[ROTK] Wei, Wu, Shu

[woodzero]

Actlually shld return jingzhou to wu after liubei obtained yizhou

They needed jing zhou in order to conquer the north. The reason zgl failed is because going from Qi Shan is very difficult + the supplies take very long to reach.

Zgl did say that if we (Shu) still have jing zhou, we will conquered the central plain.

They would have kept jing zhou if gy did not chut stunt and attack Wei on his own. This lead to wu attacking them and eventually the fall of jing zhou.

 

[upslorry]

Sometimes think abt it, ya la 3 side draw game...

But if they tried to kill cao cao off.. given zgl n liu bei generals at prime, their capabilities should be able to complete the uniting of china...

Oh well the story had to be interesting... So all these r just for discussion n what ifs

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actually during that time, if they kill Cao Cao, it'd be bad

because During the battle of CHi Bi, Liu Bei didnt have a territory, he only resided under Liu Biao and even Liu Biao was wiped out by Cao Cao eventually, So Liu Bei flee again

the only way they can fight Cao Cao is by borrowing Jing ZHou from Sun Quan, that's why ZHuge Liang went over to Wu to persuade Sun Quan to let them joint forces
BUt the generals of Sun Quan laugh at him and Liu Bei for fleeing all their life
in the end he managed to convince Sun Quan for a joint forces

At that time Liu Bei had only some generals, ZHuge Liang, Guan Yu, ZHang Fei, ZHao Yun, and a few others only
he didnt even have Pang Tong at that time, and Xu Shu the power advisor left under pressure from Cao Cao to kill his mother

So Liu Bei was pathetic having no territory and few generals, they cannot kill Cao Cao to upset the balance

Liu Bei only started to have his own territories after Cao Cao was defeated, he claimed Jing ZHou and started attacking South of CHang Sha which he captured Yan Yan and HUang Zhong, then he attacked West of Yi Zhou, which he removed Liu Zhang

That was the time he became powerful

 

[upslorry]

Sima Yi did see through the empty city trick but decided to let zgl live. If zgl die at the point of time, sima Yi will be deemed as disposable and will be killed off by Wei. The sima clan did not have a strong support at that time.

It doesn't make sense not to send in any soldiers to check.

this was hinted and suggested by a paragraph in the yan yi
many people used this paragraph to support this claim even though it was not obvious

few people know this though,but i wont say it's true or fake cos there's no definite answer for this

 

[woodzero]

cannot just bombard him with arrows from below meh ... i think the whole fake story is to glorify zgl.

The point is to let zgl live so that he can still be a threat to Wei. Sima yi after driving the Shu army out will be kept in freezer instead of getting killed because they still need him to fight with zgl. Just imagine what will happened to him if he killed off zgl

 

[jinmuddy]

Its all about a balance.

 

[bonkbonk]

actually during that time, if they kill Cao Cao, it'd be bad

because During the battle of CHi Bi, Liu Bei didnt have a territory, he only resided under Liu Biao and even Liu Biao was wiped out by Cao Cao eventually, So Liu Bei flee again

the only way they can fight Cao Cao is by borrowing Jing ZHou from Sun Quan, that's why ZHuge Liang went over to Wu to persuade Sun Quan to let them joint forces
BUt the generals of Sun Quan laugh at him and Liu Bei for fleeing all their life
in the end he managed to convince Sun Quan for a joint forces

At that time Liu Bei had only some generals, ZHuge Liang, Guan Yu, ZHang Fei, ZHao Yun, and a few others only
he didnt even have Pang Tong at that time, and Xu Shu the power advisor left under pressure from Cao Cao to kill his mother

So Liu Bei was pathetic having no territory and few generals, they cannot kill Cao Cao to upset the balance

Liu Bei only started to have his own territories after Cao Cao was defeated, he claimed Jing ZHou and started attacking South of CHang Sha which he captured Yan Yan and HUang Zhong, then he attacked West of Yi Zhou, which he removed Liu Zhang

That was the time he became powerful

But zgl did say, if cao cao win during tt battle, they will take sunquan down

And if cao cao fall they will all the way take cao cao land

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[bonkbonk]

Quite sad tt no one really succeed in taking over zgl , 姜维 tried but not mature n clever enough

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[etbenben]

I did not read the actual novel but it appears when the 3 parties are in place, the country had a proper balance. Maybe any ROTK experts can provide some advice on this scenario?

No wonder the blue is at the east this thread not simple

 

[bonkbonk]

No wonder the blue is at the east this thread not simple

Lol think too much

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[upslorry]

But zgl did say, if cao cao win during tt battle, they will take sunquan down

And if cao cao fall they will all the way take cao cao land

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not sure whether your this version is from tv show or comic?

in the original novel, i didnt think he said that before,
cos i didnt see it in the novel before,
during the battle of chi bi, Liu Bei didnt even have the power to take down Sun Quan. Even after the battle , he also dont have the power.

Zhuge Liang's plan was to use Wu to defeat Wei thru battle of chi bi, then establish a three kingdom balance, not to pursue either of them to defeat them cos they cant.

if anyone see ZHuge Liang said this before, can post the source? thanks

 

[upslorry]

Quite sad tt no one really succeed in taking over zgl , 姜维 tried but not mature n clever enough

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Jiang Wei 姜维 was actually quite successful. He defeated Deng Ai a few times, and lost a few times. It was quite a tie.
cos after ZHuge vs Sima, ZHuge died, it was Jiang Wei vs Deng Ai

 

[woodzero]

not sure whether your this version is from tv show or comic?

in the original novel, i didnt think he said that before,
cos i didnt see it in the novel before,
during the battle of chi bi, Liu Bei didnt even have the power to take down Sun Quan. Even after the battle , he also dont have the power.

Zhuge Liang's plan was to use Wu to defeat Wei thru battle of chi bi, then establish a three kingdom balance, not to pursue either of them to defeat them cos they cant.

if anyone see ZHuge Liang said this before, can post the source? thanks

I think it was Zhou yu who said this but the other way round. If I'm not wrong Zhou yu's plan was to make Shu go after cao cao. If Shu killed off cao cao, they will proceed to take jing Zhou then central plain. If Shu lost to cao cao then they will eliminate Shu. Zhou yu plan was to 二分天下 as opposed to zgl 三分天下.

 

[upslorry]

I think it was Zhou yu who said this but the other way round. If I'm not wrong Zhou yu's plan was to make Shu go after cao cao. If Shu killed off cao cao, they will proceed to take jing Zhou then central plain. If Shu lost to cao cao then they will eliminate Shu. Zhou yu plan was to 二分天下 as opposed to zgl 三分天下.

ya ZHou Yu wanted this, but Zhuge not

 

[bonkbonk]

ya ZHou Yu wanted this, but Zhuge not

Oops , paiseh paiseh... Mixed up there abit... Have to revisit the novel in due time lol

Have one at home collecting dust after i read it abt donkey years back hahah

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[ghaleonn]

SIC Will like to take a look. Is it a novel or just comic strips?

反三国志。novel.

 

[ranma21]

I think it was Zhou yu who said this but the other way round. If I'm not wrong Zhou yu's plan was to make Shu go after cao cao. If Shu killed off cao cao, they will proceed to take jing Zhou then central plain. If Shu lost to cao cao then they will eliminate Shu. Zhou yu plan was to 二分天下 as opposed to zgl 三分天下.

Agreed. Zhou yu is not only a strong politician but also a very good tactician. Too bad he become a shadow cast under zhl in e novel..
To be fiar to zy, his 二分天下 is becoz lb hav no prestige n not under consider while lui zhang is just hiding in his 西蜀 with no ambition.. But lu su think otherwise.. He also thought of 三分天下 but lui zhang is one of them Not lb..
Again novel make lu su looked like a honest dumb man...

 

[ranma21]

Then go read it up. By the way, Wei Wu Shu is 3 different countries not 3 different parties

The word parties sound more entertaining during this period of time.

 

[ranma21]

ya ZHou Yu wanted this, but Zhuge not

Actually zy scheme is let lb n cc kill each other, either one of leader die n east wu will hav a big advantage. Unfortunately things dont turn out his way.
As zhl quoted cc deserve to lost but not dead.

 

[woodzero]

Actually zy scheme is let lb n cc kill each other, either one of leader die n east wu will hav a big advantage. Unfortunately things dont turn out his way.
As zhl quoted cc deserve to lost but not dead.

Zgl outsmart zhou yu again by putting guan yu at hua Rong dao which eventually let cao cao off. If cao cao died at that time, Wei will come after Shu and wu can reap the reward after that. Shu did not have enough power to hold on its own therefore need to let cao cao off to keep Zhou yu in check.

 

[woodzero]

Agreed. Zhou yu is not only a strong politician but also a very good tactician. Too bad he become a shadow cast under zhl in e novel..
To be fiar to zy, his 二分天下 is becoz lb hav no prestige n not under consider while lui zhang is just hiding in his 西蜀 with no ambition.. But lu su think otherwise.. He also thought of 三分天下 but lui zhang is one of them Not lb..
Again novel make lu su looked like a honest dumb man...

Yeah, the novel did injustice to them by making lu su dumb and Zhou yu petty.