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Manchester United - Theatre of Dreams - Part 33

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Old 20-08-2018, 08:45 PM   #1411
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Yes i would say this is correct. Most of us grew up watching attacking football at United, wingplay and all that, but that was during Sir Alex time

I think every manager has their own or unique style. Why would we want to or try to enforce the United way upon them? Why not let them build a team of their own their own way? Of course i do miss the old times, but we have to move on. There is no more United way. You bring in ZZ, Poch, Simeone tomorrow they will also play their own way. If you want the old United way, bring in Ryan Giggs lor. You all want? But my opinion lah, donít have to agree

Not many or no one will complain if the team can pick up the points week in week out and win some silverwares.. but the complaints will come in if you dun pick up points plus playing boring/sterile football.

as long as the ball is spending more time in the opposition half and the keeper are being tested or the opposition defense are being put under pressure... that is what many fans are looking for... cos it means the chance of getting a goal will increase.

Do we need Giggs to inculcate this philosophy ? I dun think so.
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Old 20-08-2018, 08:54 PM   #1412
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Not so soon...cos we will beat Spurs and all will be well for a week and yesterday's match forgotten. Spurs traditionally don't win at OT no matter how well they play.
what if utd lose to spurs?
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Old 20-08-2018, 09:24 PM   #1413
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good article by gnev
http://www.skysports.com/football/ne...ot-good-enough

Gary Neville: Manchester United defence currently 'not good enough'
Eric Bailly and Victor Lindelof described as 'second-fiddle centre-backs'

Last Updated: 20/08/18 8:31am

After watching Manchester United lose at Brighton, Gary Neville spoke passionately on the Gary Neville Podcast and Super Sunday about why Manchester United's defence isn't good enough to win the title and why their recruitment policy has let them down...

What Manchester United had to do, particularly in these first two games against Brighton and Leicester, was win.

Any defeat against these two teams, especially in the way they have been beaten today, then as I said before the first game, the dark clouds that were circling over Old Trafford were going to open and burst.

There's no doubt that before the first game of the season, Manchester United needed one or two authoritative new centre-backs.

Jose Mourinho, in his own words, gave the list, and it wasn't delivered. For whatever reason - maybe they were too expensive, they didn't fit the club's philosophy or players weren't available.

You knew full well that once Manchester United hadn't signed those players that the current centre-backs were going to be under big, big pressure.
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Brighton 3-2 Manchester Utd highlights

There's nothing worse for a player in a dressing room than having the club in public talking about players they haven't got and players they want to bring in in certain positions.

What does that do to the confidence of the players who are at the club? Not a lot. What we've seen today are two players in Eric Bailly and Victor Lindelof who are lacking confidence a little bit or maybe they aren't quite good enough. Maybe the answer lies somewhere in between.

To me, they look like second-fiddle centre-backs. If they had, for instance, John Terry, Jaap Stam, Rio Ferdinand or Nemanja Vidic alongside them then they would probably be alright.

I call myself a second-fiddle centre-back, if that. I played a lot of games at centre-back for Manchester United, but I needed someone alongside me of real stature and strength - and a full-back of stature and strength alongside me - or else it was very difficult for me because of my lack of physicality.

You can get messed around a little bit and those two centre-backs today for Manchester United got messed around. It happens quite a bit.

I'm not making excuses for them. There has been £120m of investment in that back four. You've probably got the best goalkeeper in the world, so from a back-five point of view, you could argue there has been serious investment.

However, they are not good enough. Collectively they are not good enough and individually they are not good enough.

I know some of those lads and I've worked with them. I think they could operate in a really good back four, but they need one or two players of stature around them. Jose Mourinho knew that.

Whatever the club think about not wanting to invest further in centre-backs because they've already got five etc, doesn't matter. The end result is still the same. You still need a new back four, you still need new centre-backs.

It doesn't matter if you think you've spent too much money in that area, you still have to make the decision that if Toby Alderweireld or Harry Maguire are available then you've just got to go and get them if you are Manchester United.

If you've made mistakes previously in the recruitment, which the club no doubt has in the first three or four years after Alex Ferguson left, then you have to pay for it and make sure you don't make the mistake again.

It will be a dark eight days before the Tottenham game because the pressure will come and the media will be all over them like a rash. The fans behind the goal spoke with their actions at the end. I'm sure they will be absolutely furious by what they've seen.

I think we should offer balance. It is the second game of the season and it wasn't all just about the defence. I thought Manchester United were poor going forward as well.

They were static, they were poor passing through midfield and there were a series of single passes rather than combinations. When you are trying to chase a game, sustaining attacks and pressure-building is critical.

There were times during my Manchester United career when we had back fours that conceded goals and we didn't win leagues for two or three years at a time. I was part of those back fours and it wasn't good enough. It eroded the confidence of everyone else in front because they thought every time there was an attack against us we'd concede a goal.

There were also times when we weren't good at chasing games, even though we were brilliant at that for the majority of Alex Ferguson's period. There were times when we did lose patience and did force it or play combinations of passes.

Patience, composure and confidence in the final third when you are trying to build will wear the legs out of the defending team and will then start to think 'they are showing patience, they know they are going to score'.

Manchester United didn't show that in the second half today and that was the most disappointing thing, along with the first half defending,

I think it will force Manchester United and Jose Mourinho to go three at the back. I think, with the centre-backs he's got, he will resort to that.

When I look at the centre-back partnerships that he had at Chelsea, they had power and strength in his teams. He hasn't got that here yet.

He is in his third season and I think he will feel extremely disappointed that he wasn't supported in the transfer market. You can't leave a house three-quarters built. You have to finish it and complete the build. Then you can think about selling it or renting it because nobody is going to pick it up off you half-built.

Manchester United have had a problem since Sir Alex Ferguson retired in the transfer market with David Moyes and then Louis van Gaal You could argue £350m to £400m of the £700m that has been spent has not been wasted, but it's not value for money.

He needs further investment. It's obvious that he does and the club should support him in that because you can't withdraw part way through a process. They have to go for it.

It will get better and Manchester United will get stronger and won't be easy to play against. I do think they will finish in the top four, but the top four historically has never been the benchmark of what Manchester United are. They have always judged themselves by Premier League titles.

At this moment in time, that looks unlikely. Obviously it is still early in the season, but it does look unlikely that Manchester United are anywhere near good enough, as we sit here today.

Forget everything else, that back four is not good enough to win a Premier League title. Let's start and finish with that.

The goalkeeper is the best in the world, the midfield is strong with Paul Pogba, Nemanja Matic and Fred and up front there is Romelu Lukaku, Anthony Martial, Alexis Sanchez, Marcus Rashford, Jesse Lingard, Juan Mata and a lot of good players.

But that back four looks like it will always cause problems and always concede goals. It doesn't have authority and that is a problem.

Jose Mourinho knows about Premier League title-winning teams and about winning titles in different countries.

The base and foundation of that is a good defence.
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Old 20-08-2018, 09:26 PM   #1414
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http://www.skysports.com/football/ne...cts-lee-sharpe

Former Manchester United star Lee Sharpe expects Jose Mourinho to be sacked by Christmas. Adam Bate caught up with him to find out why he is so unimpressed with the manager – on and off the pitch.

Asked about what he expects to see at Manchester United this season and Lee Sharpe is typically forthright. "I am expecting the manager to get sacked before Christmas," he tells Sky Sports. "If he is going to continue with this dourness and this moaning, then people will turn around and say this attitude is not getting us to the top so we need to change it.

Brighton blitz dismantles United

"It just seems same old same old. As much as the press and fans have been on Jose Mourinho's case about the negativity over the past few seasons and him moaning about players he has and has not got, he just seems to ignore everybody and carry on as usual. He looks fed up and it is reflecting in his team's performances. He is playing negative stuff.

"As a player, you come back for pre-season, you've had a break and you've missed football by the time you come back. You're excited and you're eager. You're like a schoolboy again. To then come back and have a lot of negativity and dourness around the place is not great. It is just not a nice way to start the season. It looks like it could be a long slog.

'Jose clueless over best XI'

"I just think the way he is going about his business, I don't think he is getting the best from the players. This team has some unbelievable attacking players but I don't think they are on the front foot enough, I don't think they are playing at a quick enough tempo and I don't think they move the ball enough. They give teams a chance to get back and get organised.

"He has so many options going forwards, it is a shame that he wants to play the way that he wants to play. It didn't work last year against a rampant Manchester City and if things aren't working you have to learn from your mistakes and change something. He needs to change but he just seems to be too stubborn to alter his approach."
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Old 20-08-2018, 09:52 PM   #1415
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JM is the one who bought bailly and lindelof for over 30m each
so now they r not good enough?
seriously lindelof hardly played and wasnt given a proper run in the team at all
bailly have his injury problems last season and was quite strangely on the bench alot too

anyone still rmb we once had a player called mkhitaryan? dropped and banish after few games and shipped off last season

and we are all still waiting to see the real pogba and sanchez turn up

its quite baffling to me that some fans think it's not JM's problem at all that these players are not performing

buy, not good enough, banish them, and then pay more money to bring in another one to replace them

this becomes a vicious cycle if allowed to continue
and somehow the finger is pointed at ed for not buying the players when the record shows otherwise
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Old 20-08-2018, 09:54 PM   #1416
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what if utd lose to spurs?
Another meltdown lor...a bigger one considering Spurs didn't buy a single player in summer.

I know we struggled to beat them at home last season, but at least we won. I'll expect at least the same type of performance and still win with the reinforcements we have. Something we can't really say with the other smaller teams as they too have bought newer players which may have turned them into Leicester.
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Old 20-08-2018, 10:12 PM   #1417
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JM is the one who bought bailly and lindelof for over 30m each
so now they r not good enough?
seriously lindelof hardly played and wasnt given a proper run in the team at all
bailly have his injury problems last season and was quite strangely on the bench alot too

anyone still rmb we once had a player called mkhitaryan? dropped and banish after few games and shipped off last season

and we are all still waiting to see the real pogba and sanchez turn up

its quite baffling to me that some fans think it's not JM's problem at all that these players are not performing

buy, not good enough, banish them, and then pay more money to bring in another one to replace them

this becomes a vicious cycle if allowed to continue
and somehow the finger is pointed at ed for not buying the players when the record shows otherwise
Not only that he have a history of selling players who turn superstars elsewhere, under different managers even.

Let's face it, he's not a manager to nurture players to become superstars. He only knows how to work with players who are already good to begin with. Even that is failing in recent years because he still has not learn how to man manage and motivate the players.

Kinda baffling considering he has worked with average players before and won purely on tactics and good understanding of the opponents in his early managerial career with Porto. Maybe he needs to look back on how to rework the magic he used to have.
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Old 20-08-2018, 10:26 PM   #1418
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good article by gnev
http://www.skysports.com/football/ne...ot-good-enough

Gary Neville: Manchester United defence currently 'not good enough'
Eric Bailly and Victor Lindelof described as 'second-fiddle centre-backs'

Last Updated: 20/08/18 8:31am

After watching Manchester United lose at Brighton, Gary Neville spoke passionately on the Gary Neville Podcast and Super Sunday about why Manchester United's defence isn't good enough to win the title and why their recruitment policy has let them down...

What Manchester United had to do, particularly in these first two games against Brighton and Leicester, was win.

Any defeat against these two teams, especially in the way they have been beaten today, then as I said before the first game, the dark clouds that were circling over Old Trafford were going to open and burst.

There's no doubt that before the first game of the season, Manchester United needed one or two authoritative new centre-backs.

Jose Mourinho, in his own words, gave the list, and it wasn't delivered. For whatever reason - maybe they were too expensive, they didn't fit the club's philosophy or players weren't available.

You knew full well that once Manchester United hadn't signed those players that the current centre-backs were going to be under big, big pressure.
Oops! Remember you need to log in using your Sky iD to watch Premier League video
Brighton 3-2 Manchester Utd highlights

There's nothing worse for a player in a dressing room than having the club in public talking about players they haven't got and players they want to bring in in certain positions.

What does that do to the confidence of the players who are at the club? Not a lot. What we've seen today are two players in Eric Bailly and Victor Lindelof who are lacking confidence a little bit or maybe they aren't quite good enough. Maybe the answer lies somewhere in between.

To me, they look like second-fiddle centre-backs. If they had, for instance, John Terry, Jaap Stam, Rio Ferdinand or Nemanja Vidic alongside them then they would probably be alright.

I call myself a second-fiddle centre-back, if that. I played a lot of games at centre-back for Manchester United, but I needed someone alongside me of real stature and strength - and a full-back of stature and strength alongside me - or else it was very difficult for me because of my lack of physicality.

You can get messed around a little bit and those two centre-backs today for Manchester United got messed around. It happens quite a bit.

I'm not making excuses for them. There has been £120m of investment in that back four. You've probably got the best goalkeeper in the world, so from a back-five point of view, you could argue there has been serious investment.

However, they are not good enough. Collectively they are not good enough and individually they are not good enough.

I know some of those lads and I've worked with them. I think they could operate in a really good back four, but they need one or two players of stature around them. Jose Mourinho knew that.

Whatever the club think about not wanting to invest further in centre-backs because they've already got five etc, doesn't matter. The end result is still the same. You still need a new back four, you still need new centre-backs.

It doesn't matter if you think you've spent too much money in that area, you still have to make the decision that if Toby Alderweireld or Harry Maguire are available then you've just got to go and get them if you are Manchester United.

If you've made mistakes previously in the recruitment, which the club no doubt has in the first three or four years after Alex Ferguson left, then you have to pay for it and make sure you don't make the mistake again.

It will be a dark eight days before the Tottenham game because the pressure will come and the media will be all over them like a rash. The fans behind the goal spoke with their actions at the end. I'm sure they will be absolutely furious by what they've seen.

I think we should offer balance. It is the second game of the season and it wasn't all just about the defence. I thought Manchester United were poor going forward as well.

They were static, they were poor passing through midfield and there were a series of single passes rather than combinations. When you are trying to chase a game, sustaining attacks and pressure-building is critical.

There were times during my Manchester United career when we had back fours that conceded goals and we didn't win leagues for two or three years at a time. I was part of those back fours and it wasn't good enough. It eroded the confidence of everyone else in front because they thought every time there was an attack against us we'd concede a goal.

There were also times when we weren't good at chasing games, even though we were brilliant at that for the majority of Alex Ferguson's period. There were times when we did lose patience and did force it or play combinations of passes.

Patience, composure and confidence in the final third when you are trying to build will wear the legs out of the defending team and will then start to think 'they are showing patience, they know they are going to score'.

Manchester United didn't show that in the second half today and that was the most disappointing thing, along with the first half defending,

I think it will force Manchester United and Jose Mourinho to go three at the back. I think, with the centre-backs he's got, he will resort to that.

When I look at the centre-back partnerships that he had at Chelsea, they had power and strength in his teams. He hasn't got that here yet.

He is in his third season and I think he will feel extremely disappointed that he wasn't supported in the transfer market. You can't leave a house three-quarters built. You have to finish it and complete the build. Then you can think about selling it or renting it because nobody is going to pick it up off you half-built.

Manchester United have had a problem since Sir Alex Ferguson retired in the transfer market with David Moyes and then Louis van Gaal You could argue £350m to £400m of the £700m that has been spent has not been wasted, but it's not value for money.

He needs further investment. It's obvious that he does and the club should support him in that because you can't withdraw part way through a process. They have to go for it.

It will get better and Manchester United will get stronger and won't be easy to play against. I do think they will finish in the top four, but the top four historically has never been the benchmark of what Manchester United are. They have always judged themselves by Premier League titles.

At this moment in time, that looks unlikely. Obviously it is still early in the season, but it does look unlikely that Manchester United are anywhere near good enough, as we sit here today.

Forget everything else, that back four is not good enough to win a Premier League title. Let's start and finish with that.

The goalkeeper is the best in the world, the midfield is strong with Paul Pogba, Nemanja Matic and Fred and up front there is Romelu Lukaku, Anthony Martial, Alexis Sanchez, Marcus Rashford, Jesse Lingard, Juan Mata and a lot of good players.

But that back four looks like it will always cause problems and always concede goals. It doesn't have authority and that is a problem.

Jose Mourinho knows about Premier League title-winning teams and about winning titles in different countries.

The base and foundation of that is a good defence.
He is in his third season and I think he will feel extremely disappointed that he wasn't supported in the transfer market. You can't leave a house three-quarters built. You have to finish it and complete the build. Then you can think about selling it or renting it because nobody is going to pick it up off you half-built.

Manchester United have had a problem since Sir Alex Ferguson retired in the transfer market with David Moyes and then Louis van Gaal You could argue £350m to £400m of the £700m that has been spent has not been wasted, but it's not value for money.

He needs further investment. It's obvious that he does and the club should support him in that because you can't withdraw part way through a process. They have to go for it.

It will get better and Manchester United will get stronger and won't be easy to play against. I do think they will finish in the top four, but the top four historically has never been the benchmark of what Manchester United are. They have always judged themselves by Premier League titles.
totally agree but is too late.....jan transfer means another sanchez issue....never play with teammate before need pre season blah blah blah...
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Old 20-08-2018, 10:28 PM   #1419
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https://www.manchestereveningnews.co...tweet-15051197

While supporters reflected on the abysmal South coast showing, forward Alexis Sanchez took the opportunity to launch his own personal clothing range.
sick still can model...good
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Old 20-08-2018, 10:53 PM   #1420
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Not only that he have a history of selling players who turn superstars elsewhere, under different managers even.

Let's face it, he's not a manager to nurture players to become superstars. He only knows how to work with players who are already good to begin with. Even that is failing in recent years because he still has not learn how to man manage and motivate the players.

Kinda baffling considering he has worked with average players before and won purely on tactics and good understanding of the opponents in his early managerial career with Porto. Maybe he needs to look back on how to rework the magic he used to have.


Moyes was brought in cos the board believed he had overachieved at Everton and given more resources, should be able to bring continual success to the club; hence he could be the right person to replace Fergie plus he was endorsed by Fergie too. Result... failed...sacked after 8 mths

Ah Gaal was brought in cos he had success with Ajax ( always be remembered for guiding a youthful Ajax team to win the Champion League), Barcelona, Bayern Munich.. kept claiming he gave chance to youth in those previous club. Made everyone drooling when it was announcned he was bringing in Angel Di Maria, Falcao, Schwetxxxx etc... we knew what happened next.
Self acclaimed Achievement in MU... turning Young & Valencia as fullback.. central defenders must have one who is right footed and the other must be left footed...giving chance to Rashford on an evening when he was the only striker available for a particular game. Sacked 2 days few days after winning the FA Cup which he thought was a very major title in England.
Famous for playing the most boring football the club supporters had known to date.


Jose was appointed cos he had won the title twice with Chelsea on separate occasion and he was expected to bring the club back to at least a top 3 finish. In short he was expected to bring instant success with the proper funding..Started off season #1 laughing at the style adopted by Ah Gaal regarding ball possession. blah blah...Spent lots of money too andcold freeze players if he doesnt like them. Season #1 was pretty good....winning 2 silverwares... Season #2 finished 2nd spot, knocked out of the CL in round 2 and the team played badly in the FA Cup final... with the famous saying "LKK ruled himself out of the final".... Spent the whole summer complaining of lack of signing and belittling all the fringe players during the tour.

Lets see how it will go in the remaining of 2018
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Old 20-08-2018, 10:54 PM   #1421
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The "United Way" is attacking football .... left and right wing cheong down the flank and cross the ball for the strikers to finish it off.... typical English way aka 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 system

Fergie realised that was not the way to operate successfully especially in the European theatre after the 1999 success... and there were changes to the system the 4-4-1-1 or 4-5-1 or whatever. still there was exciting football...

It seems to me that Moyes, Gaal, Jose were more concern in not losing a game compare to winning. I may be wrong.
"I just think the way he is going about his business, I don't think he is getting the best from the players. This team has some unbelievable attacking players but I don't think they are on the front foot enough, I don't think they are playing at a quick enough tempo and I don't think they move the ball enough. They give teams a chance to get back and get organised.

"He has so many options going forwards, it is a shame that he wants to play the way that he wants to play. It didn't work last year against a rampant Manchester City and if things aren't working you have to learn from your mistakes and change something. He needs to change but he just seems to be too stubborn to alter his approach."
I cannot understand JM's philosophy.

So many good attacking teams these days press the ball - Citeh, Pool, Spurs, etc. He obviously doesn't trust such a system - maybe it's too risky, you get pulled out of shape easily, you leave too much space behind/in between lines, or it's too exhausting for players. But if he sees weaknesses in such tactics, how is it that he is unable to counter it? Such teams always do well against us, complete with household names such as Dunk or Duffy or Bong.

Does he think that we have such awesome players we don't need to resort to such graft? If we don't press the ball to inject some urgency and try to win the ball in the opponent's half, and we're never able to counter quickly given our pedestrian pace on the ball, that means we're forever trying to open up a settled defence - which I hope is very clear by now is something that our awesome attacking players just can't do, and haven't done for the last few seasons.

I'm seriously doubting him to be honest.
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Old 20-08-2018, 10:57 PM   #1422
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Eric bailey and matteo damian both started off brightly after joining manutd, what happened to make them so cui?

luke shaw was touted as the next ashley cole, what happened again?

these players were exceptional when they first joined ....
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Old 20-08-2018, 11:34 PM   #1423
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Now I see rashford play also become useless, can't even get past Brighton players. All our young players don't develop well nowadays
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Old 21-08-2018, 12:30 AM   #1424
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All the players' including DDG performance declined or worsen. Very shocking.
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Old 21-08-2018, 12:36 AM   #1425
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Lets see how it will go in the remaining of 2018
Regarding your last sentence. I hope the ship doesn't over turned.
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