[CONSOLIDATED] Israel & Palestine Hamas conflict updates [History Discussion and stirring against any religion NOT ALLOWED]

Who’s fault is it that Palestine are suffering/dying now

  • Israel

    Votes: 116 15.6%
  • Hamas

    Votes: 517 69.6%
  • Others

    Votes: 110 14.8%

  • Total voters
    743

duatiaoloh

Banned
Joined
Oct 23, 2022
Messages
2,364
Reaction score
2,663


2024-06-08T182913Z2146908897RC2678AMWGFLRTRMADP3ISRAEL-PALESTINIANS-HOSTAGES.JPG

(Clockwise from top left) Former hostages Mr Almog Meir Jan, Ms Noa Argamani, Mr Andrey Kozlov and Mr Shlomi Ziv were rescued in an operation by Israeli forces on June 8.



JERUSALEM - The Israeli military’s mission to rescue four hostages was a rare operation that required weeks of planning and was given the final go-ahead just a few minutes before it commenced on June 8 morning, according to Israeli officials.
Israeli special forces, backed by the military, intelligence and air force, raided two buildings several hundred feet apart in a civilian neighbourhood in Nuseirat in the central Gaza Strip. They brought home the four hostages – Ms Noa Argamani, 26; Mr Almog Meir Jan, 22; Mr Andrey Kozlov, 27; and Mr Shlomi Ziv, 41 – alive and in good medical condition. One police officer, part of the force that led the raid, was killed.
Scores of Palestinians, including women and children, were killed during the rescue operation, according to local Gaza health officials. The Israeli military said it had targeted militants who had threatened its forces as they sought to extract the hostages. Neither the Israeli military nor Palestinian health officials provided a breakdown of civilians and combatants killed in the raid.
Israeli troops have swept through much of Gaza since their ground invasion began in late October. But they have managed to rescue only seven living hostages in three separate military operations, with roughly 120 captives remaining in Gaza. Several proposed rescue missions did not go forward for fear that the hostages or the forces would die in the process, according to two Israeli defence officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the sensitive operation.
In December, Israeli special forces tried to rescue a hostage from Hamas captivity, according to the two defense officials. Mr Sahar Baruch, an Israeli hostage, was killed during the exchange of fire and two Israeli officers were seriously wounded.
According to one of the defence officials, Israeli intelligence first learned that Ms Argamani was being held in an aboveground building near the market area of Nuseirat. More information received later indicated that three other hostages were in another building in the same section, the official added.


Rear Admiral Daniel Hagari, Israel’s military spokesperson, said Israeli officers had worked for weeks to assemble the necessary pieces for the mission. Israeli soldiers trained intensively based on models of the buildings where the hostages were believed to be held, he added.

“This was a mission in the heart of a civilian neighbourhood, where Hamas had intentionally hidden among homes where there were civilians and armed militants guarding the hostages,” Mr Hagari said. “And we must act in a way that brings those hostages home alive.”
Over the past three weeks, there were several occasions when it seemed possible to carry out the operation, but all of the attempts were cancelled, before Israeli forces were set to launch the mission, the two Israeli defence officials said.
On June 6, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel and Mr Yoav Gallant, the Israeli defence minister, met with senior defence officials again to discuss the operation’s risks and the possible scenarios, said a third Israeli official, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

The country’s leaders green-lit the rescue mission that night, the official said. But it still stood a chance of being cancelled at the last minute, Mr Hagari said.
On June 8 morning, Mr Herzi Halevi, the military’s chief of staff, and Mr Ronen Bar, the director of Israel’s Shin Bet intelligence service, both gave the final go-ahead just a few minutes before the operation started around 11am, Mr Hagari said.
He added that they chose to move in the daylight, bearing down on the two building in Nuseirat, in an attempt to catch Hamas off guard since the armed group might expect such an operation to take place at night.
The raid started simultaneously in both buildings, where the hostages were in locked rooms surrounded by armed guards, Mr Hagari said. In one building – where Ms Argamani was being held – the officers managed to take her Hamas captors by surprise, he said. In the other, Israeli forces engaged in a difficult firefight before reaching the remaining three hostages, he added.
As they recovered the captives, the officers announced by radio that “the diamonds are in our hands,” using an assigned code word, Mr Hagari said.

412638500.jpg

Palestinians at the site of an Israeli raid near the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Hospital in Deir al-Balah, central Gaza, on June 8.

They exited the buildings with Hamas militants shooting at them and firing rocket-propelled grenades, Mr Hagari said. The officers shielded the hostages with their bodies to try to protect them, and Israeli aircraft struck in and around the area, targeting the militants, he added.
Mr Khalil Daqran, a local official at Al-Aqsa Martyrs Hospital in Deir al Balah, told reporters that many Palestinians were killed and wounded during strikes near the Nuseirat market, which he said had been packed with passers-by.
Mr Hagari said that he had been told the military was aware of Palestinian casualties resulting from the operation, and that he could not confirm how many were militants. He added that Hamas had sought to fire at Israeli forces from behind civilians.
He added that “the cynical way that Hamas is using the population also to fire at our forces” was “tragic.”
The hostages were taken by car to two awaiting helicopters, Mr Hagari said. One carried Ms Argamani and the special forces officers. The second ferried the three remaining hostages and an injured police commander, who would later die from his wounds.
Around 1.30pm, the Israeli government announced that the four hostages were home.
 

duatiaoloh

Banned
Joined
Oct 23, 2022
Messages
2,364
Reaction score
2,663

412638775.jpg

Palestinians at the site of an Israeli strike on buildings in al-Nuseirat refugee camp, in central Gaza, on June 8, 2024.


CAIRO - Hamas’ armed al-Qassam Brigades said on June 8 that some hostages were killed in Israel’s hostage-freeing operation at al-Nuseirat refugee camp and nearby areas in central Gaza.
Israel, “by committing horrific massacres, was able to free some its hostages, yet it killed some others during the operation”, al-Qassam Brigades’ spokesman Abu Ubaida said in a statement on his Telegram channel.
Israeli forces rescued four hostages held by Hamas since October in a raid in Gaza on June 8, while over 200 Palestinians were killed in air strikes in the same area, according to Hamas officials, in one of the bloodiest Israeli assaults of the war.

It was not immediately clear if the hostage rescue and the Israeli air assault were part of the same operation, but both took place in Gaza’s al-Nuseirat, a densely built-up and often embattled area in the eight-month-old war between Israel and Hamas, the Palestinian territory’s ruling Islamist group.
The June 8 “operation will pose a great danger to the enemy hostages and will negatively impact their conditions and lives”, Mr Abu Ubaida added.
 

SkyShroud

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2005
Messages
20,722
Reaction score
1,330
Al-Jazeera got exposed yet again for spreading half truth inorder to drive specific narrative
Not all Gazans are brainwashed and many Gazans know very well Hamas drag them into this unwanted war.
 

YouWish

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2023
Messages
1,133
Reaction score
695
Al-Jazeera got exposed yet again for spreading half truth inorder to drive specific narrative
Not all Gazans are brainwashed and many Gazans know very well Hamas drag them into this unwanted war.

Wow that's a lot being edited out.. AJ really seems like a very unscrupulous media
 

Bumiputera

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2017
Messages
24,097
Reaction score
4,579
Some 10,000 IDF reservists have asked for mental health support, 1,000 reservist-run businesses have closed, 70,000 reservist students have been affected academically, thousands of reservists have been laid off from their jobs, and many have sought marriage counseling, according to Nifgashim, an organization that works to provide comprehensive support to reservists.

Nifgashim CEO David Solomon shared an example of how the intense wear the Israel-Hamas war is having on Israel's reserve soldiers is impacting not only their personal lives but also their IDF service. Of the 18 members of a special forces team Nifgashim works with who joined reserves on October 7, only 10 answered the call and showed up for the reserve duty in which the team is currently engaged.

"Many people are very worn out and tens of percent [of reservists] did not show up for their second or third call up," he said.

"Despite the fact that people really want to serve, they get to a crossroads and need to pick, 'do I pick my business, my family, or my country by doing reserve duty? That is the present situation."

The intense burnout felt by reservists does not only affect their ability to continue serving, but their personal life, families, workplaces, and businesses, said Solomon.

https://www.msn.com/en-sg/news/othe...1&cvid=3c1ec811791642cebccd6df52f117ef2&ei=21
 

Bam25th

Master Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2020
Messages
4,439
Reaction score
3,000
I only admitted there were no new major wars during Trump's presidency but you haven't sufficiently back up why or how its creditablle to Trump. Trump's own secretary of state Rex Tillison who is the president's chief foreign affairs adviser calls him a "moron". His chief of staff John Kelly calls him "the most flawed person" he's ever met. His chairman of Joint chief of staff calls hiim a "wannabe dictator". These folks are his innner circle. Why do you think Russia is interested in cutting deals when Putin's intention is land grab and taking whole of Ukraine in three days. Its makes totally no sense.

Putin invaded 10 years ago, in 2014. He stole Crimea and much of Donbas, both being Ukraine's land. Then his invaders stayed there--including all through the years of Trump's presidency--mass-murdering, torturing, and stealing from the Ukrainians. You seriously didn't know that? What did you think? That Putin stole Crimea and parts of Donbas, then left completely and gave them back to Ukraine for the 4 years Trump was in power, and then instantly moved back in and re-conquered Crimea and parts of Donbas only after Biden came to power? Or did you really, truly, not know that there was ever any war Putin made in Ukraine from 2014 through February 2022? February 2022, you'll find if you bothered, was an escalation of Putin's already-existing Ukraine War.

You can't claim Trump can stop wars by cutting deals on Ukraine on one hand and having a tough guy image next by showing readiness to go war in Gaza. Its contradictory.It also makes no sense for either president because the IDF is more than capable of handling Hamas. This is truly where the result speak for itself. Where does Trump's fear factor emanate from? You goto war to look tough not through bickering with authoritarians like Kim. What you need to understand is psychopathic narcissist feel grandiose, self-important and exaggerate to the point of lying about their accomplishments and skills. They obsesses with fantasies of unlimited success, fearsome power or omnipotence. They put a premium on appearance over substance and react with a siege mentality, aggressively and vindictively to such perceived narcissistic injuries and humiliations.

So no. The result doesn't speak for itself when its speculative beyond reason at your level. :s13:
Well, you did a lot of speculation and inference yourself.

Also, our perspectives are totally different. You can ask the people of Crimea, do they prefer to belong to Ukraine or Russia. If I am a Crimea resident, I can assure you that my answer will definitely be whoever who can let me live in peace and relative prosperity. What mass murduring, torturing and stealing? What news have you been reading? Donbas and Crimea is better off with Russia, since they are culturally and linguistically closer to Russia, and post-landgrab, the main troublemaker is Ukraine (you can argue that the land grab shouldn’t have happened to begin with, but you can’t deny that the main troublemaker is Ukraine post-landgrab).

IDF is more than capable of handling Hamas? So what are we seeing today? How many months has passed since October? Why is the war still ongoing? Obviously IDF is not as capable as you implies, and a USA troops involvement from the start would likely make tons of difference….


To me, Trump is very straightforward and transparent. His agenda is very clear, and understandable to all. Biden, on the other hand, takes into consideration too many variables, and ends up causing more harm as he can’t fulfils the wishes of all.

So, if you ask me, Biden and his administration’s fault is that they tried too hard, and end up going nowhere. And that is the primarily reason why I find it hard to support them.
 

cal127

High Supremacy Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2002
Messages
28,857
Reaction score
3,624
Well, you did a lot of speculation and inference yourself.

Also, our perspectives are totally different. You can ask the people of Crimea, do they prefer to belong to Ukraine or Russia. If I am a Crimea resident, I can assure you that my answer will definitely be whoever who can let me live in peace and relative prosperity. What mass murduring, torturing and stealing? What news have you been reading? Donbas and Crimea is better off with Russia, since they are culturally and linguistically closer to Russia, and post-landgrab, the main troublemaker is Ukraine (you can argue that the land grab shouldn’t have happened to begin with, but you can’t deny that the main troublemaker is Ukraine post-landgrab).

IDF is more than capable of handling Hamas? So what are we seeing today? How many months has passed since October? Why is the war still ongoing? Obviously IDF is not as capable as you implies, and a USA troops involvement from the start would likely make tons of difference….


To me, Trump is very straightforward and transparent. His agenda is very clear, and understandable to all. Biden, on the other hand, takes into consideration too many variables, and ends up causing more harm as he can’t fulfils the wishes of all.

So, if you ask me, Biden and his administration’s fault is that they tried too hard, and end up going nowhere. And that is the primarily reason why I find it hard to support them.

There's no speculation or inference on Crimea. Those are facts. There's nothing complicated if you know history. Short version. In the 18th century Catherine the great defeated the Crimean Khanate - then a vassal of the Ottoman empire - and Crimea became part of Russia. It was "given" to Ukraine by Kruschev in 1954. Since the fall of the Soviet Union, it was briefly an autonomous republic, but has been part of Ukraine until it was annexed in 2014 by Putin. Crimea belongs to Ukraine and part of its sovereignty. You might as well say S'pore used to be part of M'sia and its okay to allow them to conquer us because we share some similarities. Let's ask every Sinkie if they want to join back with M'sia as an appeasement to the aggressor. Ridiculous. I'm afraid you have been fooled and misguided by Russia's propaganda. Did you mean "Crimeans" as in those that were recently resettled there who want to join back with Russia?

Russia has been actively trying to increase the size of its “loyal” population by promoting and encouraging the in-migration of its citizens to Crimea. According to the Office of the Federal State Statistics Service in Crimea and Sevastopol, since 2014, 205,559 Russians moved to Crimea, of whom 88,445 settled in Sevastopol (Crimeahrg.org, January 6). As of January 2021, the population of Sevastopol was 513,149 (Goroda Rossii, accessed March 14).

https://jamestown.org/program/demog...migration-as-part-of-russias-hybrid-strategy/

Not to mention the referandum vote was rigged and widely condemned.

https://www.cfr.org/interview/why-crimean-referendum-illegitimate
https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulro...lection-results-only-15-voted-for-annexation/

Its a slow genocide, theft and population displacement in Crimea. Source.

https://www.politico.eu/article/murder-putin-draft-target-crimea-tatars/
https://zmina.info/en/news-en/russi...mporarily-occupied-peninsula-mufti-of-crimea/

Your complaint against the IDF's competence is its taking too long to defeat Hamas? Lol. You are dealing with a bunch of militants who are playing hide n seek in tunnels. This isn't a conventional war. IDF can choose to turn the whole of Gaza into a parking lot if so chooses. IDF's technological superiority and massed weaponry against Hamas isn't even up for debate. Last I checked over 38k Palestinians many more wounded vs about a thousand over israelis were killed since Oct 7. What metrics did you use to determine it was a failure?

That's just your opinion that doesn't shed light on anything new. People don't care about"agendas". They only care about their pockets, the economy and Biden has a better track record given those circumtances. Here's another summary.

https://washingtonmonthly.com/2024/04/07/trump-vs-biden-who-got-more-done-on-legislation/

Seeing your analysis continuously makes little or no sense with almost nothing to back them up I don't see how any rationale sensible person will be convinced by your reasoning. Unless you don't really give a damn. :s13:
 
Last edited:

Bam25th

Master Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2020
Messages
4,439
Reaction score
3,000
There's no speculation or inference on Crimea. Those are facts. There's nothing complicated if you know history. Short version. In the 18th century Catherine the great defeated the Crimean Khanate - then a vassal of the Ottoman empire - and Crimea became part of Russia. It was "given" to Ukraine by Kruschev in 1954. Since the fall of the Soviet Union, it was briefly an autonomous republic, but has been part of Ukraine until it was annexed in 2014 by Putin. Crimea belongs to Ukraine and part of its sovereignty. You might as well say S'pore used to be part of M'sia and its okay to allow them to conquer us because we share some similarities. Let's ask every Sinkie if they want to join back with M'sia as an appeasement to the aggressor. Ridiculous. I'm afraid you have been fooled and misguided by Russia's propaganda. Did you mean "Crimeans" as in those that were recently resettled there who want to join back with Russia?



https://jamestown.org/program/demog...migration-as-part-of-russias-hybrid-strategy/

Not to mention the referandum vote was rigged and widely condemned.

https://www.cfr.org/interview/why-crimean-referendum-illegitimate
https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulro...lection-results-only-15-voted-for-annexation/

Its a slow genocide, theft and population displacement in Crimea. Source.

https://www.politico.eu/article/murder-putin-draft-target-crimea-tatars/
https://zmina.info/en/news-en/russi...mporarily-occupied-peninsula-mufti-of-crimea/

Your complaint against the IDF's competence is its taking too long to defeat Hamas? Lol. You are dealing with a bunch of militants who are playing hide n seek in tunnels. This isn't a conventional war. IDF can choose to turn the whole of Gaza into a parking lot if so chooses. IDF's technological superiority and massed weaponry against Hamas isn't even up for debate. Last I checked over 38k Palestinians many more wounded vs about a thousand over israelis were killed since Oct 7. What metrics did you use to determine it was a failure?

That's just your opinion that doesn't shed light on anything new. People don't care about"agendas". They only care about their pockets, the economy and Biden has a better track record given those circumtances. Here's another summary.

https://washingtonmonthly.com/2024/04/07/trump-vs-biden-who-got-more-done-on-legislation/

Seeing your analysis continuously makes little or no sense with almost nothing to back them up I don't see how any rationale sensible person will be convinced by your reasoning. Unless you don't really give a damn. :s13:
It’s the same to me, your arguments and analysis makes no sense to me either. Quoting those sources have no value either.

Worse, you quoted history that was before anyone here was born.

If given a choice between sufferings and death, most would choose peace even if it meant under a different nationality. Heck, even without war, more than 10% of Singaporeans had migrated overseas to countries such as Australia and Canada.

And even IDF admitted the war is going nowhere. If that isn’t incompetence, what is? Can USA army make the decisive difference? Maybe, but with is still better than without.
 
Important Forum Advisory Note
This forum is moderated by volunteer moderators who will react only to members' feedback on posts. Moderators are not employees or representatives of HWZ. Forum members and moderators are responsible for their own posts.

Please refer to our Community Guidelines and Standards, Terms of Service and Member T&Cs for more information.
Top