Treasure at Tampines

Eraval

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Leaving aside the issue of potential capital appreciation or rental prospects, I have quite a number of friends who bought shoebox to live in (either city or city fringe areas) and virtually all regretted not getting at least a 2 bedder or larger condo. A home is really quite different from a place you are looking to rent out.



Nobody like living in shoebox long term de, especially if already a couple, more or less need private time mah

The regret is not in the price appreciation but more of the lack of privacy
 

Merg91

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Some couples are too old hens can't lay eggs type
okay mah.
No small chicks or maids.
Don't need to do too much cleaning themselves.

Leaving aside the issue of potential capital appreciation or rental prospects, I have quite a number of friends who bought shoebox to live in (either city or city fringe areas) and virtually all regretted not getting at least a 2 bedder or larger condo. A home is really quite different from a place you are looking to rent out.
 

Hyruga

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Nobody like living in shoebox long term de, especially if already a couple, more or less need private time mah

The regret is not in the price appreciation but more of the lack of privacy

Those who bought studio regret never buy 2br.

Those who bought 2br regret last time never buy The Sail 2br.
 

annetyu

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Five year high only? Feels like an all time high... Five years ago, new launches are easily 30% less than today.

Looks like it is the new launches that are suporting the "price appreciation" while resales are lagging far far behind...

It is too early for the -20% that some cannot wait for. There are still many "euphoric" buyers in the market that developers can squeeze dry.
 

annetyu

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OMG, 1 year after cooling and no 20% off?

Hi, Merg. Why are many resale projects like cityscape still stagnant when the market is booming? I am cracking my head but cannot figure out the reason. Perhaps an expert can enlighten?
 

annetyu

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“A STATE tender for a 99-year leasehold private housing site along Clementi Avenue 1 has attracted five bids.

Units of UOL Group and United Industrial Corporation tied up to place the top bid of S$491.3 million, which works out to S$788.31 per square foot per plot ratio (psf ppr).

Another state tender, for an executive condominium or EC housing site along Canberra Link in the Sembawang area, has drawn eight bids.

The highest bid, from MCC Land (Singapore), was at S$233.89 million, translating to about S$566 psf ppr.”

https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/real-estate/uol-uic-tie-up-places-top-bid-for-clementi-ave-1-site

Looks like a UOL monopoly along clementi avenue 1!

I frequent that area last time for some reason and would like to share that the 2 land parcels that UOL purchased used to have HDB flats on it. So, do not underestimate the potential of HDB land/flats!
 

shin7829

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Last time some old condos only swimming pool and security only
But plus point is area is indeed big


Nowadays the new condo more facilities and etc. Unfortunately the area is smaller. This may be one reason
 

lockks

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Not all product are the same hence not every 2 bedder will earn more than a Shoebox.
Here’s a case study of a 1 & 2 bedder in the most recent TOP project. Both unit were bought on the same day and sub-sale almost the ame period.
We can see the annualised Appreciation % for the shoebox is higher.

I don’t have to show other examples but we can’t just conclude that a shoebox wouldn’t appreciate. Shoebox quantum is Low, thus allowing amateur investors or singles like myself to be part of Singapore’s home ownership dream/Landlord.
High Park 1 bedder
aP9DWTv.jpg



High Park 2 bedder
nc7V1Cf.jpg

U quote 1 example. In the market there are tons of cases they don't rise as much as 2 room. That's very myopic for a comparison.
 

1993newbie

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Another Newly TOP project.. Kingsford Waterbay. Annualised % one bedder is still better.
We can’t just concur and say that 1 bedder are a sure lose.

1 bedder
PHyK3G5.jpg


2 bedder
ccvWDlF.jpg



U quote 1 example. In the market there are tons of cases they don't rise as much as 2 room. That's very myopic for a comparison.
 
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lockks

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Another Newly TOP project.. Kingsford Waterbay. Annualised % one bedder is still better.
We can’t just concur and say that 1 bedder are a sure lose.

1 bedder
PHyK3G5.jpg


2 bedder
ccvWDlF.jpg

Why dont you compile all the 2 room and 1 room sales to make a comparison?
Quoting 1 example everything doednt make your case.
Quoting one example after another doesnt concur 1 bedder is a gd buy either.
Kingsford is an inferior project btw.
 

cscs3

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U quote 1 example. In the market there are tons of cases they don't rise as much as 24 room. That's very myopic for a comparison.

It all depend on location.
Not to forget shoe box case per share also lower. In long run, it will loss out.
 

ThinkCarefully

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A quick recap, how many rounds of CMs and recessions we had gone through over the past two decades?
Not trying to be bullish and try to talk up the market even though I must admit there’s current oversupply in the market. The number of unsold units/data are the best proof, they don’t lie.
But one has to understand that property investment remains as an attractive form of asset class among the Asian and it is still in our DNA. That explains the high % of property ownership in Singapore, especially in our little red dot where land are scarce.

I do agree that with the CM, high price, and interest rate, all these are dampening the rental yield further. The era of high rental yield are truly OVER.

For me I must look at it a bit differently if I still want to play the property game. Mindset needs to be changed.
I would look at rentability in Long term rather than rental yield. In fact, if one is hoping for good rental yield, I suggest it would be better off for him/her to look elsewhere.

Rentability refers to the shortest time you can recoup from the total cost you have committed in your property. Let say u took 25 years of rental earnings to break even of what you had paid, the property could be sold after 25 years and the amount u get will be your net profit (even if you sell it at some losses of what u paid initially due to reduced lease or old/wear and tear issues).
In other words, if u buy a property that is harder to rent out, you may take a longer time to break even of what you had paid for. Then this may be deemed as poor investment cos your unit will always face the risk of being left vacant. Not forgetting the time and opportunity cost should also be factored in.
All these requires careful calculation, thorough research on locations with proven decent rental track records/transaction and careful enter and exit plan.

This is just a coarse concept of mine which Im too lazy to elaborate with figures. Those who get it will understand what I mean.
No success stories to back up my argument yet (as no one has the crystal ball to predict the future), just setting the context for more discussion here. Can agree to disagree.


Bro, are you saying that using your criteria, most projects DO NOT meet, but there are still some rare ‘gems’ that can meet?
 

ThinkCarefully

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Yes agree and not just that, let me state an example.
Some mega projects like treasure is already set to fail in the beginning. While many are still mocking on its number of unsold units and only managed to hit 17% sales as of now, many fails to see that it has a total of 2300 units to begin with. Is it realistic for such Super mega size project to hit an impressive sale record within a short time frame? Common sense tells us that this kinda mega project confirm takes years to sell. If can sell so fast within a short time frame, it will be a mockery to our latest CM.

It’s like two students who are given different sets of assignment to complete within an hour.
Student A can complete 10 question out of 10 questions (translate to 100% completion) within an hour.
Student B was given 20 questions and could only managed to complete 11 questions out of 20 questions within an hour. This translate to 55% completion.
In this case, can we mock at student B for its Low percentage in completing the number of questions within an hour and conclude student A is smarter?

Put it this way, if the sales volume of treasure transaction is translated into sky everton’s case, it would deem to be a 100% sell out.

Recently, in June alone saw another 52 units moving for treasure.
The problem here is not about no one is buying, the problem here is there’s too much supply in the market and it definitely takes time for the market to absorb these unsold units, especially those mega size projects.

One point to add is that whether the project is 2200 or 100 units was decided by the developer, meaning the student has the choice of taking a one hour paper with 10 questions or 100 questions. Just like you want to argue ‘willing seller, willing buyer’, you should consistently support ‘willing student who chose the number of questions to attempt should not complain unfortunately the paper has more questions than others’.
 

weng

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Looks like a UOL monopoly along clementi avenue 1!

I frequent that area last time for some reason and would like to share that the 2 land parcels that UOL purchased used to have HDB flats on it. So, do not underestimate the potential of HDB land/flats!

that whole stretch of hdb blocks from 401 to 408 or 9... i walked home from school everyday during primary sch days... the current nan hua high school and casa clementi hdb plots were still a hilly forest with "haunted house" (i think actually some vet) lol...

i stayed in clementi central for 25yrs. nowadays i go back to clementi area 2-3 times a year... was there last week... looked at my old house which is now a soon to be completed ~40storey hdb... so nostalgic... but at the same time i see the whole clementi area from ave 1 to 6... so many skyscraper hdbs now... but still with the same roads... now ask me stay there, don't think i would want.
 
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NiShiZhu

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One point to add is that whether the project is 2200 or 100 units was decided by the developer, meaning the student has the choice of taking a one hour paper with 10 questions or 100 questions. Just like you want to argue ‘willing seller, willing buyer’, you should consistently support ‘willing student who chose the number of questions to attempt should not complain unfortunately the paper has more questions than others’.

I was trying to think hard and make connection between what u meant by students’ choice in number of questions in the assignment they choose vs my statement on “willing buyer, willing seller”. They simply don’t gel and probably you have misunderstood my point.

With no intention to offend, bro, I noticed recently your points are rather skewed when u keep using % of unsold units (especially on mega projects) to prove your point on the poor buying sentiments. You may only be telling the half truth.
I do acknowledge some projects like G&L are not selling well and have not evaded the fact that they have priced their unit in a rather obscene manner.
But in the recent past two months, I’m still seeing treasure moving around 50 plus units and Florence are also moving around 50 plus units every month and is not as gloomy as you have painted. Unless you are telling me the ura/srx/per sq foot data are lying? Obviously, these mega projects needs to take longer time to sell compared to smaller project like sky Everton.

But what I’m seeing here is there’s still some buying activities going on despite recent dampening factors like latest CM on LTV and ABSD, slow economy, higher interest rate etc.

Honestly, I’m not even impressed when sky Everton is 50% sold because it has only 200 plus units to begin with. Recent article saw a 1.3% rise in price and I’m not impressed at all as it could be a case of anomaly.

We need to look at things in totality and comment objectively.
 
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ThinkCarefully

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Care to elaborate your definition of “meet”?

Meet in terms of rentability

Rentability refers to the shortest time you can recoup from the total cost you have committed in your property. Let say u took 25 years of rental earnings to break even of what you had paid, the property could be sold after 25 years and the amount u get will be your net profit (even if you sell it at some losses of what u paid initially due to reduced lease or old/wear and tear issues).
In other words, if u buy a property that is harder to rent out, you may take a longer time to break even of what you had paid for. Then this may be deemed as poor investment cos your unit will always face the risk of being left vacant. Not forgetting the time and opportunity cost should also be factored in.
 
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