Liverpool Forum (Anfield) - Part 20

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GunzerX

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Let's be honest, no matter how many sponsorship that has come aboard under FSG, they pale when compared to what our competitors bring in. Brand don't care much about past glory but they need current achievement which we are way behind others.

We failed in that area under Moores and H&G when we won the CL and are strong in the league.

I hope Klopp have ideas to push us toward top 4 so he can strengthen next season else, he will keep missing his main target.

maybe think about this..before the arab owner took over man city....They are never even a top 10 club. So in this case, owner to blame for the success of man city or the manager brilliance>?
 

s7460597

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Fsg did well in stabilising the club financially, expanding Anfield and increasing commercial revenues.

Having said that they are businessmen who recognised the once in a lifetime opportunity and bought the club on the cheap.

They have made mistakes and aren't above reproach.

Why the criticism now? Don't think they are new. Mainly it revolves around the money available for transfers. Looks like despite the number of movements in and out of the club there's still a lack of quality in the squad.

Both positions of achieving success solely through massive spending or the opposite of developing young players don't guarantee success. Imho both need to be done when appropriate.
 

deadguy

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Hypocrite what GOD deadguy...


I not complaining about club position...whether top 4 or top 20...I still support Liverpool.


I just plain worry about club future is owned by FSG. They are clearly not top 4 owner calibre.

What GOD am I? Death GOD 😶.

Not saying who are hypo or what not but there are just too much bs whenever we lose and most are aiming at owner.

We don't get this player. Owner fault. We lose games. Owner fault. We got good NET spend. Owner fault cos need to throw $ more.

Fans asked for contract extension for Kenny, Rodgers but when things goes south, Owner kena blamed.

We got 2 finals under kenny all hail the king. Lost one of them it's owner fault. Play damn good fotball under Rodgers and close to Title, Rodgers the new Shankly. Failed at last hurdle, owner fault. Klopp 2 finals less than a year, he's a genius. Failed to win both, yes, owner fault again.
 

deadguy

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maybe think about this..before the arab owner took over man city....They are never even a top 10 club. So in this case, owner to blame for the success of man city or the manager brilliance>?

How much do they spend before they taste the Title? See their sponsorship? That's how you cook the book. Now can sell to China to cook book as well.
 

Henabi

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Not to such extremes that we went into two cup finals and lost both were down to Owners fault. It was clearly our players not good enough and the tenancy to cracking down pressure.

But still... when it comes down to transfers, I'm quite sure our owners play a bit too. I'm sure they will say, example, Klopp only has 50million to play with, including buying, selling and renewing players contracts.

This is based on blah blah blah. Etc etc etc.
 

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5 key things Jurgen Klopp has got wrong during Liverpool’s winter slump
Opinion 05.02.2017


Liverpool’s winter slump – five defeats in the last eight games and just one win in the last 10 in all competitions – is not just a bad run, but is threatening to completely ruin Jurgen Klopp‘s first full season in charge.

That single win in 2017 was against League 2 Plymouth Argyle – further showing just how bad this run has been. Only six goals have been scored in the last nine games.

This isn’t just down to Sadio Mane‘s absence, or Philippe Coutinho‘s injury, or Joel Matip‘s injury and subsequent delayed return.

That the manager hasn’t been able to find solutions – despite numerous soundbites about how the team has no problem against teams who sit deep – is a major concern.

“I’m responsible for it,” said Klopp after the defeat to Wolves. “You learn a lot about players in situations like this. I am responsible for this performance, 100 percent.”

How then have Liverpool gone from title challengers to fighting for a place in the top four in just a month?



1. Sunderland team selection

Klopp’s decision to make only one change – that enforced – for the match at Sunderland less than 48 hours after the energy-sapping win over Man City at Anfield signalled the beginning of this turgid run of form.

SUNDERLAND, ENGLAND - Monday, January 2, 2017: Liverpool's Emre Can looks confused as referee Anthony Taylor awards Sunderland a SECOND penalty during the FA Premier League match at the Stadium of Light. (Pic by David Rawcliffe/Propaganda)

It was a ridiculous decision, and lo and behold Liverpool have looked tired and slow, and been out-muscled and out-paced in every game since.

Fresh legs – and minds – were needed against Sunderland, even just a few changes would have provided more energy for those feeling the affects from the City match.

Does Klopp need to change his approach without a winter break? This is the first full season he’s had without one and his players are showing serious signs of fatigue.



2. Failing to address Mane’s absence

The slump cannot be completely attributed to Mane’s absence, but the failure to address it is a major contributing factor.

LIVERPOOL, ENGLAND - Saturday, December 31, 2016: Liverpool's Sadio Mane in action against Manchester City during the FA Premier League match at Anfield. (Pic by David Rawcliffe/Propaganda)

The most frustrating thing is that Klopp knew Mane was leaving months ago, it wasn’t an unexpected injury. A contingency plan could and should have been in place.

Initially it seemed that a new signing was the plan, but that never arrived.

But without a ‘direct’ replacement, Klopp failed to settle on a plan. One game Firmino was on the right, the next he was back in the middle, the next he was on the left. Sturridge came in, then out, then back in.

Lallana was moved out of his best position from which he has impressed this season, into the front three and therefore disturbing two key areas of the side. Lallana’s now struggling again back in midfield.

In Mane’s absence, Liverpool have been far too slow and predictable.



3. Playing Emre Can

This is an extremely obvious one and perhaps the most baffling. Certainly the one that most supporters would agree with.

LIVERPOOL, ENGLAND - Saturday, December 31, 2016: Liverpool's manager Jürgen Klopp gives instructions to Emre Can during the FA Premier League match against Manchester City at Anfield. (Pic by David Rawcliffe/Propaganda)

Gini Wijnaldum was a key part of Liverpool’s excellent start to the season, almost an ever-present from August to November.

Yet he finds himself behind a player who Klopp revealed this week has been playing with a calf issue: “He has this calf issue which we are still looking into and trying to find out why. Is it his back? Is it his ankle?”

Can played 90 minutes against Man City, Sunderland, Man United, Southampton away, and Chelsea, and started against Plymouth at home, Swansea and Southampton.

He started seven games in 26 days. A player carrying an injury and very clearly out of form. No goals, no assists, in a supposedly more attacking role in midfield.

That’s part of the problem, Can’s role being changed is something the player has struggled to adapt to and he sits too deep alongside Henderson, making Liverpool’s build up play slow, predictable and lacking creativity.



4. Too slow with subs

This is a major concern and something that apparently Dortmund fans noticed especially in his latter years there.

Liverpool's Adam Lallana (centre) is substituted on for Liverpool's Sadio Mane (right) by Liverpool manager Jurgen Klopp (left) during the Premier League match at the Vitality Stadium, Bournemouth. 2016. (Picture by Adam Davy PA Wire/PA Images)

Klopp appears to be far too reactive than proactive with his subs. And they are too late to affect the game.

Against Hull, Moreno and Origi were introduced with seven minutes remaining. By which time Marco Silva had already changed to a back five, and Hull went on to make it 2-0 rather than Liverpool 1-1.

Klopp’s in-game management was a massive, massive, problem in the Europa League final against Sevilla, when the whole world could see how the Spanish side were overcoming Liverpool’s midfield of Can and Milner. Joe Allen‘s introduction was obvious, but arrived in the 74th minute – by the time it was 3-1.

At Southampton, first in the Premier League, Sturridge was introduced in the 78th minute and Origi in the 91st minute. Then in the first leg of the League Cup semi-final, Origi came on in the 83rd minute.



5. Playing Lucas Leiva

He’s a nice guy, he’s a long-term servant. Bla bla bla. It means nothing on the pitch. Lucas Leiva is not good enough to be playing for Liverpool, certainly not at centre-back.

KINGSTON-UPON-HULL, ENGLAND - Saturday, February 4, 2017: Liverpoo's goalkeeper Simon Mignolet looks dejected after his fumble led to Hull City's opening goal during the FA Premier League match at the KCOM Stadium. (Pic by David Rawcliffe/Propaganda)

Hull’s game plan was always going to be to play on the counter attack, using the same blueprint that saw Plymouth, Southampton (twice) and Wolves prosper in January, therefore Liverpool needed pace in defence to defend against the counter attack.

Klopp went with Lucas Leiva, the slowest player at the club, and James Milner, who is massively out of form and looking extremely tired, as the left side of his defence.



With just one game in the next 21 days Klopp has plenty of time to assess where it’s gone wrong, and perhaps give his players a mini winter break. Last season he took some of the squad to Tenerife in March and it wouldn’t be a surprise to see something similar after the Spurs match, when there’s 16 days before Leicester away.
 

Takechan

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Follow-up response from someone in the comments section of that article

Monkey D. Luffy • 19 hours ago
Copy pasted this from a subreddit and posted a link to it in my other comment on this article

"I went over to the Borussia Dormtund subreddit to see what they had to say. I would link it, but I don't post on Reddit too often, so I'm not sure how to link other threads. Their answers were really insightful, and I feel a lot more confident going forward. I also want to mention that while I wrote some stupid things in the post like questioning whether Klopp will bring success to this club, I don't really feel that way. I kinda lost my head after the Hull defeat, as against the bottom five, we've taken one point out of nine, which isn't good enough. I think as you scroll through the comments, you'll find that I've calmed down as time has passed by. Also, being out sick with a fever doesn't really help. Key talking points for me:

1) The reason Jurgen Klopp doesn't change his tactics is that he wants to play the team into them. He has the ability to tinker, as we saw against Man United and Man City, but won't do it often to ensure the players really get behind the system. Maybe this means our players still haven't adapted to Klopp's playing style completely yet. Credit to /u/Loeffellux for that one.

2) If a player doesn't one hundred percent buy into Klopp's philosophy, he'll get sold. This tells me that despite what we want to think, Daniel Sturridge probably doesn't have much of a future here.

3) I found this one the most interesting: /u/Icantrememberlogins wrote that if a player looks ****, but Klopp believes in them, its worth being patient. He cites Schmelzer, Lewandowski, and Mkhitaryan as examples. This would probably be why he keeps selecting Emre Can, who has been garbage this season, but has looked world class in the Europa League games last season. I'd still play Gini personally, but Can isn't going anywhere, because Klopp sees potential in him. While some of you may scoff at that, keep in mind Mkhitaryan was hot garbage until his last season at Dortmund, and Lewandowski didn't become a regular starter until Lucas Barios left the club.

4) The BVB fans back Klopp to turn it around and get us into the top four. /u/TheTrolledOne thinks that Chelsea have just been too good for anyone this season, and that they'd probably win the Champions League if they were in it. I'd probably have to agree with that sentiment, because keep in mind, their entire starting XI bar Moses and Alonso have won league titles before. Meanwhile, outside of Milner, no one in our squad has lifted one of the major trophies of UCL, Premier League, or FA Cup before. We're going through a major rebuild, and unlike City or United, we haven't had any form of success in a major competition for a long, long time. /u/MrMountainFace says that even though clubs like City and United have top tier managers and have invested in world class players with their money warchests, we've still outperformed them thus far. He says we will stablize in time. Honestly, this really caught my eye, because while City and United have played out of this world at times this season, they're currently in the same boat as us in terms of being in the middle of a rebuild. Their players have struggled for consistency throughout the season as well, which is why players like Kevin De Bruyne and Paul Pogba have been missing for large parts of the season; they're not one hundred percent used to the manager's tactics yet. It could be a reason why our players have dropped off recently as well.

5) They're not a hundred percent sure what to make of our players. /u/Jonhl15 wrote that the absences of Coutinho, Mane, Dejan, and Matip have made us look a lot worse than we actually are. However, /u/Icantrememberlogins says that there are very few players at the current LFC squad that he'd take at BVB, which is a fair assessment imo. As to whether they're good enough to finish top four, /u/MrMountainFace says we'll have to hope tactics work and let things run their course.

6) Finally, /u/Icantrememberlogins mentions that City, United, and Chelsea are all under greater pressure than us to finish in the top four, considering their pedigree and success in recent years. There's a high chance we won't make top four, but that isn't our focus is it? He writes that Klopp will obviously attempt to win every trophy, because that's the type of manager that he is, but right now, he's still working towards getting the right squad and giving key players minutes to ensure their consistency. We don't have all the right pieces, but look at how long it took for Coutinho to become a world class player (and after today's performance, debates over his consistency are going to start again). Origi, Emre, and Karius have had moments, but they're going to need minutes and experience.

Now I want to quickly state this isn't a call to be positive, or a post to call out those who are cynical. We all handle defeats and bad form differently. Some of us are pessimists, and thats fine, while others are overly optimistic, but that's also fine. The point of this post was to get the views from the Borussia Dortmund fans on our situation. The consensus is that our squad isn't that good, and we might not make top four. However, from their experience, we should be prepared for that, as it took them a while to get going under Klopp as well, and they were on the fence over players like Lewandowski and Mkhitaryan initially. We should prepare for some horrible results up ahead, yet, we should also be prepared to celebrate success. I'd like to apologize for any comments that might portray the fanbase as overreactionary or anything like that. You guys are the best, and there's a reason why I come to this sub after a victory or defeat. Lets just wait it out and see what happens, and enjoy the ride. We'll cuss out Emre Can and Simon Mignolet together, and we'll drop our jaws at a Coutinho beauty together. It doesn't matter what happens, because we still have a chance. Let me know what you guys think about the rest of the season, and a huge thank you to the Dortmund fans for taking out their time and letting us know their opinion on ****.
"

Credits to whoever wrote this. #YNWA
 

begintoend

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Guys, chill...

I've just sent in my resume to be klopp's assistant already. :s13:
 

begintoend

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During the course of this season, I have raised certain observations from the games we played. Ultimately what has unfold stems from the observations. But if they are related to management, transfer, profits or what so... I am absolutely clueless, thus have never participated in such discussions.

When the season started, whoever we got and brought in are deemed the ones that will see us through this season. Wherein such I proclaimed we get top4. - So we are at a stage where I eat my words (yet), the slump could actually continue.

I have my beef against players not in their natural positions. This has so far been well for the club. But little by little, these players are already beginning to show their uneasiness in adaptation for the long term. Because of this, sub-par performances are creeping in.

GGpressing. High tempo, high line. Shut their width and press for mistakes to happen through the centre. We have overhyped our abilities. Because there are laws in this system that is easily discovered with low player discipline, low quality, bad fitness and bus teams or Direct teams. Klopp toned down a bit but in essence, his ggpressing is heavily relied on as his 12th player.

Our defence is still our weakest part. Attack we have possession and strikes at goals albeit goals ratio not impressive. But defence as a unit is worrying. This is due to the pressing we need to perform. Player positioning, reading and concentration. GK wise,I still think between migs and karius, we are still ok. Ya I know, blips occur often. But this will be cut down if the defence was slightly better. Doesn't help when fued of sakho and klopp is beyong imagination.

Another little issue I have with this team is the trust between players, managers and even fans. I really like and adore klopp's way of trust in his players. Good or bad, it is up to individual perception. This trust becomes negative when you see the same players in 11, long sub time or same tactics. As a player, it feels really nice to have a coach that trust you. Really good feel.

feels like a repeated rant. ok, coffee break liao liao. :D
 

cwcyenk

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Why is it that whenever people have different opinions, other people starts to question about their loyalty, tell them to support other clubs or worst, accused them of being a ManU fan or whatever.

What is it with some of you? I really don't get it. I just merely joked in my previous post that maybe Liverpool played so badly and lose because they don't like to be man-hug by Klopp at the end of the match. And I was being accused as a Man U fan and told to **** off. Seriously!?!?!?!

Then I read someone wants Klopp to resign if he cannot get top 4 at the end of the season and he was criticised left, right and centre. Why? He has his own opinion and he is just voicing them out. So what's wrong with that?

I have my own opinion too, but that doesn't mean that I am not a true LFC fan but you are one. A person has an opinion on something because he cares. Otherwise it will just be...whatever.

To put it on record,

Do I want Klopp out? - NO
Is the current slump Klopp's fault, players' fault or FSG's fault? - More on Klopp's fault than the others, in my opinion.

Even if he cannot get top 4 this season, I would want him to stay for at least another season to get it right.
 

begintoend

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Why is it that whenever people have different opinions, other people starts to question about their loyalty, tell them to support other clubs or worst, accused them of being a ManU fan or whatever.

What is it with some of you? I really don't get it. I just merely joked in my previous post that maybe Liverpool played so badly and lose because they don't like to be man-hug by Klopp at the end of the match. And I was being accused as a Man U fan and told to **** off. Seriously!?!?!?!

Then I read someone wants Klopp to resign if he cannot get top 4 at the end of the season and he was criticised left, right and centre. Why? He has his own opinion and he is just voicing them out. So what's wrong with that?

I have my own opinion too, but that doesn't mean that I am not a true LFC fan but you are one. A person has an opinion on something because he cares. Otherwise it will just be...whatever.

To put it on record,

Do I want Klopp out? - NO
Is the current slump Klopp's fault, players' fault or FSG's fault? - More on Klopp's fault than the others, in my opinion.

Even if he cannot get top 4 this season, I would want him to stay for at least another season to get it right.

As others have pointed out, the way fans react to what they wanna see is totally weird. But come on, its actually pretty mild in here. ;)
 

GunzerX

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Why is it that whenever people have different opinions, other people starts to question about their loyalty, tell them to support other clubs or worst, accused them of being a ManU fan or whatever.

What is it with some of you? I really don't get it. I just merely joked in my previous post that maybe Liverpool played so badly and lose because they don't like to be man-hug by Klopp at the end of the match. And I was being accused as a Man U fan and told to **** off. Seriously!?!?!?!

Then I read someone wants Klopp to resign if he cannot get top 4 at the end of the season and he was criticised left, right and centre. Why? He has his own opinion and he is just voicing them out. So what's wrong with that?

I have my own opinion too, but that doesn't mean that I am not a true LFC fan but you are one. A person has an opinion on something because he cares. Otherwise it will just be...whatever.

To put it on record,

Do I want Klopp out? - NO
Is the current slump Klopp's fault, players' fault or FSG's fault? - More on Klopp's fault than the others, in my opinion.

Even if he cannot get top 4 this season, I would want him to stay for at least another season to get it right.
Chill bro...I understand your pain. Just like some of the brother here...he see me type FSG he immediately arrive like Uber driver and pick me up for rigorously debate. : X


I just merely posting news of online Fans unhappy with FSG and tend to agree cos of the transfer fund issue
 
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Chill bro...I understand your pain. Just like some of the brother here...he see me type FSG he immediately arrive like Uber driver and pick me up for rigorously debate. : X


I just merely posting news of online Fans unhappy with FSG and tend to agree cos of the transfer fund issue

Typing promo code FSG nao!
 
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During the course of this season, I have raised certain observations from the games we played. Ultimately what has unfold stems from the observations. But if they are related to management, transfer, profits or what so... I am absolutely clueless, thus have never participated in such discussions.

When the season started, whoever we got and brought in are deemed the ones that will see us through this season. Wherein such I proclaimed we get top4. - So we are at a stage where I eat my words (yet), the slump could actually continue.

I have my beef against players not in their natural positions. This has so far been well for the club. But little by little, these players are already beginning to show their uneasiness in adaptation for the long term. Because of this, sub-par performances are creeping in.

GGpressing. High tempo, high line. Shut their width and press for mistakes to happen through the centre. We have overhyped our abilities. Because there are laws in this system that is easily discovered with low player discipline, low quality, bad fitness and bus teams or Direct teams. Klopp toned down a bit but in essence, his ggpressing is heavily relied on as his 12th player.

Our defence is still our weakest part. Attack we have possession and strikes at goals albeit goals ratio not impressive. But defence as a unit is worrying. This is due to the pressing we need to perform. Player positioning, reading and concentration. GK wise,I still think between migs and karius, we are still ok. Ya I know, blips occur often. But this will be cut down if the defence was slightly better. Doesn't help when fued of sakho and klopp is beyong imagination.

Another little issue I have with this team is the trust between players, managers and even fans. I really like and adore klopp's way of trust in his players. Good or bad, it is up to individual perception. This trust becomes negative when you see the same players in 11, long sub time or same tactics. As a player, it feels really nice to have a coach that trust you. Really good feel.

feels like a repeated rant. ok, coffee break liao liao. :D

We are done for, Klopp really do not know how to play any other way seriously, which is why he left Dortmund
 

Henabi

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Follow-up response from someone in the comments section of that article

The reason Jurgen Klopp doesn't change his tactics is that he wants to play the team into them. He has the ability to tinker, as we saw against Man United and Man City, but won't do it often to ensure the players really get behind the system. Maybe this means our players still haven't adapted to Klopp's playing style completely yet. Credit to /u/Loeffellux for that one.

If this is the real reason why Klopp is so resistance against changing to other tactics, then I understand. and I also understand that Liverpool supporters are gonna be in for a heck of a ride till the end of this season... in a different way compared to last season.
 

Medicated Oil

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Chill bro...I understand your pain. Just like some of the brother here...he see me type FSG he immediately arrive like Uber driver and pick me up for rigorously debate. : X


I just merely posting news of online Fans unhappy with FSG and tend to agree cos of the transfer fund issue

Every single fan here want Liverpool to do better.
It is frustrating to see them throwing away all the hard work that they have achieved in 1st half of the season.
I guess every one is entitled to have their opinions whether you are a die-hard Klopp is GOD fan or a realist fan.
I am a realist fan.

As Klopp claimed full responsibility about transfer issues when he signed the contract, then any issues with regard to it should be his baby.
So, I have not seen any writing about FSG stopping or preventing Klopp from signing any players that he want.
If they can splashed out 32 mil for Benteke, then there should be no issues for FSG if Klopp want a player of that price.
It is not forgetting that Benteke deal is sanctioned on top of the previous flop like Mario, Lovren and Banana were signed.
Since Jan is already over, no point crying over spilled milk.

I do not want Klopp to be out.
He is here for a reason.
That is to learn to improve his pressing game in Liverpool to make him a better manager.
That is his obstacle to clear.
He can insist that he is not wrong then prepared to be sacked by end of next season.
Or he can improve himself and bring the team one level up.
 

urbanturban

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Klopp, in my opinion, still better than Rodgers and Hodgson.

I think he deserves time to sort the defensive aspects out.
 

deadguy

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Chill bro...I understand your pain. Just like some of the brother here...he see me type FSG he immediately arrive like Uber driver and pick me up for rigorously debate. : X


I just merely posting news of online Fans unhappy with FSG and tend to agree cos of the transfer fund issue

Aren't that supposed to be healthy or you just want people to agree with you and hantam FSG? :s22:
 
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