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Ketogenic diets are, however, a well-established way to help control Type 2 diabetes

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Old 10-10-2018, 06:34 AM   #76
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Hiaz another probable helpful thread becomes a wot again..

Kpc true intentions are driving ppl off keto and lc ba
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Old 10-10-2018, 06:46 AM   #77
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why bother to defend someone's lies n twisted perceptions concerning my mom etc

E.g. Both that troll YL n now Holier than Thou gkhchay too keep maligning me over my mom

As if I want to keep on wasting precious time n energy trying to change a Closed Evil Twisted Mind that Cannot n Won't be changed meh ?
You are not making sense. YL maligned you over your mum, i see you defend yourself about that a lot! I did not see uncle chay malign you over your mum buy i see him disagree with your preferred diet and you defend your diet a lot!

Now, I see someone scolding your mum very stupid... you did not say a single word at all!!! So stop giving me the crap that you got better things to do. You never want to lose an argument. That concern you or your diet. You just simply do not give a shite about your mum
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Old 10-10-2018, 07:03 AM   #78
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You basically nailed the precise true point.

Yup cavemen only eat proteins from animals.
But they never tell you the cavemen also ran, climb, kills and carry the hunted animals. The exercise that cavemen do is also very tough.
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Old 10-10-2018, 07:28 AM   #79
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You basically nailed the precise true point.


Nonsense their life expectancies than was only 30 years.

Compared to now, in the 70s.

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Old 10-10-2018, 07:41 AM   #80
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But back then, it was an extreme low carb diet. They eat meat, verge but carbs are like rice noodles bread etc, they didn’t have the technology to make those.

Also from what I see, if your on a zero to low carb diet but stuffing yourself with proteins and eating fish (I’m sure they had salmon and tuna), the body would naturally start burning off fats from its reserves. But at the expense to lose muscle mass.

But when you exercise or do manual labor, this causes leaner growth.

Nonsense their life expectancies than was only 30 years.

Compared to now, in the 70s.

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Old 10-10-2018, 07:56 AM   #81
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But back then, it was an extreme low carb diet. They eat meat, verge but carbs are like rice noodles bread etc, they didn’t have the technology to make those.

Also from what I see, if your on a zero to low carb diet but stuffing yourself with proteins and eating fish (I’m sure they had salmon and tuna), the body would naturally start burning off fats from its reserves. But at the expense to lose muscle mass.

But when you exercise or do manual labor, this causes leaner growth.


They still died early.

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Old 10-10-2018, 08:55 AM   #82
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See article on this in my Home Cooking thread
Author quotes all relevant parts of that Joint Statement refuting YOUR bias
It is Low Carb Mediterranean btw ...

Also mentioned Moderate Carb did not show benefit at all !!!!!!!
Again twisting words of ADA again.

ADA mentioned 3 trials of Mediterranean diet, of which only 1 trial includes low carb diet. They proceed to describe the LC med result.
Then ADA mentioned meta analysis of the several Mediterranean diet RCTs and come to their conclusion that Mediterranean diets appears to improve gylcemic control best.

They mentioned a study comparing LC(0-26%) vs (27-45%), posting the benefit of LC at glycemic control and 27-45% range showed no benefit. This comparison does not include Mediterranean diet. But they also stated that LC benefits mainly at the 1st 3 months and then benefits taper off for next 2 years. In my opinion, meaning benefits are short term. NOTE this is comparing glucose control, LCHF with the high fat content has other risks from the HF.

No where did they conclude it is only low carb Mediterranean diet showing benefit and moderate carb Mediterranean diet showing no benefit at all. Also note, mentioning a study is not = their final recomendation.

As usual, your tweets are misinterpreting the literature and you spreading misinformation. Instead of spending time creating real good evidence, waste time playing with words and cherrypicking.

Thank you for showing the whole forum again of your deceits. You really do the LC CAMP a great disservice.

Last edited by binbinpon; 10-10-2018 at 10:21 AM..
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Old 10-10-2018, 03:59 PM   #83
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8 hours after Food intake

Blood sugar test show more than 7

Is this type2 diabetic?

person tested was all along ok as in 5+ to 6+ for blood sugar test until 2-3 months sustain injury so moved less E.g. walking etc

End up now blood sugar more than 7+

Can reverse this pre-diabetic?
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Old 10-10-2018, 04:07 PM   #84
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8 hours after Food intake

Blood sugar test show more than 7

Is this type2 diabetic?

person tested was all along ok as in 5+ to 6+ for blood sugar test until 2-3 months sustain injury so moved less E.g. walking etc

End up now blood sugar more than 7+

Can reverse this pre-diabetic?
You're asking in the wrong place.

Anyway, can't diagnose whether diabetic or not from that reading. Would recommend this person goes for a fasting (10-12hrs) venous (draw blood from vein, not fingerprick) glucose test, or an oral glucose tolerance test. Both can be done for cheap in the polyclinics.
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Old 11-10-2018, 06:08 PM   #85
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See article on this in my Home Cooking thread
Author quotes all relevant parts of that Joint Statement refuting YOUR bias
It is Low Carb Mediterranean btw ...

Also mentioned Moderate Carb did not show benefit at all !!!!!!!
Again twisting words of ADA again.

ADA mentioned 3 trials of Mediterranean diet, of which only 1 trial includes low carb diet. They proceed to describe the LC med result.
Then ADA mentioned meta analysis of the several Mediterranean diet RCTs and come to their conclusion that Mediterranean diets appears to improve gylcemic control best.

They mentioned a study comparing LC(0-26%) vs (27-45%), posting the benefit of LC at glycemic control and 27-45% range showed no benefit. This comparison does not include Mediterranean diet. But they also stated that LC benefits mainly at the 1st 3 months and then benefits taper off for next 2 years. In my opinion, meaning benefits are short term. NOTE this is comparing glucose control, LCHF with the high fat content has other risks from the HF.

No where did they conclude it is only low carb Mediterranean diet showing benefit and moderate carb Mediterranean diet showing no benefit at all. Also note, mentioning a study is not = their final recomendation.


As usual, your tweets are misinterpreting the literature and you spreading misinformation. Instead of spending time creating real good evidence, waste time playing with words and cherrypicking.

Thank you for showing the whole forum again of your deceits. You really do the LC CAMP a great disservice.
Anyone discovered I was MIA for >24 hours ?

Anyway really impossible to avoid WOTs much as I want to in discussions etc

THIS is the link to the fair objective article posted at my Home Cooking thread
http://www.lchf-rd.com/2018/10/07/am...ow-carb-diets/
Spoiler!



Important extract at Pg 12 PDF of http://care.diabetesjournals.org/con....full-text.pdf :

THE FULL RANGE OF THERAPEUTIC
OPTIONS: LIFESTYLE
MANAGEMENT, MEDICATION,
AND OBESITY MANAGEMENT

This section summarizes the lifestyle,
medication, and obesity management
therapies that lower glucose or improve
other outcomes in patients with type 2
diabetes.

Spoiler!

Dietary Quality and Eating Patterns.

There is no single ratio of carbohydrate, proteins,
and fat intake that is optimal for every
person with type 2 diabetes. Instead,
there are many good options and professional
guidelines usually recommend
individually selected eating patterns that
emphasize foods of demonstrated health
benefit, that minimize foods of demonstrated
harm, and that accommodate
patient preference and metabolic needs,
with the goal of identifying healthy dietary
habits that are feasible and sustainable.
Three trials of a Mediterranean
eating pattern
reported modest weight
loss and improved glycemic control
(66–68). In one of these, people with
new-onset diabetes assigned to a low carbohydrate
Mediterranean eating pattern

were 37% less likely to require
glucose-lowering medications over 4
years
compared with patients assigned
to a low-fat diet (HR 0.63 [95% CI 0.51,
0.86]).
A meta-analysis of RCTs in patients
with type 2 diabetes showed that
the Mediterranean eating pattern reduced
HbA1c more than control diets
(mean difference 23.3 mmol/mol, 95%
CI 25.1, 21.5 mmol/mol [20.30%, 95% CI
20.46%, 20.14%]) (69). Low-carbohydrate,
low glycemic index, and high-protein diets,
and the Dietary Approaches to Stop Hypertension
(DASH) diet all improve glycemic
control, but the effect of the Mediterranean
eating pattern appears to be the
greatest (70–72). Low-carbohydrate diets
(,26% of total energy) produce substantial
reductions in HbA1c at 3 months (25.2
mmol/mol, 95% CI 27.8, 22.5 mmol/mol
[20.47%, 95% CI 20.71%, 20.23%]) and
6 months (4.0 mmol/mol, 95% CI 26.8,
21.0 mmol/mol [20.36%, 95% CI 20.62%,
20.09%]), with diminishing effects at 12
and 24 months; no benefit of moderate
carbohydrate restriction (26–45%) was
observed
(73). Vegetarian eating patterns
have been shown to lower HbA1c,
but not fasting glucose, compared with
non-vegetarian ones
(74). Very recent trials
of different eating patterns in type 2
diabetes have typically also included
weight reduction, hindering firm conclusions
regarding the distinct contribution
of dietary quality.

Consensus recommendation
c All overweight and obese patients
with diabetes should be advised of
the health benefits of weight loss
and encouraged to engage in a
program of intensive lifestyle management,
which may include food
substitution.

Well MY sensible interpretation from all this is simply :

It would be the LOW Carb so-termed "Mediterranean" Diet that is truly effective and NOT any Moderate or High Carb "Mediterranean" Diet

NB : In MANY Mediterranean regions those 'Mediterranean" diets come with HIGH Healthy Fat with LOTS of saturated fats in fatty meats mostly with Lowish-Moderate Carbs too ! The BASIC premise with ALL 'Good Effective Diets' is that they avoid CRAP [& PUFA Veg Seed Oils] as much as possible !

Last edited by kaypohchee; 11-10-2018 at 07:04 PM..
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Old 11-10-2018, 06:16 PM   #86
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Sugar does breed alot of virus , but we need sugar to produce energy too
Hmmm any wonder then

WHY those ppl on Zero Carb/Glucose with their Carnivore All-Meat Diet aren't dead yet since no energy production possible ???

Last edited by kaypohchee; 11-10-2018 at 07:02 PM..
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Old 11-10-2018, 06:23 PM   #87
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https://peterattiamd.com/ketosis-adv...-state-part-i/

i only respect Dr Peter Attia M.D

the rest are pseudoscientists
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Old 11-10-2018, 06:26 PM   #88
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Anyone discovered I was MIA for >24 hours ?

Anyway really impossible to avoid WOTs much as I want to in discussions etc

THIS is the link to the fair objective article posted at my Home Cooking thread
http://www.lchf-rd.com/2018/10/07/am...ow-carb-diets/



Important extract at Pg 12 PDF of http://care.diabetesjournals.org/con....full-text.pdf :

THE FULL RANGE OF THERAPEUTIC
OPTIONS: LIFESTYLE
MANAGEMENT, MEDICATION,
AND OBESITY MANAGEMENT

This section summarizes the lifestyle,
medication, and obesity management
therapies that lower glucose or improve
other outcomes in patients with type 2
diabetes.




Well MY sensible interpretation from all this is simply :

It would be the LOW Carb so-termed "Mediterranean" Diet that is truly effective and NOT any Moderate or High Carb "Mediterranean" Diet

NB : In MANY Mediterranean regions those 'Mediterranean" diets come with HIGH Healthy Fat with LOTS of saturated fats in fatty meats mostly with Lowish-Moderate Carbs too ! The BASIC premise with ALL 'Good Effective Diets' is that they avoid CRAP [& PUFA Veg Seed Oils] as much as possible !

Still quoting your tweet pov. Go download the actual ADA and read for yourself whether what I said is correct or your cherry picking Pov.

The ADA statement "Three trials of a Mediterranean eating pattern reported modest weight loss and improved glycemic control(66–68)." already refuted your twisted conclusion since they contain LC and NC Mediterranean diets. Mediterranean diet gives benefits because they are mediterranean diets, regardless of carb intake. There is nothing showing low carb mediterranean diet more superior than normal carb.

"Low-carbohydrate, low glycemic index, and high-protein diets, and the Dietary Approaches to Stop Hypertension (DASH) diet all improve glycemic control, but the effect of the Mediterranean eating pattern appears to be the greatest (70–72)"

You just lump the this statement with other statement on a totally unrelated low carb study to give your final conclusion.
With your same twisted logic, combining this statement with a statement of vegan diet benefits means vegetarian Mediterranean diet is the most effective, or likewise a DASH-Mediterranean diet is the best??

How can you extrapolate and combine 2 different statements to give 1 conclusion when the variables involved are totally different.
You amaze me with your understanding capabilities....

In fact does it mean that if ADA approved diet list listed Mediterranean diet as top, followed by DASH, followed by Low carb, then Vegan as last LC is 2nd lousiest of all 4??? Ofc I won't be so shallow to argue with you this way.



There is a medical consensus on what is a Mediterranean diet which I shared with you before. Enuf said.

Last edited by binbinpon; 11-10-2018 at 10:30 PM..
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Old 11-10-2018, 06:59 PM   #89
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You are not making sense. YL maligned you over your mum, i see you defend yourself about that a lot! I did not see uncle chay malign you over your mum buy i see him disagree with your preferred diet and you defend your diet a lot!

Now, I see someone scolding your mum very stupid... you did not say a single word at all!!! So stop giving me the crap that you got better things to do. You never want to lose an argument. That concern you or your diet. You just simply do not give a shite about your mum
Just bc you missed gkhchay's posts maligning me over my mom doesn't mean he didn't do so
I'll quote those posts to add here when found
Sighzzz many of the older relevant posts are now missing as found in those controversial Closed Threads that expired recently [and I DIDN'T think to Copy those for posterity - to use in rebuttal in times such as these - esp those showing gkhchay's own 'hypocritical' plp side/nature too]


I was away from EDMW for >>24 hours as WAS busy with more important/better things such as Family Matters that matter :
- celebrating the very long life of my longest-lived 100++++ paternal aunt both at her wake n funeral
- hearing some pretty amazing marvellous stories of her richly-lived life
- finding that I TOO possess those "not-necessarily bad traits of being very Strong-Willed Keeping to our Guns etc & Must Have the Last Word" as I too belong to the next generation of formidable XXXX Clan Gals with the family genes !
- accompanying mom to her 4th Memory Clinic appointment etc & updating the doc with her progress etc
- catching-up & bonding with remaining relatives/cousins & last-surviving >mid-90s aunt ...(my Malaysian cousin did her usual Flying Funeral Visits to represent that branch too)
one of my cousins commented that my aunt MIGHT live longer than the 100++++ one altho' I told him it is unlikely for my coming to 80 mom to go past 90 [these 2 being the last 2 survivors of that generation]

I leave it to Heaven to decide [not for unknowing patronising Holier-than-Thou outsiders to judge etc] whether or not I care about mom

Caring for someone MUST also include defending her against other strangers or siaolangs calling her stupid ???

Last edited by kaypohchee; 12-10-2018 at 01:04 AM..
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Old 11-10-2018, 07:24 PM   #90
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I was away from EDMW for >>24 hours as WAS busy with more important/better things such as Family Matters that matter :


I doubt anyone notice your absence or miss your presence in this forum, to warrant such a detailing of your day's event here.

Anyway, do continue to contribute meaningful and quality findings (less the WOT) on ketogenic diets in this thread.

I believe most of us aren't really interested in your daily activities. Keep the juicy details to your own blog for your admirers and keen followers. Very much appreciated.

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