes though the filter, it begins to lose its capacity to take out twice as much as claimed of that one contaminant that presents the greatest challenge.

3. Just because a contaminant isn’t NSF-certified for reduction does not mean that the contaminant is not taken out. Manufacturers know, for example, that the same filtration media used to reduce VOCs works for THMs. VOC reduction is actually harder to achieve, so a company may elect to pay NSF only for the tougher VOC certification on the valid assumption that the product is just as effective (if not more so) against THMs.

The public generally doesn’t know this, of course. So in New York City, for instance, where the water supply almost always has THMs but never VOCs, a filter listed for NSF-certified VOC (but not THM) reduction really means that you are getting both.

4. Why do we use the word “reduction” instead of “removal”? Because NSF doesn’t like “remove” – they use “reduce”. We want to comply with their terms. And technically, they are right. Taking contaminants out of water is always about probabilities, percentages. Nothing can be assured 100%. Whether it says “removes 99.99%” or “reduces by 99.99%” doesn’t matter. Both mean the same thing.
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Old 15-06-2017, 10:38 PM   #107
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Chlorine (ie Free chlorine), usually you won't get much of it at our tap end. Coz they are not very stable. What we are using that is much more stable and can persist till our end user taps is monochloramine. You can buy Total Chlorine test strips/test solutions which test for Chlorine + chloramines as a whole. Free Chlorine = Chlorine only.


You can find the monochloramine data for our PUB water here.
https://www.pub.gov.sg/watersupply/w.../drinkingwater
2016 report : https://www.pub.gov.sg/Documents/WQ2016.pdf


Monochloramine is formed by the reaction of ammonia + chlorine, it's much more stable than chlorine and can persist in the water much longer, just google it up.....all the info is there. Along the way in our water distribution systems, it may change and exist as dichloramine or trichloramine....so usually we just say that chloramine is present (chloramine means monochloramine, dichloramine, trichloramine, or any mix of the 3)
Chloramines are quite a bit harder to filter out than chlorine by using activated carbon, but still most solid carbon blocks would do a good job.

No real issue here anyway, personal choice if you wanna filter it out or not, but basically any proper water filter with properly engineered flow rates can handle (you can manually turn the flowrate down so that it performs even better).
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Old 15-06-2017, 10:39 PM   #108
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You guys can actually get cheap and good stuff from Amazon.

For NSF-53 certified lead reduction stuff, go search the following products....i share the below list just to start you off.
If you own a present water filter, it might be already be reducing lead....but i do not research on those stuff like Hyflux, Novita, Evopure, Cleansui etc.
Eg the Instapure F8 that some of you may have purchased from Self-fix can handle lead and is NSF-53 tested. (Instapure F8 used to be available on Amazon too).


100 gallons = 378 litres
Search on Amazon.com (read the reviews)
-Culligan FM-15 (uses 200 gal 756L cartridge)
-Dupont faucet filters (various models, 100 gal or 200 gal cartridge)
-Pur advanced faucet filters (100 gal)
-Brita faucet filter (100 gal)
-Aquasana AQ-4000 countertop filter (450 gal)
All the above contain very high quality highly spec solid carbon block filters that take care of many of the contaminants. Size of the product does not determine whether or not the filter is better. The only issue with the above is that the xxx number of gallons filtered is lower than the bigger filters (eg the 10-inch canister filters).

Do not be misled and think that ultrafiltration (0.01 microns) would take care of lead for example, it would not. An RO system would take care of soluble lead, yes that is true (however RO has its disadvantages).
And not all solid carbon block filters/granular activated carbon filters can reduce for eg soluble lead to a level that you'd care for (eg > 99%), though most do reduce to X amount and are effective to a certain degree, just that it's not certified and thus difficult to ascertain any reliable technical performance info.


For more advanced users, you can try the catridges or 10-inch solid carbon blocks with DIY 10-inch canisters. If really hardcore and kiasu, can try 20-inch canisters for the whole house, use some excellent chlorine/chloramine filter like some of the aquarium reef hobby solid carbon block filters which actually work much better than the consumer stuff that we get.
The 10-inch filter canisters are available from Taobao or Amazon, see which one you are more comfortable with.
Do note that the solid carbon blocks need to be NSF-53 certified. (not only NSF-42 certified, which is for safety of the materials used)


- 3M Filtrete Under Sink Water Filtration System (3US-MAX-S01). 1500 gals 5670 litres. Probably better for those big families and also intends to use filtered water (no chlorine/chloramines) for washing their veg etc.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...=ATVPDKIKX0DER
...it uses 3/8 inch 3分管 so you might need to go taobao and get your own hoses to convert to 2分 coz Taobao sells the 2分

Tap diverter.
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm...id=41209541438
配件2分双切转换器龙头接头 双切 (search for similar terms, you will get results from other sellers)




Just for additional info, i think the majority of us Singaporeans would not DIY
Some 10-inch filters, all are solid carbon blocks
Pentek P-250 Under Sink Water Filter Set by Pentek (1000 gals)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...=ATVPDKIKX0DER

DuPont WFDWC70001 Universal Drinking Water 550-Gallon Carbon Block Cartridge by DuPont
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...=ATVPDKIKX0DER

GE FXULC Drinking Water System Replacement Filter (600 gals)
https://www.amazon.com/GE-FXULC-Drin...lter+cartridge
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Old 16-06-2017, 09:55 AM   #109
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Just to give a full summary of the shared info :


- RO systems (0.0001 microns) might get the TDS or Total Dissolved Solids to too low a concentration for drinking. Some systems which does ion-exchange resins filtration (eg Zerowater) might also get it a wee bit too low. WHO and other organisations have put warned about the long term health risks regarding this. When such overly soft ultra low TDS water is used in cooking, it's been found that micronutrients loss from the food is quite high.
http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_...entschap12.pdf

It's probably not a big problem for most of us, but it's good to be mindful, as different people different health and different diets/intake of micronutrients.



- As far as i know, the only health risk is with lead leached from brass plumbing, even the "lead-free" versions that's sourced locally conforming to PUB regulations and standard code of practice are still found to be leaching lead somewhat. It exists in both insoluble form as particulates as well as soluble form as a heavy metal ion. Some people may want to filter chlorine and chloramines too, that's fine as it usually improves taste. A solid carbon block or even GAC (granular activated charcoal) filter improves the taste and can reduce chlorine/chloramines. As far as possible, keep the flowrate down as it helps performance as well as filter life. At our end users tap, we might have somewhat higher levels of Cu from the indoor copper pipes (if that's being used by your plumber, but not necessarily so). But that's usually ok as it only presents an issue at very high concentrations. As we are not an agricultural country here, i don't think we have herbicides risks, nor do we have risks like mercury, arsenic etc.


- for Iron oxide (the brown stuff) particulates, it's easily taken care by even a 1 micron PP sediment filter. Your 0.5 microns solid carbon block easily provides mechanical filtration for it.
You do not need a RO or even ultrafiltration (0.01 microns) for this, just totally unnecessary. UF might filter most of the viruses out there, but the thing is that our chloramine in the water does have much better persistence than chlorine in our pipes and it does keep the water safe enough to drink. And anyway it may be better to boil the water still, just in case you have secondary biological contamination due to bacteria biofilm growing on the post filter surfaces. (not necessary if you change your filter regularly as recommended by the manufacturers). All surfaces that are usually kept wet have such risks, not rocket science.
Ultrafiltration 0.01 microns does not filter soluble lead, the lead dissolved in water as an ion. You'd need RO 0.0001 microns for that as the stuff is just too small. That is also why RO systems reduce the TDS by a lot, by name it already says it, Total DISSOLVED Solids.


- It's best to have NSF/ANSI certification for the product that you are getting. Usually NSF/ANSI 53 is the standard that you are looking for (not NSF 41 which is only for material safety). NSF/ANSI 401 is not necessary, testing for emerging contaminants. A rare few are tested by the WQA, that's fine too. Look for lead reduction specifically, for NSF 53 standard it's very tight, it states a minimum of 99% reduction and at twice the rated volume spec i think (for buffer), so if for a say 100 gallon/378 litre catridge, you are very safe even when you are using till 350-400 litres range.


- NSF certified devices are not expensive. Eg the cheapest NSF 53 device that i could find is the Dupont premier water faucet filter on Amazon. It's usd 13 for the device which comes with 1 filter. Filter replacements are at usd 16.99 for a 3 pack of 100 gal rated cartridges.
If you are changing at a frequency of one cartridge every 3 months (378 litres every 3 months, you can do 3.78 litres of water daily, shd be enough even for a 4 pax family unless all are staying at home and not working/schooling), the cost is just 8 Singapore cents per day. Assuming that you are taking advantage of Amazon's usd 125 free shipping Free AmazonGlobal shipping.


- The size of the filter device or filter cartridge usually does not determine filtration performance. To a certain extent, it might determine the capacity of water filtered. I feel that this is important to point out, a small tap faucet filter could easily outperform the lower tier undersink 10-12 inch cartridges systems. This is due to the many different qualities of solid carbon blocks.
However, some people may have issues with faucet filters relatively low flowrates.
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Old 16-06-2017, 10:03 AM   #110
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Using Brita filters for the taste more than anything
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Old 16-06-2017, 10:23 AM   #111
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Using Brita filters for the taste more than anything
For taste, normal GAC granular activated charcoal stuff is more than enough.
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Old 16-06-2017, 02:06 PM   #112
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BTW, if you'd like to extend your filter life capacity for normal solid carbon blocks for chloramine performance, do run as low a flowrate through that as possible.
Chlorine is easy do filter, usually not an issue..

The best would still to run specific solid carbon blocks designed to filter chloramines (those with catalytic activated carbon). Thus, if you wanna do chloramines + lead, then you might need 2 cartridges in your 10-inch DIY canister system.

This is the PUB data for chlorine and chloramine. Note : Usually when the free chlorine hits out homes, most of it would have reacted with the organics in our pipes. So usually we'd have very low levels of chlorine in our pipes. Most of it is chloramines (monchloramine, dichloramine or trichloramine, whatever it has turned into along the way)
The good thing about chloramines is that there is next to no disinfection byproducts.


Those playing with aquariums/reefing would know about this......

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Old 16-06-2017, 02:14 PM   #113
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I am using the Hyflux tape filter...the cylindrical one; not the one that attaches on the tape opening.
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Old 16-06-2017, 02:34 PM   #114
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Those guys (male) that suggested using filters either did not serve NS, or are from MLM.

If Tekong allow us to drink from tap I dont see what other issues are we having.

Also to do marketing, no point go into chemical study or medical research. Unless you got certificate from a reputable Uni.
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Old 16-06-2017, 03:24 PM   #115
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Those guys (male) that suggested using filters either did not serve NS, or are from MLM.

If Tekong allow us to drink from tap I dont see what other issues are we having.

Also to do marketing, no point go into chemical study or medical research. Unless you got certificate from a reputable Uni
.

Wal lao, you didn't read properly and anyhow whack from an ultra narrow POV already.....


1. There is no single MLM product here, no talk about alkaline drinking water etc. OSIM is not MLM. 3M is not MLM. Amazon does not do MLM....
Or if you are saying that i am pushing X or Y products to sell here (i'm a seller), do open your eyes properly.....i will bank transfer you $50 if you find any.
Or maybe you think I am Jeff Bozos of Amazon.

2. As I have mentioned, the filtered water is for things like pregnant women, infants (esp pre-term), or aquarists/reefer/aquarium owner (there's a shrimp rearer in this thread) with low TDS water.
Your brass fittings/faucets might be leaching lead. The recent research with lead leaching is one with publically available home plumbing stuff/faucets in Singapore that's approved locally.
There are also other hobbies that need clean or low TDS water, eg beer brewing, but i reckon that's not popular here in SG.

With that said, if you are a bachelor living alone, don't do reefing/aquarium hobby, or if married but have no issue letting your kids/pregnant wife drinking even ultra low amts of lead, that's your perogative and personal choice, and that's ok.
Other families may not think that way.



If you have constructive replies here, pls do share.
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Old 16-06-2017, 05:39 PM   #116
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anyone using those reverse osmosis water filter installed at undersink? Singapore doesnt have a lot of options on this, so I called a US company and they said for the filter to work properly, there must be a water pressure of at least 40 psi. As we all know, Singapore water pressure not that strong especially for HDB. Anyone has bought such water filter before and is it working effectively? Thanks.
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Old 16-06-2017, 05:40 PM   #117
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I am using the Hyflux tape filter...the cylindrical one; not the one that attaches on the tape opening.
This one?

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Old 16-06-2017, 05:42 PM   #118
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anyone using those reverse osmosis water filter installed at undersink? Singapore doesnt have a lot of options on this, so I called a US company and they said for the filter to work properly, there must be a water pressure of at least 40 psi. As we all know, Singapore water pressure not that strong especially for HDB. Anyone has bought such water filter before and is it working effectively? Thanks.

If you are after a RO system, you might wanna check out the Xiaomi water purifier. I don't know the details as i have not found that out, but they are using a RO member sourced from DOW (USA), i'm not sure how it works but the membrane allows normal pressure + gives a good flow such that you do not need a water storage tank.

And not expensive also.

Safe enough lah.......i know some people have issues with Made in China stuff. Not some unknown tiong brand.
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Old 16-06-2017, 05:48 PM   #119
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anyone using those reverse osmosis water filter installed at undersink? Singapore doesnt have a lot of options on this, so I called a US company and they said for the filter to work properly, there must be a water pressure of at least 40 psi. As we all know, Singapore water pressure not that strong especially for HDB. Anyone has bought such water filter before and is it working effectively? Thanks.
PS. Do note the health risks of drinking lots of demineralized water over a prolonged period esp with a mediocre diet......plus slightly increased leaching of micronutrients from food if such water is used when preparing/cooking food.

http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_...entschap12.pdf
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Old 16-06-2017, 06:02 PM   #120
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If you are after a RO system, you might wanna check out the Xiaomi water purifier. I don't know the details as i have not found that out, but they are using a RO member sourced from DOW (USA), i'm not sure how it works but the membrane allows normal pressure + gives a good flow such that you do not need a water storage tank.

And not expensive also.

Safe enough lah.......i know some people have issues with Made in China stuff. Not some unknown tiong brand.
thanks. Actually those reverse osmosis ones looks heavy duty but is affordable comparatively. It is also highly effective in terms of cleaning. I saw 2 members in this forum who had bought this, I think one from US and the other from China so was wondering does it work with Singapore low water pressure which is lower than most 1st world countries..
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