What can we do?

[V_for_Vanilla]

Is it really safe to rely on dividend payout for our financial freedom? Whats the catch here? Can we really quit our job after we have achieved total monthly dividend $$$ more than our salary? If its that easy.. why are so many people still struggling in their day job? I once had a conversation with my friend. I talked about how we can achieve freedom on investing and get dividend income. He said his mum invested and lost huge amount of her saving. So he never believe in investing and dividend. He called it BS.

I am really sick and tired of my job now. What is the purpose of our life if we need to stuck in our job for most of our life time?

Sorry for being so negative now. I went to visit one of my friend's father in ICU recently. He is in critical condition. He is a very hardworking person. He never have time to enjoy his life. Being a victim of the "system", he spend his whole life supporting his family and now he ended up in this situation.

I cant help but feel really sad for him and for most of us who need to work and work and work till we die. Is our life really all about working to survive? DW is my inspiration.

I strongly believe no job is worth it. No matter how high your salary is or how fast you can climb the ladder. You are still working for others and you do not have the "real" freedom at all.

Dividend or fixed income payouts are as safe as their mother shares or issuers. Our retirement CPF payouts, considered guaranteed and risk free, also come from returns invested in such products. I have suffered losses in my own stocks investing journey. Instead of giving up on the market I try to learn from the experiences. In the long run I have gained more. That does not mean things will continue to turn out fine tomorrow or next year. But the risk of uncertainty can be managed and mitigated according to one's own risk appetite. In the early part of my working life I fussed and stressed, switched and go through different jobs with the aim of improving my salary. Most of the time going nowhere and feeling frustrated. Thanks to my own investing and staying in the market, I have reached some degree of financial freedom some years ago. From then on work takes on a different meaning. Since salary is no longer a big consideration, work is no longer a burden or measured in terms of "worth it". Today I am still working for others. I chose less salary in return for more flexibility. I don't feel I have sacrificed my "freedom" at all. Just a different perspective from a lazy salaryman.

 

[havetheveryfun]

Dividend or fixed income payouts are as safe as their mother shares or issuers. Our retirement CPF payouts, considered guaranteed and risk free, also come from returns invested in such products. I have suffered losses in my own stocks investing journey. Instead of giving up on the market I try to learn from the experiences. In the long run I have gained more. That does not mean things will continue to turn out fine tomorrow or next year. But the risk of uncertainty can be managed and mitigated according to one's own risk appetite. In the early part of my working life I fussed and stressed, switched and go through different jobs with the aim of improving my salary. Most of the time going nowhere and feeling frustrated. Thanks to my own investing and staying in the market, I have reached some degree of financial freedom some years ago. From then on work takes on a different meaning. Since salary is no longer a big consideration, work is no longer a burden or measured in terms of "worth it". Today I am still working for others. I chose less salary in return for more flexibility. I don't feel I have sacrificed my "freedom" at all. Just a different perspective from a lazy salaryman.

just curious so did u manage to stay in a job for a long time after sometime in your early working life or did you manage to find a job with a salary which you liked? (before you reached your definition of financial freedom)

 

[Tony Sim]

Is it really safe to rely on dividend payout for our financial freedom? Whats the catch here? Can we really quit our job after we have achieved total monthly dividend $$$ more than our salary? If its that easy.. why are so many people still struggling in their day job? I once had a conversation with my friend. I talked about how we can achieve freedom on investing and get dividend income. He said his mum invested and lost huge amount of her saving. So he never believe in investing and dividend. He called it BS.

I am really sick and tired of my job now. What is the purpose of our life if we need to stuck in our job for most of our life time?

Sorry for being so negative now. I went to visit one of my friend's father in ICU recently. He is in critical condition. He is a very hardworking person. He never have time to enjoy his life. Being a victim of the "system", he spend his whole life supporting his family and now he ended up in this situation.

I cant help but feel really sad for him and for most of us who need to work and work and work till we die. Is our life really all about working to survive? DW is my inspiration.

I strongly believe no job is worth it. No matter how high your salary is or how fast you can climb the ladder. You are still working for others and you do not have the "real" freedom at all.

Lets get the maths straight. What is your expenses like? If you need about $3K per month, than the dividend per year required is around $36K. If you are risk averse and invest in only bank shares for dividend, than you would need a capital of $1 mil. Not many Singaporean have that kind of investable funds.

 

[havetheveryfun]

In my early working life I never held down a job for more than three years, often less. Even when I liked the job the pay factor still lingered at the back of my mind. Salary wise I am a perennial underachiever. That was what prompted me to explore investing instead of relying on a career.

3 yrs quite long leh.. nowadays a lot ppl 1~2 yrs already look to change job..

But if u underachiever in yr salary then also harder to invest cos lesser money to save haha

 

[ValueInvestor]

3 yrs quite long leh.. nowadays a lot ppl 1~2 yrs already look to change job..

But if u underachiever in yr salary then also harder to invest cos lesser money to save haha

Actually a lot depends on how u manage your expenses de, i know of people taking home 2k but can save 1.5k a month, spend $500 nia. Stay with parents, weekends at home pak computer.

I also know of people taking home 5k but keep saying cannot save $$, yet go holidays and hold expensive weddings

 

[havetheveryfun]

Actually a lot depends on how u manage your expenses de, i know of people taking home 2k but can save 1.5k a month, spend $500 nia. Stay with parents, weekends at home pak computer.

I also know of people taking home 5k but keep saying cannot save $$, yet go holidays and hold expensive weddings

take home 2k means earn at least 2.4k-2.5k before CPF.. think about half of the population earn less than that actually..

save 1.5k also means only 18k a year, after 10 years only 180k, at 5% yield that is 9000 a month or 750$ a month.. provided their savings dont get wiped out from buying a house or wedding

 

[V_for_Vanilla]

3 yrs quite long leh.. nowadays a lot ppl 1~2 yrs already look to change job..

But if u underachiever in yr salary then also harder to invest cos lesser money to save haha

No choice, sacrifices must be made in order to rein in expenses. It is tough but it helps I am single and have no family commitments. If one is able to earn high salaries from work it is a head start and investing becomes relatively more risky, since getting high pay every month is certain and risk free. A friend of mine whose pay package is 300-400k a year does not invest in stocks at all. He does invest in property though.

 

[ValueInvestor]

take home 2k means earn at least 2.4k-2.5k before CPF.. think about half of the population earn less than that actually..

save 1.5k also means only 18k a year, after 10 years only 180k, at 5% yield that is 9000 a month or 750$ a month.. provided their savings dont get wiped out from buying a house or wedding

yup

road to financial freedom is not easy for sure

 

[QNH1013]

Is it really safe to rely on dividend payout for our financial freedom? Whats the catch here? Can we really quit our job after we have achieved total monthly dividend $$$ more than our salary? If its that easy.. why are so many people still struggling in their day job? I once had a conversation with my friend. I talked about how we can achieve freedom on investing and get dividend income. He said his mum invested and lost huge amount of her saving. So he never believe in investing and dividend. He called it BS.

I am really sick and tired of my job now. What is the purpose of our life if we need to stuck in our job for most of our life time?

Sorry for being so negative now. I went to visit one of my friend's father in ICU recently. He is in critical condition. He is a very hardworking person. He never have time to enjoy his life. Being a victim of the "system", he spend his whole life supporting his family and now he ended up in this situation.

I cant help but feel really sad for him and for most of us who need to work and work and work till we die. Is our life really all about working to survive? DW is my inspiration.

I strongly believe no job is worth it. No matter how high your salary is or how fast you can climb the ladder. You are still working for others and you do not have the "real" freedom at all.

Hi TS,

IMO you have to seek your own purpose in life. Too many people see financial freedom as an end in itself, instead of a way to fulfill a higher calling.

If hypothetically you do manage to gain enough "passive income" such that all expenses are covered and you never have to work again, then what next? I see many people with the fantasy of giving their boss (and maybe some colleagues) the finger, quitting their job, and living a life of leisure thereafter (be it staying at home playing computer games forever, or travelling the world etc).

I guess for many of us who are employees, we get turned on just thinking of that. But once the joy of that wears of, we are left with a bigger question. What are we living for?

Some of us are fortunate to have a passion for a line of work or a hobby which we can work as a living. Those even more fortunate, are able to make really good money doing what they love. But sadly, only a few of us fall into that category.

If you're sick and tired of your job, I reckon you either:

1) find little meaning in your job, other than to earn an income

2) find meaning in it, but the working environment is too stressful

in either scenario, a certain degree of financial freedom would allow you to either work less, and do something which you love with the extra time, or quit and do something that you love but doesn't pay as well.

You mentioned about someone being a 'victim of the system'. You never specified what the 'system' was, but I am going to hazard a guess that even though the system is far from perfect, it has given us most of what we have in the modern world. Take a look at the things and services which we all use everyday. A large part of them would not have been possible without the millions of people around the world working as employees of companies large and small.

If a person is able to create enough investment income so that he doesn't have to rely on a salary for a living, chances are he has benefited more than most from this system, and I would only think that it would be his duty to contribute back in some way, using his resources (capital/time/skills) for the benefit of those less fortunate, trying to find a way to improve the system, or simply just by being good at his job.

Ultimately, I would say again that it is up to you to seek your own purpose in life, and financial freedom is a just a means to that, and not an end in itself. Meanwhile, be thankful for what we already have (even though it may not be much), and enjoy what you can in life


I leave with a short story:

Two close boyhood friends grow up and go their separate ways. One becomes a humble monk, the other a rich and powerful minister to the king.

Years later they meet. As they catch up, the minister (in his fine robes) takes pity on the thin, shabby monk. Seeking to help, he says:

“You know, if you could learn to cater to the king you wouldn’t have to live on rice and beans.”

To which the monk replies:

“If you could learn to live on rice and beans you wouldn’t have to cater to the king.”

Most of us would fall somewhere in between these two. And it is up to you to decide which side you would want to lean towards.

Cheers!

 

[ValueInvestor]

Hi TS,

IMO you have to seek your own purpose in life. Too many people see financial freedom as an end in itself, instead of a way to fulfill a higher calling.

If hypothetically you do manage to gain enough "passive income" such that all expenses are covered and you never have to work again, then what next? I see many people with the fantasy of giving their boss (and maybe some colleagues) the finger, quitting their job, and living a life of leisure thereafter (be it staying at home playing computer games forever, or travelling the world etc).

I guess for many of us who are employees, we get turned on just thinking of that. But once the joy of that wears of, we are left with a bigger question. What are we living for?

Some of us are fortunate to have a passion for a line of work or a hobby which we can work as a living. Those even more fortunate, are able to make really good money doing what they love. But sadly, only a few of us fall into that category.

If you're sick and tired of your job, I reckon you either:

1) find little meaning in your job, other than to earn an income

2) find meaning in it, but the working environment is too stressful

in either scenario, a certain degree of financial freedom would allow you to either work less, and do something which you love with the extra time, or quit and do something that you love but doesn't pay as well.

You mentioned about someone being a 'victim of the system'. You never specified what the 'system' was, but I am going to hazard a guess that even though the system is far from perfect, it has given us most of what we have in the modern world. Take a look at the things and services which we all use everyday. A large part of them would not have been possible without the millions of people around the world working as employees of companies large and small.

If a person is able to create enough investment income so that he doesn't have to rely on a salary for a living, chances are he has benefited more than most from this system, and I would only think that it would be his duty to contribute back in some way, using his resources (capital/time/skills) for the benefit of those less fortunate, trying to find a way to improve the system, or simply just by being good at his job.

Ultimately, I would say again that it is up to you to seek your own purpose in life, and financial freedom is a just a means to that, and not an end in itself. Meanwhile, be thankful for what we already have (even though it may not be much), and enjoy what you can in life


I leave with a short story:

Two close boyhood friends grow up and go their separate ways. One becomes a humble monk, the other a rich and powerful minister to the king.

Years later they meet. As they catch up, the minister (in his fine robes) takes pity on the thin, shabby monk. Seeking to help, he says:

“You know, if you could learn to cater to the king you wouldn’t have to live on rice and beans.”

To which the monk replies:

“If you could learn to live on rice and beans you wouldn’t have to cater to the king.”

Most of us would fall somewhere in between these two. And it is up to you to decide which side you would want to lean towards.

Cheers!

Ya lor, a lot of ppl just want a lot of $$$ so that they can escape the torture of they job...

I think instead one should look deeply and see what their passion is

for me... i had attained financial freedom, so I now spend most of my time on my passion which is card gaming

 

[starfish.starfish]

Hi TS,

IMO you have to seek your own purpose in life. Too many people see financial freedom as an end in itself, instead of a way to fulfill a higher calling.

If hypothetically you do manage to gain enough "passive income" such that all expenses are covered and you never have to work again, then what next? I see many people with the fantasy of giving their boss (and maybe some colleagues) the finger, quitting their job, and living a life of leisure thereafter (be it staying at home playing computer games forever, or travelling the world etc).

I guess for many of us who are employees, we get turned on just thinking of that. But once the joy of that wears of, we are left with a bigger question. What are we living for?

Some of us are fortunate to have a passion for a line of work or a hobby which we can work as a living. Those even more fortunate, are able to make really good money doing what they love. But sadly, only a few of us fall into that category.

If you're sick and tired of your job, I reckon you either:

1) find little meaning in your job, other than to earn an income

2) find meaning in it, but the working environment is too stressful

in either scenario, a certain degree of financial freedom would allow you to either work less, and do something which you love with the extra time, or quit and do something that you love but doesn't pay as well.

You mentioned about someone being a 'victim of the system'. You never specified what the 'system' was, but I am going to hazard a guess that even though the system is far from perfect, it has given us most of what we have in the modern world. Take a look at the things and services which we all use everyday. A large part of them would not have been possible without the millions of people around the world working as employees of companies large and small.

If a person is able to create enough investment income so that he doesn't have to rely on a salary for a living, chances are he has benefited more than most from this system, and I would only think that it would be his duty to contribute back in some way, using his resources (capital/time/skills) for the benefit of those less fortunate, trying to find a way to improve the system, or simply just by being good at his job.

Ultimately, I would say again that it is up to you to seek your own purpose in life, and financial freedom is a just a means to that, and not an end in itself. Meanwhile, be thankful for what we already have (even though it may not be much), and enjoy what you can in life


I leave with a short story:

Two close boyhood friends grow up and go their separate ways. One becomes a humble monk, the other a rich and powerful minister to the king.

Years later they meet. As they catch up, the minister (in his fine robes) takes pity on the thin, shabby monk. Seeking to help, he says:

“You know, if you could learn to cater to the king you wouldn’t have to live on rice and beans.”

To which the monk replies:

“If you could learn to live on rice and beans you wouldn’t have to cater to the king.”

Most of us would fall somewhere in between these two. And it is up to you to decide which side you would want to lean towards.

Cheers!

Fully agree, I think sometimes a mindset change is more important and easier than a situational change.

Rather than looking at how much would I need, think about how little I would need. That's changes perspective.

Most importantly, never ever compare yourself with others.

 

[Sinkie]

Fully agree, I think sometimes a mindset change is more important and easier than a situational change.

Rather than looking at how much would I need, think about how little I would need. That's changes perspective.

Most importantly, never ever compare yourself with others.

Actually most of us attainer financial freedom in our life at least once lah

When we were still in primary school at least

 

[Gummy Bear]

Actually most of us attainer financial freedom in our life at least once lah

When we were still in primary school at least

Ya I remember that.. Haha.. not only financial freedom, I also generated some extra income during primary and secondary school by selling my math answers and selling my art works to those who are too lazy to do.. Good business..

 

[Gummy Bear]

Hi TS,

IMO you have to seek your own purpose in life. Too many people see financial freedom as an end in itself, instead of a way to fulfill a higher calling.

If hypothetically you do manage to gain enough "passive income" such that all expenses are covered and you never have to work again, then what next? I see many people with the fantasy of giving their boss (and maybe some colleagues) the finger, quitting their job, and living a life of leisure thereafter (be it staying at home playing computer games forever, or travelling the world etc).

I guess for many of us who are employees, we get turned on just thinking of that. But once the joy of that wears of, we are left with a bigger question. What are we living for?

Some of us are fortunate to have a passion for a line of work or a hobby which we can work as a living. Those even more fortunate, are able to make really good money doing what they love. But sadly, only a few of us fall into that category.

If you're sick and tired of your job, I reckon you either:

1) find little meaning in your job, other than to earn an income

2) find meaning in it, but the working environment is too stressful

in either scenario, a certain degree of financial freedom would allow you to either work less, and do something which you love with the extra time, or quit and do something that you love but doesn't pay as well.

Thats why I need to be financially free. I love animal but I cant work in the zoo or bird park cos the pay is too damn cheap... If I have certain level of financial freedom.. I dun mind working there.. bcos the motivation is not about money anymore. That makes a lot of different.

You mentioned about someone being a 'victim of the system'. You never specified what the 'system' was, but I am going to hazard a guess that even though the system is far from perfect, it has given us most of what we have in the modern world. Take a look at the things and services which we all use everyday. A large part of them would not have been possible without the millions of people around the world working as employees of companies large and small.

I didnt mean the system is so bad. Just that the system lack in some way on helping on the needy. My friend's dad have to work many jobs to cover the medical bills for his mentally ill son and daughter. There wasn't enough help from the gov at all. He had spent all his saving and still not enough for the monthly medical bills. Worst.. Now he have kidney failure.. and need kidney dialysis every few days.. His body become very weak after every section. Finally his body cannot take it anymore and he fainted during work. Thanks goodness he got some charity from some private organisation at last.. He can now enjoy some subsidy for his kidney dialysis. However he still have to carry on working for those medical fee of his children after he recovered.

If a person is able to create enough investment income so that he doesn't have to rely on a salary for a living, chances are he has benefited more than most from this system, and I would only think that it would be his duty to contribute back in some way, using his resources (capital/time/skills) for the benefit of those less fortunate, trying to find a way to improve the system, ...

Yes thats really what I want achieve. I always help my friend dad by giving $200 to 500 every now and then to help ease his burden. I never expect him to return me the money but this also add on to my own burden. If I can have enough dividends incomes (lets not talk about capital gain first), I will have more to spare and can really do the things I always wanted to.

Ultimately, I would say again that it is up to you to seek your own purpose in life, and financial freedom is a just a means to that, and not an end in itself. Meanwhile, be thankful for what we already have (even though it may not be much), and enjoy what you can in life


I leave with a short story:

Two close boyhood friends grow up and go their separate ways. One becomes a humble monk, the other a rich and powerful minister to the king.

Years later they meet. As they catch up, the minister (in his fine robes) takes pity on the thin, shabby monk. Seeking to help, he says:

“You know, if you could learn to cater to the king you wouldn’t have to live on rice and beans.”

To which the monk replies:

“If you could learn to live on rice and beans you wouldn’t have to cater to the king.”

Most of us would fall somewhere in between these two. And it is up to you to decide which side you would want to lean towards.

Cheers!

Thanks! I would be the king. So that I can help the poor and "tax" the rich investors.. Just kidding...

 

[havetheveryfun]

Thats why I need to be financially free. I love animal but I cant work in the zoo or bird park cos the pay is too damn cheap... If I have certain level of financial freedom.. I dun mind working there.. bcos the motivation is not about money anymore. That makes a lot of different.

you are already luckier than a lot of other people in that you have a large sum of money waiting for you to invest. even if you don't invest that amount of money but just spend it sparingly, you can probably use it for 10-20years even if you don't get any returns on that money. compared to people who have to slog off at their work for years before seeing any light

 

[Sinkie]

TS likes to work with animal? Why not be a volunteer during weekend?

http://www.wrs.com.sg/getinvolved-volunteer.html

 

[IronMac]

hk not in a mess? these kids not even working yet but they can riot on the streets with their stupid democracy.. face it, without china, hk is dead.

tourists carrying luggage on the street = selling water goods? anyhow confront tourists and scold them?

they mk it even harder for their own hongkongers to mk a living..

business no sales = no need for more employment

I was asking for clarification, not that I had said that HK is not in a mess.

But, it's been a few months now and even back then I don't think HK was in a mess. The protests were limited in scope and area. Some high end merchants were affected, true, but that won't destroy the economy.

As for HK and China, well, HK was doing fine even before it was taken back by China. My impression is, if you ask Hong Kongers if they want the Chinese, they would say no.

 

[Gummy Bear]

you are already luckier than a lot of other people in that you have a large sum of money waiting for you to invest. even if you don't invest that amount of money but just spend it sparingly, you can probably use it for 10-20years even if you don't get any returns on that money. compared to people who have to slog off at their work for years before seeing any light

Yes I know. My friend said the same. If I will to spend only 2k per month.. It can last me about 60 years.. He also asked me why I even bother to invest.

Cos I want to use money to earn more money.. I will only invest 50% of it which is 700k and put the rest as cash.