[NAS] Synology NAS owner club!

[karloil]

Thank you thank you. For now prob not a lot of users as it’s for my family but can I ask if I should get two HDD for a start first and slowly add on? I read that toshiba and WD HDD 7200rpm should suffice? Pardon me for asking stupid qns.

To answer this:

- Yes you can. Start with 2HDDs 1st, then slowly add more drives in the future. Budget and preference of yours. In my case, Hafiz suggested I can just populate 3 bays 1st but get a higher capacity drive. Great suggestion too! As it sets you for more upgrade options or set a hot-spare in the future. I did the math, I went on using all 4 bays and getting a lower capacity drive - the savings I got allowed me to purchase more RAM and NVMe. So its really up to your preference.

- I again suggest to stay clear of WD Red, you can see the various experiences of our members here (and also on other forums). I personally had so many Seagate and WD failures. I went with Toshiba as I haven't had any Toshiba (and HGST) drives failed on me.

 

[eliteFX]

I suggest going for Western Digital Ultrastar DC, the one branded under HGST. Can get from shopee or carousell.

Avoid Toshiba N300 series for NAS, they are quite unreliable. WD Red is okay, haven't failed so far.

 

[batniss]

Suggest to skip WD Red totally.

Tbh, skip any NAS drives.

 

[ghgan1]

You can try taobao or ezbuy for a fraction price using xpenology. And save your money getting nas hdd.

https://ezbuy.sg/category/?keyWords=%E8%9C%97%E7%89%9B%E6%98%9F%E9%99%85&ezspm=1.99999999.2.0.0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVyXrloZHAo

Anyone can recommend me a simple NAS setup at home prob to store media files etc and share access among my members? 2 bay 4 bay etc? My budget prob not too ex.

Which brand/model should I go for? I was looking at synology Previously on Lazada.

Should I wait for IT Fair or which is the best place to get the best price for the NAS setup? Thanks

 

[Neverland99]

For information only.

"“WD and Seagate are both shipping drive-managed SMR (DM-SMR) drives which don’t report themselves as SMR when questioned via conventional means. What’s worse, they’re shipping DM-SMR drives as “RAID” and “NAS” drives This is causing MAJOR problems – such as the latest iteration of WD REDs (WDx0EFAX replacing WDx0EFRX) being unable to be used for rebuilding RAID[56] or ZFS RAIDZ sets: They rebuiild for a while (1-2 hours), then throw errors and get kicked out of the set.”

(Since this article was published Seagate and Toshiba have also confirmed the undocumented use of shingled magnetic recording in some of their drives.)"

Article posted below ;

https://blocksandfiles.com/2020/04/14/wd-red-nas-drives-shingled-magnetic-recording/

 

[007Mi6]

People looking to purchase a NAS should clearly define their requirements. The way I see it they fall into the following categories: -

1. Storage for saving non-important information
   • For this option, there is NO emphasis on redundancy and therefore if your file is lost then its not a problem as you can re-download or re-create.
   • This kind of user should purchase a simple NAS either a 1 drive adapter or the 2 bay. If you have multiple drives then they should be setup for RAID-0 to maximise the storage capacity.
2. Storage for saving important information requiring redundancy (Work, memories - photos & videos, etc.)
   • Option 1 - fixed size secure somewhat affordable backup
     • For this option you will decide on the storage maximum size and buy 2 of the same drive.
     • This will be setup in mirror mode (RAID-1) and therefore should 1 drive fail the 2nd drive will have your back.
     • You can replace the failed drive and the NAS can auto-replicate the data providing you the redundancy.
   • Option 2 - up-gradable secure incremental backup
     • For this option you will need to plan the initial size of the drive and the potential path for upgrade.
     • The starting point for this would be a 4 bay or larger NAS with at least 3 drives installed during initial setup configured for RAID-5. This allows 1 drive to fail and be replaced without loosing data.
     • As an example, if you choose to use 4TB drives then purchase 3 of them and configure them as RAID-5.
       • The maximum storage for the NAS would be 2 of the drives 8TB (before formatting - remember there will be space loss after formatting!) as the maximum capacity.
       • If a 4th drive was added the maximum capacity would be 12TB. If a 5th drive was added,... you get the picture!

Hope this helps people figure out their requirements beforehand and therefore ask the right questions when planning to buy a NAS

Hi thanks for the guide.

I am planning for a first NAS, mainly to do:

(1) Storing of all photos and videos of family members (1TB and slowly increasing)
(2) Share photos and videos in (1) as appropriate
(3) Upload and access such media in (1) on my iPhone so as to free up space on iphone
(4) Upload and backup such media in (1) to an external service like Backblaze or AWS and also to an external HDD as 3rd copy
(5) Use NAS as a torrent machine to download certain media for consumption
(6) Access such media for consumption using iPhone or Android phone
(7) Only 2-3 person will use the system at any point in time.

I do not think I will run a VM. I am looking at DS420J with 2x or 3x WD Ultrastar 8TB for a start with SHR and slowly fill up to 4 slot over the next year when my Budget allows.

I am expecting to fill up about 100GB per week on the media consumption part, which gives me about 5TB per year.

Is DS420J suitable for me or shall I go for the DS918/920? Also, which APC should I get?

 

[hafiz116]

Hi thanks for the guide.

I am planning for a first NAS, mainly to do:

(1) Storing of all photos and videos of family members (1TB and slowly increasing)
(2) Share photos and videos in (1) as appropriate
(3) Upload and access such media in (1) on my iPhone so as to free up space on iphone
(4) Upload and backup such media in (1) to an external service like Backblaze or AWS and also to an external HDD as 3rd copy
(5) Use NAS as a torrent machine to download certain media for consumption
(6) Access such media for consumption using iPhone or Android phone
(7) Only 2-3 person will use the system at any point in time.

I do not think I will run a VM. I am looking at DS420J with 2x or 3x WD Ultrastar 8TB for a start with SHR and slowly fill up to 4 slot over the next year when my Budget allows.

I am expecting to fill up about 100GB per week on the media consumption part, which gives me about 5TB per year.

Is DS420J suitable for me or shall I go for the DS918/920? Also, which APC should I get?

Just had a quick read up on the DS420J and it appears to be a cut down version of the DS918+ so pricing should be a lot more attractive. Quick check shows that DS402J should be around $400+ vs $700+ for the DS918+

Since you are not going to be running any VM's then it does serve your purpose well. The key difference (which I do not think is an issue for you) is that its not upgradable past the 4 drive bays. The DS918+ have the ability to add an expansion unit allowing the support of up to 9 drives - OVERKILL and not recommended for your use.

For your reference, you can check the comparison of the DS420J VS DS918+ at the link below: -

https://www.synology.com/en-global/products/compare/DS420j/DS918+

One major thing you must consider when setting up is going for 3 drives rather than 2 as RAID 5 makes more sense when running 3 drives. If you put in 2 drives then you're stuck with either RAID 0 or 1. YES you can run RAID 5 on 2 drives but you will end up without redundancy as the parity blocks will be stored on 1 of the 2 drives - if that drive fails bye bye data.

When you say APC are you referring to backup battery? The Synology is pretty robust and handles power failures well. I've been using them for about 6 years and had no issues recovering from power failures.

 

[davidktw]

When you say APC are you referring to backup battery? The Synology is pretty robust and handles power failures well. I've been using them for about 6 years and had no issues recovering from power failures.

I would like to highlight on this. It is not entirely safe to assume that Synology handles power well. It's just handle normal as per any non-redundant electrical appliances. The basic Synology units has no redundancy power supply.

If I'm not mistaken, only some of the enterprise rack solution from Synology offers redundant power supplies, and even in those situation, a UPS is highly recommended on top of dual power supply from different power sources. Eg: RackStation RS4017xs+

A power failure most of the time doesn't fry your unit (which I can't attest with guarantees), but it is a known fact out there that abrupt power failure while writing to the disk can result in corrupted filesystem, or even write hole situations as described in http://www.raid-recovery-guide.com/raid5-write-hole.aspx.

File system corruption is normally not of great issue these days with journaled file systems in Unix. Synology uses either EXT4 or BTRFS, with the former more mature and stable. Both are journaled filesystem which allows for self-correction if there is any unwritten transactions. That being said, no one will prefer a rollback of data that was assumed to have been written.

This is why a UPS will be extremely useful to ensure the data integrity during write processes or when you are scrubbing your data. UPS provide temporary electrical power, but more importantly it ensure graceful shutdown of the NAS when the mains are interrupted. UPS also provide surge protection during power disruption. APC CS modes (in ASIAN) is what I will recommend. It has a serial/usb connection to the NAS and can be informed of the battery capacity available before initiating a graceful shutdown.

Synology can be configured power up itself when the power returns.

 

[batniss]

When you say APC are you referring to backup battery? The Synology is pretty robust and handles power failures well. I've been using them for about 6 years and had no issues recovering from power failures.

This is not right

 

[007Mi6]

Just had a quick read up on the DS420J and it appears to be a cut down version of the DS918+ so pricing should be a lot more attractive. Quick check shows that DS402J should be around $400+ vs $700+ for the DS918+

Since you are not going to be running any VM's then it does serve your purpose well. The key difference (which I do not think is an issue for you) is that its not upgradable past the 4 drive bays. The DS918+ have the ability to add an expansion unit allowing the support of up to 9 drives - OVERKILL and not recommended for your use.

For your reference, you can check the comparison of the DS420J VS DS918+ at the link below: -

https://www.synology.com/en-global/products/compare/DS420j/DS918+

One major thing you must consider when setting up is going for 3 drives rather than 2 as RAID 5 makes more sense when running 3 drives. If you put in 2 drives then you're stuck with either RAID 0 or 1. YES you can run RAID 5 on 2 drives but you will end up without redundancy as the parity blocks will be stored on 1 of the 2 drives - if that drive fails bye bye data.

When you say APC are you referring to backup battery? The Synology is pretty robust and handles power failures well. I've been using them for about 6 years and had no issues recovering from power failures.

Hi, thanks for your input.

I notice that DS420J is not or not yet compatible with many HGST Ultrastar and Toshiba Nearline series of HDD. Is it safe to use such HDD?

Yes it is UPS uninterrupted Power Supply. If I need to get one, which should I get?

 

[mlmooy]

Hello to all. Just a quick check...hope experienced users here can kindly assist.

Due To budget issues, I think I can only afford to buy 3x6Tb and do a raid 5, giving me 12Tb.

2 questions:

1) in future, If I buy another 6tb, can I still ‘add’ 6TB giving a total of 18Tb assuming I stick to raid5 in my 4bay drive? Will any old data be erased or Synology will build up the additional hard disk and populate it with the data?

2) also hypothetically, if I want to replace all 4 drives in future with 12Tb each, giving a total of 36TB, can I still do it one disk at a time until I managed to replace all 4 6TB with 4 12TB? Can that be done using Synology software?

Sorry if these questions are silly. But I still hope someone can clear my doubts. I am waiting eagerly for the DS420+ so been reading since.

 

[davidktw]

Hello to all. Just a quick check...hope experienced users here can kindly assist.

Due To budget issues, I think I can only afford to buy 3x6Tb and do a raid 5, giving me 12Tb.

2 questions:

1) in future, If I buy another 6tb, can I still ‘add’ 6TB giving a total of 18Tb assuming I stick to raid5 in my 4bay drive? Will any old data be erased or Synology will build up the additional hard disk and populate it with the data?

2) also hypothetically, if I want to replace all 4 drives in future with 12Tb each, giving a total of 36TB, can I still do it one disk at a time until I managed to replace all 4 6TB with 4 12TB? Can that be done using Synology software?

Sorry if these questions are silly. But I still hope someone can clear my doubts. I am waiting eagerly for the DS420+ so been reading since.

1) Expansion of existing array does not affect existing data. Yes additional disk added to the RAID5 will redistribute the data across the entire array. It is effectively a rebuilding process, however you still get to use the volume, albeit slower.

2) Yes, if you are using typical RAID5/6, adding and upgrading the disks will have to be done incrementally. You will get the total capacity only when you have fully upgraded the disks to the new minimal size. For SHR1/2, you get the option to have mixture of RAIDs to achieve 1 disk or 2 disks redundancies depending on your hard disk capacity configuration.

All these changes can be performed using the Synology web console. Whether you can hot-swap the disks will depends if your model has hot-swappable slots.

Read https://www.synology.com/en-uk/knowledgebase/DSM/tutorial/Storage/What_is_Synology_Hybrid_RAID_SHR

 

[i1magic]

Wah, this guy did a DIY NAS and then Synology sent him a DS1019 to review.

The DS1019+, eventho without dedicated graphics card can do Transcoding of up to 9 videos, that is really si bei ho. Whereas the more powerful DIY NAS can only do Transcoding up to 7 videos.

Not forgetting all the time and effort that one has to know and spent on the DIY NAS.

For buy and play, best is just get a Synology NAS I guess.

 

[Vulpix]

I would like to highlight on this. It is not entirely safe to assume that Synology handles power well. It's just handle normal as per any non-redundant electrical appliances. The basic Synology units has no redundancy power supply.

If I'm not mistaken, only some of the enterprise rack solution from Synology offers redundant power supplies, and even in those situation, a UPS is highly recommended on top of dual power supply from different power sources. Eg: RackStation RS4017xs+

A power failure most of the time doesn't fry your unit (which I can't attest with guarantees), but it is a known fact out there that abrupt power failure while writing to the disk can result in corrupted filesystem, or even write hole situations as described in http://www.raid-recovery-guide.com/raid5-write-hole.aspx.

File system corruption is normally not of great issue these days with journaled file systems in Unix. Synology uses either EXT4 or BTRFS, with the former more mature and stable. Both are journaled filesystem which allows for self-correction if there is any unwritten transactions. That being said, no one will prefer a rollback of data that was assumed to have been written.

This is why a UPS will be extremely useful to ensure the data integrity during write processes or when you are scrubbing your data. UPS provide temporary electrical power, but more importantly it ensure graceful shutdown of the NAS when the mains are interrupted. UPS also provide surge protection during power disruption. APC CS modes (in ASIAN) is what I will recommend. It has a serial/usb connection to the NAS and can be informed of the battery capacity available before initiating a graceful shutdown.

Synology can be configured power up itself when the power returns.

I wish there were smaller consumer UPS that I can squeeze into a small area just for the NAS.

 

[hafiz116]

I would like to highlight on this. It is not entirely safe to assume that Synology handles power well. It's just handle normal as per any non-redundant electrical appliances. The basic Synology units has no redundancy power supply.

If I'm not mistaken, only some of the enterprise rack solution from Synology offers redundant power supplies, and even in those situation, a UPS is highly recommended on top of dual power supply from different power sources. Eg: RackStation RS4017xs+

A power failure most of the time doesn't fry your unit (which I can't attest with guarantees), but it is a known fact out there that abrupt power failure while writing to the disk can result in corrupted filesystem, or even write hole situations as described in http://www.raid-recovery-guide.com/raid5-write-hole.aspx.

File system corruption is normally not of great issue these days with journaled file systems in Unix. Synology uses either EXT4 or BTRFS, with the former more mature and stable. Both are journaled filesystem which allows for self-correction if there is any unwritten transactions. That being said, no one will prefer a rollback of data that was assumed to have been written.

This is why a UPS will be extremely useful to ensure the data integrity during write processes or when you are scrubbing your data. UPS provide temporary electrical power, but more importantly it ensure graceful shutdown of the NAS when the mains are interrupted. UPS also provide surge protection during power disruption. APC CS modes (in ASIAN) is what I will recommend. It has a serial/usb connection to the NAS and can be informed of the battery capacity available before initiating a graceful shutdown.

Synology can be configured power up itself when the power returns.

OK let me put this into context since everyone likes to jump on people here for saying what you "think" I'm saying. I said this in my previous post: -

"When you say APC are you referring to backup battery? The Synology is pretty robust and handles power failures well. I've been using them for about 6 years and had no issues recovering from power failures."​

For Singapore where we have a relatively good power supply with little surges, I have not encountered any issues for the time I have been using Synology NAS's. I am now on my 2nd over the period of about 6 years. To correct what I said above, I would add "From my experience, the Synology is pretty robust at handling power failures,...".

In places like Malaysia, I would absolutely recommend a UPS purely for the surge protection as I have experienced PC's getting fried from a power surge before.

I currently have my Synology configured to auto-power on if it encounters power loss. I do stand firm with my statement as this is a home user environment which would be price sensitive. EVERYONE would want all the bells and whistles to protect for every eventuality but bottom line is that a UPS uses batteries that wear out over time and can be very costly.

Hope this clarifies things for those that want to nit pick!

 

[SnorlaxGorGor]

This is not right

I wish there were smaller consumer UPS that I can squeeze into a small area just for the NAS.

I see.. so if buying a NAS, also need to invest another UPS?
Any recommendations?

Posted from PCWX using iFinger

 

[davidktw]

OK let me put this into context since everyone likes to jump on people here for saying what you "think" I'm saying. I said this in my previous post: -

"When you say APC are you referring to backup battery? The Synology is pretty robust and handles power failures well. I've been using them for about 6 years and had no issues recovering from power failures."​

For Singapore where we have a relatively good power supply with little surges, I have not encountered any issues for the time I have been using Synology NAS's. I am now on my 2nd over the period of about 6 years. To correct what I said above, I would add "From my experience, the Bynology is pretty robust at handling power failures,...".

In places like Malaysia, I would absolutely recommend a UPS purely for the surge protection as I have experienced PC's getting fried from a power surge before.

I currently have my Synology configured to auto-power on if it encounters power loss. I do stand firm with my statement as this is a home user environment which would be price sensitive. EVERYONE would want all the bells and whistles to protect for every eventuality but bottom line is that a UPS uses batteries that wear out over time and can be very costly.

Hope this clarifies things for those that want to nit pick!

No one is nitpicking. We are stating the facts. You don't claim your data are in good storage if just one lighting strike is going to burn our your electronic appliances. Granted, 6 years of good years. That's very good days for you, just like 10 years of good years for me using Synology not suffering a breakdown.

I don't know where you get the good feeling that Synology NAS is robust against power surge. Maybe you have an electrical knowledge to put that into perspective, we would really like to know that from you

SGD40 dollars across 2-3 years to change the sealed lead acid battery is costly ? Maybe for some, it is costly indeed.

 

[davidktw]

I wish there were smaller consumer UPS that I can squeeze into a small area just for the NAS.

Well, not sure about your space assets to fit in an APC CS350/500 ?

 

[batniss]

I see.. so if buying a NAS, also need to invest another UPS?
Any recommendations?

Posted from PCWX using iFinger

not a must.

Recommended though

 

[davidktw]

I see.. so if buying a NAS, also need to invest another UPS?
Any recommendations?

Posted from PCWX using iFinger

APC CS350/500, personally recommended, saved me from numerous outrages due to faulty appliances at home causing power trips, lighting that induced power trips, and power outage at my area abruptly.

I also connected a power strip to the surge protection sockets that output to other appliances like router, ip camera, switches since it is available, why not use it