Is it really over for Intel®?

Intel is ...

  • dead man walking, soon to be buried

    Votes: 58 50.9%
  • will bounce back, buyed Intc at $10 sure huat!

    Votes: 56 49.1%

  • Total voters
    114

fkchon

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Had it for the AMD builds, It was doing 8200 on a 4 dimm B650 board so I think the binning they give is quite good.

I'm looking at Teamgroup Xtreem cudimm 8800 I think that doesn't have RGB and the cooler is easy to remove.
 

Encrypted11

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OnOCbj6.jpeg

R5xIcAT.jpeg


6400B AHBD SK Hynix Green CUDIMMs on taobao. 1x32GB dual rank. Seller has both locked and unlocked PMICs, ask seller for unlocked for OC.
About S$370 for 2 before GST.

If 48GB 5600 MGBD ES does 7600MT/s GSAT at 1.5V, albeit higher tRFC and CAS, this will likely do better. Anecdotally A-die does tighter tRFC.

Iceman 144rmb ea
 

fkchon

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6400B AHBD SK Hynix Green CUDIMMs on taobao. 1x32GB dual rank. Seller has both locked and unlocked PMICs, ask seller for unlocked for OC.
About S$370 for 2 before GST.

If 48GB 5600 MGBD ES does 7600MT/s GSAT at 1.5V, albeit higher tRFC and CAS, this will likely do better. Anecdotally A-die does tighter tRFC.

Iceman 144rmb ea

Good pricing but theres no guarantee you can get peak performance above 8400MTs, I think any M Die will be able to hit 8000 though.

Sometimes you have to pay more for better binning to go faster.
 

Encrypted11

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Good pricing but theres no guarantee you can get peak performance above 8400MTs, I think any M Die will be able to hit 8000 though.

Sometimes you have to pay more for better binning to go faster.
No binning needed. In fact many non-top tier module house kits are "downbinned". Plus sponsored overclockers will take the best cut, top bin sold with RGB and top dollar forced on. Apart from top bin, do the tRFC test and run it in the 480 range, there's a good chance it will crap out. Once you disassemble the heat sink, its non-reversible unlike OEMs.

AGBD single side 16GB era, OEM Black Klevv and OEM SK Hynix Greens are guaranteed 8400-8600MT/s tight without the help of a CKD on Z790 Apex (with no manufacturing defects). IMC was RPL bottleneck.

If your target is 8600 (On Z890 Apex/OCF), non-CKD SK Hynix AGBD Greens 5600B UDIMM, ~330RMB. Put the rest of the money on RAM blocks.

Ask HWZ RAM Sifus, @matique @elmariachi

If really need to bin, buy 4 sell 2 on carousell. Even the best 2 will easily touch or surpass the typical module house bin. Users like sugil0ver are sponsored or semi-sponsored, when they promote a gskill or other module house product it will feel like an ad, but when its OEM greens the vibe is gone.

Edit: The renesas PMIC on Klevvs are abit more picky with getting the right voltages at each speed tier. Greens are straightforward. DDR5 has totally changed the rules of buying DIMMs over DDR4.

The OCN posts that can read more are from users like veii, stilt, tibcsi, falkentyne (doesnt really do ram) etc.
Sugil0ver, centvalny etc can take it as posting on behalf of their respective "OC teams". The most they will post is a dangwang <200% ram test coverage, when dangwang testing needs 20000%+.
 
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Phen8210

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buy 4, then the other 2 sell to him, he will buy from you since he always indirectly selling his 2 leftover here too 🙃
 

matique

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No binning needed. In fact many non-top tier module house kits are "downbinned". Plus sponsored overclockers will take the best cut, top bin sold with RGB and top dollar forced on. Apart from top bin, do the tRFC test and run it in the 480 range, there's a good chance it will crap out. Once you disassemble the heat sink, its non-reversible unlike OEMs.

AGBD single side 16GB era, OEM Black Klevv and OEM SK Hynix Greens are guaranteed 8400-8600MT/s tight without the help of a CKD on Z790 Apex (with no manufacturing defects). IMC was RPL bottleneck.

If your target is 8600 (On Z890 Apex/OCF), non-CKD SK Hynix AGBD Greens 5600B UDIMM, ~330RMB. Put the rest of the money on RAM blocks.

Ask HWZ RAM Sifus, @matique @elmariachi

If really need to bin, buy 4 sell 2 on carousell. Even the best 2 will easily touch or surpass the typical module house bin. Users like sugil0ver are sponsored or semi-sponsored, when they promote a gskill or other module house product it will feel like an ad, but when its OEM greens the vibe is gone.

Edit: The renesas PMIC on Klevvs are abit more picky with getting the right voltages at each speed tier. Greens are straightforward. DDR5 has totally changed the rules of buying DIMMs over DDR4.

The OCN posts that can read more are from users like veii, stilt, tibcsi, falkentyne (doesnt really do ram) etc.
Sugil0ver, centvalny etc can take it as posting on behalf of their respective "OC teams". The most they will post is a dangwang <200% ram test coverage, when dangwang testing needs 20000%+.
8000+ H24M will all be quite decent for daily tune tbh. New 6000c26 kits are hit and miss, at least on AMD. They do require lower voltages though. Gskill has been putting our CKD and non CKD variants of 6000c26 kits, with different PCB variants as well, but supposedly they all require less voltage than older sticks. One thing that's good is that better binned D5 is not as expensive now.

With regards to greensticks; due to the nature of needing to pmic override these kits, the voltage set =/= get. It will droop a little, for example I have 1.65v set, and 1.62v get. My sticks are running a bit high voltage though, as it was a late 2022 batch of greens.

8000c34-karhu-30000.webp


I've played with better kits, unfortunately my board is only properly stable (karhu, occt, dangwang, YC) at 8000c34 max. 8200c34 can be stabilised but it suffers from boot to boot instability. I.e. Stable at one boot, and a reboot makes them unstable, and another reboot makes it stable again...

I do wish I got a 285K though + actual gskill kits, so that I can participate in the gskill open comp lol. But not worth it for me haha.
 

Encrypted11

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MSI hasn't really optimized ODTs and slopes beyond 8000 in our Z690-Z790I era, the primary bottleneck for cold bootable higher MHz.

Some of these numbers were held close to heart by Asus OC team, though limited to halo boards. Glad there's clon22/shamino era Nick Shih back in the game. MSI is still good (stable unlike dodgy gigabyte bioses), except that they fudged the last 400MHz or so relative to the competition :crazy:. Quad M2 on ITX is sick though.

I think if Z890 came with JHL9580 powered dual TB5.0 it would have been more competitive.
 

Encrypted11

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Good to know. I already have the Teamgroup Xtreem on the way. I could potentially explore these no brand green sticks when I need more performance in the future.

Definitely sic when build is ready, HWZ not an arms race/epeen forum like OCN. SG DIY space many are too "safe" in the name of warranty void when we're way past the C2D and Phenom black era. Don't let the fanboys soil the SG tech discussion environment. The info, timings, ss users share are worth time and money, and time is not free.

Here's my old ss on RAMs, but older system though. Very good that RAM MHz is going up, but I had good latency numbers on a 7.2L ITX, I test at 60-65C PMIC for RAMs because it is a toaster. Borrowing waifu/gf hairdryer is a good way to make RAM temps hit steady state target temp within a minute.

hCyBu4x.png

HtRwSbc.png


Edit: from non-CKD AGBD your only upgrade path is AHBD, naked DIMMs or module house.
 

fkchon

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Definitely sic when build is ready, HWZ not an arms race/epeen forum like OCN. SG DIY space many are too "safe" in the name of warranty void when we're way past the C2D and Phenom black era. Don't let the fanboys soil the SG tech discussion environment. The info, timings, ss users share are worth time and money, and time is not free.

Here's my old ss on RAMs, but older system though. Very good that RAM MHz is going up, but I had good latency numbers on a 7.2L ITX, I test at 60-65C PMIC for RAMs because it is a toaster. Borrowing waifu/gf hairdryer is a good way to make RAM temps hit steady state target temp within a minute.

hCyBu4x.png

HtRwSbc.png


Edit: from non-CKD AGBD your only upgrade path is AHBD, naked DIMMs or module house.
Very impressive tuning.

I have no plans of starting arms war here lol. My only goal is to explore what is possible on this platform, every reviewer seems to neglect this platform, they only show bare minimum overclocking and they put it side by side against AMD platform that requires bare minimum tuning. I think Intel platforms have always required some fiddling around to extract a good amount of performance so I'm just trying find the real tuned performance is like on this platform.
 

matique

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Definitely sic when build is ready, HWZ not an arms race/epeen forum like OCN. SG DIY space many are too "safe" in the name of warranty void when we're way past the C2D and Phenom black era. Don't let the fanboys soil the SG tech discussion environment. The info, timings, ss users share are worth time and money, and time is not free.

Here's my old ss on RAMs, but older system though. Very good that RAM MHz is going up, but I had good latency numbers on a 7.2L ITX, I test at 60-65C PMIC for RAMs because it is a toaster. Borrowing waifu/gf hairdryer is a good way to make RAM temps hit steady state target temp within a minute.

hCyBu4x.png

HtRwSbc.png


Edit: from non-CKD AGBD your only upgrade path is AHBD, naked DIMMs or module house.

I think because i pushed TRFC to lowest it can be and maxed out trefi, i had to push voltage quite a bit...Maybe one day when I am not too lazy i will revisit timings and voltages. Temps not an issue since ram is watercooled, but yours is impressive for being air cooled. Your Tras is following the tRAS = tRCD + tRTP formula? Heard irl it's better performance vs flooring it.
 

Encrypted11

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I think because i pushed TRFC to lowest it can be and maxed out trefi, i had to push voltage quite a bit...Maybe one day when I am not too lazy i will revisit timings and voltages. Temps not an issue since ram is watercooled, but yours is impressive for being air cooled. Your Tras is following the tRAS = tRCD + tRTP formula? Heard irl it's better performance vs flooring it.
No idea, I just followed and learn the efficiency optimized style of tuning sic'd by tibcsi and veii on OCN. Veii occasionally quotes or shares documents/papers from JEDEC or JEDEC members etc that has an influence on his tuning style. My 8000MT/s profile was achieved on Jan 2023 when MSI released the major BIOS update that brought in many missing controls like Ring Downbin and more advanced dram training algo access to users, never made a better tune since apart from replicating what worked or scaled it to 48/96GB.

But this style of tuning is definitely more temperature tolerant, i've seen even 5600-~6000 C26 or so high temp tolerant profiles (tested above 75C PMIC) from users like carsalesman etc also influenced by veii posts. But to me maxed tREFI is something cool that I can't reach, since it needs fantastic cooling. :s13:
 

matique

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No idea, I just followed and learn the efficiency optimized style of tuning sic'd by tibcsi and veii on OCN. Veii occasionally quotes or shares documents/papers from JEDEC or JEDEC members etc that has an influence on his tuning style. My 8000MT/s profile was achieved on Jan 2023 when MSI released the major BIOS update that brought in many missing controls like Ring Downbin and more advanced dram training algo access to users, never made a better tune since apart from replicating what worked or scaled it to 48/96GB.

But this style of tuning is definitely more temperature tolerant, i've seen even 5600-~6000 C26 or so high temp tolerant profiles (tested above 75C PMIC) from users like carsalesman etc also influenced by veii posts. But to me maxed tREFI is something cool that I can't reach, since it needs fantastic cooling. :s13:
Oh no, the veii cult haha. Just cross reference with others; sometimes his posts might be a bit off tangent. For high temp testing, I refer to Madness, though he doesn't post much on OCN. Does so on private discord :)
 

fkchon

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Is Veii an employee for Asrock or something? he made a special fix for latency bug in Z890 OCF bios.

My OCF and 8800 Cudimm just arrive in SG maybe delivery tomorrow.

Note to everyone: Thermaltake Tower 600 claims to fit 420mm radiator, it doesn't. Got the Arctic Freezer 420 it don't fit by width, it don't fit by length and it also don't fit by height. Had to DIY modify to make it fit. Now the bottom mesh filter won't close :ROFLMAO:
 

Encrypted11

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No idea, power user + maybe closely linked to some AMI (American Megatrends Inc) employee or something, knows a lot about AMI Aptio V based BIOSes. When MB vendors make a good product, forumers like stilt and veii becomes one more level of QA for them :s13:. Like ROG Crosshair + stilt/elmor.
 

matique

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Is Veii an employee for Asrock or something? he made a special fix for latency bug in Z890 OCF bios.

My OCF and 8800 Cudimm just arrive in SG maybe delivery tomorrow.

Note to everyone: Thermaltake Tower 600 claims to fit 420mm radiator, it doesn't. Got the Arctic Freezer 420 it don't fit by width, it don't fit by length and it also don't fit by height. Had to DIY modify to make it fit. Now the bottom mesh filter won't close :ROFLMAO:

Not officially, yet. Who knows, in the future. His CPU is sponsored by Intel, ram sponsored by gskill. TG sponsors him to some capacity as well iirc. Board probably loaned by asrock, idk.

Each team sponsors enthusiasts that work closely with them for closed beta etc. Asus has the largest stack, I know a few of them. Even smaller companies like Maxsun has their OC /beta teams outside of China. Someone I know is working on the Z890 vertex.
 

fkchon

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Fresh install just enable XMP, no bios updates its running on the first OCF bios.
Z3dvMsd.png



It would appear Apex is slightly faster with latency out of the box although its not running CUDIMM.
XtU57mf.png


All these games shader compiles so fast now and the temps are so cool.
3Ayhtkq.png


TIDC7nl.png

I love this CPU and this platform. Still got lots of tuning to do.

If you're wondering why I have 2 285K system its because Apex is in New Zealand and I use OCF in SG.
YDtT8Ow.png
 

fkchon

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I know Asrock CPU quality is dynamic but I didn't expect this big change

8YpRtHQ.png
 

fkchon

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Tuning is super easy on this platform and the stability seems very good as well.

W1jdjsU.png


Does anyone have any idea why I can't change the timings real time with Asrock Timing Configurator? Ignore the screenshot above but I tried putting Realtime Timing to enabled in bios before as well and the app also show enabled but still wouldn't let me change any timing.

I also need to figure out how to OC D2D higher than 34x and Ring higher than 40x. The naming for things in the bios are quite a bit different from the ASUS stuff I'm used to.
 
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fkchon

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Making progress, hopefully I get 1ns down everyday haha

pATU0hF.png


4K Ultra Preset + DLSS DLAA + Raytracing High - had 21777 prior to the CPU tweaks. Think I can squeeze out more performance if I can get more tighter tuning to CPU.
0OalaZt.png


4K Ultra preset nothing else touched in the settings
AZAUPUw.png

I saw on the AMD AM5 thread with similar 4K Ultra preset, almost 10k lower score but about 20fps higher with 7900XTX. I don't understand how this benchmark works at all.
 
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