Need Advice for a full system

[MoneyFace =p]

Thanks for giving me a recommendation. I didn't consider Gigabyte initially is because I'm sick of looking at my AMD gigabyte motherboard for the past 6 years lol.

This motherboard you recommended is indeed interesting. I did a search. http://www.gigabyte.sg/products/product-page.aspx?pid=5491#sp

Let's see.
It's micro ATX. - ok, can consider though I would prefer a mini ITX.

M2 support - didn't know B series support M2. Ok good. But can a Samsung 950 Pro fit in ? I read one of the MSI motherboards M2 only allow 60mm while Samsung 950 Pro needs 80mm clearance while another Asus user cant detect his Samsung 950 Pro after plugging into his Asus mobo.

Skylake i7 support - ok, can plug in an intel i7 here.

4 DDR4 DIMM slots (support to 2133Mhz) - I read that DDR4 2400 is recommended as minimum to fight against DDR3 so how future proof is 2133Mhz?

AMD Crossfire support - lol..I just got an Nvidia GTX 970 even though I'm an AMD fanboy...so...haha...this feature doesn't apply unless I sell my GTX 970 later on and get two AMD Polaris cards and crossfire them to blow Nvidia out of the water lol

Overclocking - since its a B series chipset, I assume overclocking does not apply here?

If you prefer miniITX you can forget about doing any crossfire or SLI already...

Yes you can see there are 3 mount holes indicating their length number on the motherboard itself in the middle.

And you should ditch Core i7 la. See the table in the link on my previous post.

Even if you wish to do multi-GPU setup, mATX isn't favourable either since both cards will be installed on 1st and 3rd slot, leaving little to no gap in between, causing 1st GPU's temp to swell up high and fast.

And lastly, RAM speed doesn't really matters since DDR3. Read this:

http://www.legitreviews.com/ddr4-me...nding-the-best-ddr4-memory-kit-speed_170340/5

 

[GorGor2015sg]

Dude, this is why buying Core i7 is dumb....

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2015-intel-skylake-core-i7-6700k-review

You are paying a whopping $240 more on insignificant gains (and a brand name).

Thanks for the interesting link. That's quite a mouthful so will take some time to absorb. I went straight to the conclusions section and here's my reply to them.

They say:
"in most gaming scenarios, our tests have demonstrated that existing i5s and i7s still perform admirably. After all, most of the time, you are limited by the GPU, not the CPU. But in terms of quality of gameplay, when you are CPU-bound, the experience definitely suffers - in our experience, in-game stutter at its worst is usually caused by CPU bottlenecks, rather than graphics or driver issues. In games heavy on CPU, Skylake outperforms its predecessors and can leave both Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge in particular in the dust. Going forward, DX12 could change everything, but inevitably, DX11 gaming will see more of these kind of games, while the rise of VR (which could see CPU instructions to the GPU effectively double in generating a stereoscopic view) could also have big implications for processing power."

I say "So generally speaking an i7 can at times blow an i5 out of the water for games heavy on CPU (I assume Total War: Attila) and reduce stutter and increase minimum frame rates? Pls correct me if I'm wrong? And what will DX12 change? Reduce dependence on CPU? In another post, another hardwarezone user said VR relies more on GPU, now Eurogamer says VR relies a lot on CPU as well. So CPU is also important in VR?"




They say:
"The second issue is the comparison point we couldn't test in this review owing to the lack of a test chip. The last-gen Haswell and the 4790K were easier to recommend: DDR4 cost a fortune and X99 motherboards were too pricey, making the six-core 5820K relatively cheap in isolation, but very expensive when building a complete rig. But right now, X99 boards start from £150, while DDR4 is getting cheaper all the time - and unless you choose a DDR3L Skylake board, that's an expense you'll have to trouser whether you go for the 6700K or the 5820K. We've compared Skylake with its predecessors and definitely like what we see in terms of quad-core performance, but the notion of an extra £100 getting you a full-blooded six-core system sounds like a compelling alternative worth consideration."

I say:
"So they actually recommend getting a six core Intel...X99 mobo is too ex for me. And I prefer mini ITX or micro ATX boards. So six core is out.

Seems like in the end, they are saying Skylake i7-6700K
- is more future proof for VR
- improves game quality

I will have to go back and read the article in its entirety again though. I might miss out certain points and I need to see those fps chart again."

 

[wkweewee]

Haha im officially out of this thread..

 

[GorGor2015sg]

In the end.. you r on a budget and u r still so stuck up abt an i7. Stay on i5 haswell and get a good graphics card instead if u really want fps improvement. Ram wise can use back ddr3 also.. abt m2 I have mentioned it previously alrdy..

Edit: Not sure why u r looking at processor and ram speeds for fps improvement though lol..

Ok, sorry if I confuse some of you. I've explained that my ATI 5970 beast burnt out after 6 long years (Its a Sapphire and I bought it second hand from some rich Ferrari driving dude for $720, initial price was like $999) and I bought a Nvidia GTX 970 first (seriously I actually hate wearing a green shirt). So now I'm considering to replace my AMD Phenom II X4 965 ftw edition lol. I can't go back in time to get an Nvidia GTX 980 now. But I still need to change my CPU and mobo as the AMD CPU X4 seems to be holding back my Nvidia GTX 970.

The primary reasons I'm considering i7 over i5 is
- future proof as Eurogamer says VR requires lots of CPU processing power as well?
- hyperthreading support as more and more newer games might support it? I read Shadow of Mordor can utilize all 8 "cores"
- better game quality as what Eurogamer states, probably in terms of minimizing stuttering and higher minimum framerates?

Actually, my original question is which motherboard to pair up, not which CPU to get....haha....lol

Coz I've divided into mini ITX casing motherboard and micro ATX casing motherboards...so that's quite a lot to choose from..with all the sickening different chipsets...

Plus there's two flavors of i7, haswell and skylake...

Dam you Intel...lol

AMD, bring on the Zen Party asap please.

 

[GorGor2015sg]

Haha im officially out of this thread..

Alamak..why go out so soon...stay here leh

Need more talented ppl like you to contribute ideas, opinions, articles, benchmarks, links leh...

I'm dam confused over all the combinations already.

lol

 

[monikernemo]

Nothing to be confused about. Just ditch the i7 and go for i5.

No real numbers from vr side as of now, only can speculate.

Motherboard? Just get the cheapest if on budget. Not like you are gonna need the extra functionalities.

Sent from Huawei NEXUS 6P using GAGT

 

[MoneyFace =p]

Thanks for the interesting link. That's quite a mouthful so will take some time to absorb. I went straight to the conclusions section and here's my reply to them.

They say:
"in most gaming scenarios, our tests have demonstrated that existing i5s and i7s still perform admirably. After all, most of the time, you are limited by the GPU, not the CPU. But in terms of quality of gameplay, when you are CPU-bound, the experience definitely suffers - in our experience, in-game stutter at its worst is usually caused by CPU bottlenecks, rather than graphics or driver issues. In games heavy on CPU, Skylake outperforms its predecessors and can leave both Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge in particular in the dust. Going forward, DX12 could change everything, but inevitably, DX11 gaming will see more of these kind of games, while the rise of VR (which could see CPU instructions to the GPU effectively double in generating a stereoscopic view) could also have big implications for processing power."

I say "So generally speaking an i7 can at times blow an i5 out of the water for games heavy on CPU (I assume Total War: Attila) and reduce stutter and increase minimum frame rates? Pls correct me if I'm wrong? And what will DX12 change? Reduce dependence on CPU? In another post, another hardwarezone user said VR relies more on GPU, now Eurogamer says VR relies a lot on CPU as well. So CPU is also important in VR?"




They say:
"The second issue is the comparison point we couldn't test in this review owing to the lack of a test chip. The last-gen Haswell and the 4790K were easier to recommend: DDR4 cost a fortune and X99 motherboards were too pricey, making the six-core 5820K relatively cheap in isolation, but very expensive when building a complete rig. But right now, X99 boards start from £150, while DDR4 is getting cheaper all the time - and unless you choose a DDR3L Skylake board, that's an expense you'll have to trouser whether you go for the 6700K or the 5820K. We've compared Skylake with its predecessors and definitely like what we see in terms of quad-core performance, but the notion of an extra £100 getting you a full-blooded six-core system sounds like a compelling alternative worth consideration."

I say:
"So they actually recommend getting a six core Intel...X99 mobo is too ex for me. And I prefer mini ITX or micro ATX boards. So six core is out.

Seems like in the end, they are saying Skylake i7-6700K
- is more future proof for VR
- improves game quality

I will have to go back and read the article in its entirety again though. I might miss out certain points and I need to see those fps chart again."

Go see the 4th table in that eurogamer link

Compare between Core i7-6700K 4.6 GHz VS Core i5-6500K 4.5 GHz

Almost no difference in many games and by max little difference in others. This shows that most games hardly uses hyperthreading offered on Core i7. The only reason why your Core i7-6700K seemed faster is mainly due to its high clock speed @ 4.0 GHz. If i were you, i will at max just get Core i5-6600K and overclock it to 4.0-4.2 GHz.

 

[shadow84]

Alamak..why go out so soon...stay here leh

Need more talented ppl like you to contribute ideas, opinions, articles, benchmarks, links leh...

I'm dam confused over all the combinations already.

lol

Dun mind me asking but have you done your own research and reading up? Or waiting to be spoonfed?

 

[GorGor2015sg]

Dun mind me asking but have you done your own research and reading up? Or waiting to be spoonfed?

Yes, done a lot of research.

Please refer back to my original post. I have selected a few final motherboards for both haswell i7 and skylake i7 and for both types of casing - mini ITX and micro ATX and just want alternative option if Brand A is not available.

Thanks.

 

[GorGor2015sg]

Go see the 4th table in that eurogamer link


Compare between Core i7-6700K 4.6 GHz VS Core i5-6500K 4.5 GHz

Almost no difference in many games and by max little difference in others. This shows that most games hardly uses hyperthreading offered on Core i7. The only reason why your Core i7-6700K seemed faster is mainly due to its high clock speed @ 4.0 GHz. If i were you, i will at max just get Core i5-6600K and overclock it to 4.0-4.2 GHz.

OK, Lets take the price from Bizgram Asia for comparison
Gigabyte B150M-D3H + i5 6600K $492
Gigabyte B150M-D3H + i7 6700K $696

A price difference of $200

So let's say we want to overclock the i5 6600K to match the i7 6700K stock performance according to chart 4 at Eurogamer, we will need a $100? cooler? What is the recommended cooler to get and do we need to spend $100? Please advise.

And let's say I get a $100 cooler and overclock the i5-6600K to match the i7-6700K at stock speed, effective price will be around $592.

So that means I pay a $100 premium for hyperthreading support. Wouldn't that be quite worth it actually? Just $100 premium for hyperthreading support (for whatever, VR or games in 2017) and the i7-6700K should draws lesser power at stock compared to overclocked i5-6600K?

I would like to hear some opinions.

 

[GorGor2015sg]

Nothing to be confused about. Just ditch the i7 and go for i5.

No real numbers from vr side as of now, only can speculate.

Motherboard? Just get the cheapest if on budget. Not like you are gonna need the extra functionalities.

Sent from Huawei NEXUS 6P using GAGT

OK, Lets take the price from Bizgram Asia for comparison
Gigabyte B150M-D3H + i5 6600K $492
Gigabyte B150M-D3H + i7 6700K $696

A price difference of $200

So let's say we want to overclock the i5 6600K to match the i7 6700K stock performance according to chart 4 at Eurogamer, we will need a $100? cooler? What is the recommended cooler to get and do we need to spend $100? Please advise.

And let's say I get a $100 cooler and overclock the i5-6600K to match the i7-6700K at stock speed, effective price will be around $592.

So that means I pay a $100 premium for hyperthreading support. Wouldn't that be quite worth it actually? Just $100 premium for hyperthreading support (for whatever, VR or games in 2017) and the i7-6700K should draws lesser power at stock compared to overclocked i5-6600K?

I would like to hear some opinions.

Actually, we have deviated from my original question on which motherboard to get but its still interesting to discuss about i5 vs i7.

 

[GorGor2015sg]

If you prefer miniITX you can forget about doing any crossfire or SLI already...

Yes you can see there are 3 mount holes indicating their length number on the motherboard itself in the middle.

And you should ditch Core i7 la. See the table in the link on my previous post.

Even if you wish to do multi-GPU setup, mATX isn't favourable either since both cards will be installed on 1st and 3rd slot, leaving little to no gap in between, causing 1st GPU's temp to swell up high and fast.

And lastly, RAM speed doesn't really matters since DDR3. Read this:

http://www.legitreviews.com/ddr4-me...nding-the-best-ddr4-memory-kit-speed_170340/5

Thanks for the link.

In conclusion, they say "Our advice for gamers and enthusiasts would be to get at least a DDR4-2666 kit as that is the sweet spot this very second when it comes to price versus performance! This new platform scales exceptionally well though, so if you like memory overclocking we have a feeling a number of you will be moving over to a Z170 platform soon!"

So it seems if I'm on a skylake platform, I'm better off with a DDR4-2666 kit or at least a DDR4-2400...

Ya, I know mini ITX can't SLI/Crossfire and I don't intend to.

Quite surprised to hear that micro ATX not suitable for SLI but I think there are still ppl doing it.

Anyway, I don't intend to SLI/crossfire so looking at mini ITX (preferred) or micro ATX motherboards only.

End of the day, I would like a small casing setup.

 

[MoneyFace =p]

Lol you still need to get a 3rd party cooler be it Core i7-6700K or Core i5-6600K since they both comes without stock cooler...

 

[GorGor2015sg]

Lol you still need to get a 3rd party cooler be it Core i7-6700K or Core i5-6600K since they both comes without stock cooler...

You mean the retail box version of the Core i7-6700K comes without stock cooler??? or comes with stock cooler?

Based on my BizGram price analysis, seems like we pay $100 extra for hyperthreading support. Please read my analysis in the other post.

What cooler is recommended for i5-6600K overclocking? And how much?

Thanks.

 

[GorGor2015sg]

Let's recap all our discussions so far. I was asking for opinion on motherboard but we have deviated into i5 vs i7 CPUs. But never mind, interesting discussions though. My summary is, if I get a $100 cooler to overclock the i5-6600K, and compare it with a stock i7-6700K, that actually translates into just $100 more for hyperthreading support. I guess each will have his own preference and decision on whether to go i5 or i7.

Please look at my Questions part and give opinions if you can.

The motherboard issue remains to be fixed.
If get mini ITX casing,
1. and I want Asus mini ITX motherboard, I’m limited to only Asus Z170i Pro Gaming.
I7-6700k + Asus Z170i Pro Gaming (DDR4) $804

QUESTION: Seems like Asus mini ITX motherboard is very expensive, if I want a mini ITX setup. I was asking if anyone knows any other skylake mini ITX motherboard equivalent to the Z170i Pro gaming in terms of features but yet cheaper.


2. Otherwise, can get MSI H170 Gaming M3 motherboard.
I7-6700K + MSI H170 Gaming M3 (DDR4) $728
Typo: I discovered the MSI H170 Gaming M3 is an ATX motherboard. So that's out for me coz I've been married to an ATX board for 6 years.


3. If get mini ITX casing, and want to use cheaper DDR3 RAM with i7-6700K,
Option 1??
Option 2??

QUESTION: Anyone knows any Skylake Mini ITX board that supports DDR3? I can't find any mini ITX board on DDR3 support, only able to find micro ATX boards that support DDR3.


4. If get micro ATX casing, and want to re-use old DDR3 RAM with i7-6700K,
I7-6700K + Asus H170M-E D3 (DDR3) $687
2nd Option ??

QUESTION:
I found my 1st choice Asus H170M-E D3 (DDR3).
Any other brand Skylake motherboard with Micro ATX, M2 and DDR3 support? In case I can't get Asus due to out of stock or whatever.



5. If get micro ATX casing, and want to use DDR4 RAM with i7-6700K,
Option 1 ??
Option 2 ??

QUESTION:
Option 1. gigabyte ga-b150m-d3h - Supports DDR4, skylake i7 and m2.
Option 2 ??


The reason I ask is Asus website is pretty straight forward with its advanced filters. Only the MSI, Asrock and Gigabyte websites are not as efficient.

If anyone can recommend motherboards based on my question, that would save me a lot of time.

Thanks.

 

[GorGor2015sg]

Need recommendation for Micro ATX Casing

Hi all,

I need some recommendations for Micro ATX Casing.

Looking for one <400mm (40cm) in height, with windows side panel.

Any recommendations?

Thanks.

 

[GorGor2015sg]

Mini ITX Casing - Pls Recommend

Hi all,

I also need some recommendations for Mini ITX Casing.

I see that most mini ITX casing has vents on the left side of the side panel. Will this be a problem for noisier graphics cards as I assume noise will escape from the vents?

Any mini ITX casing with windowed side panel that can block out the noise from the graphics card?

Thanks.

 

[Op_Valkyrie]

Caselabs S3

10kkj

 

[monikernemo]

I don't think we've manifestly deviated away from topic because you raised a query on i7 maximising frame rates...

Anyway skylake unlocked processors don't come with coolers. Have to go with market coolers which equates to more spending.

Anw like I said, i7 would bring minimal gains as opposed to improving your graphics solution. I rather you save the money and just go with a i5 and improve your gpu when next gen arrives to make it vr ready.

I7 to i5 only brings less than 5 fps improvement depending on title. On the other hand, gtx 970 to 980 can go any where from 15-20% improvement. Games don't use hyperthreading now and I don't think they would heavily rely on ht anyways.

If don't want listen okay lorh LOL not my money anyways...

As for motherboards, go for the cheapest option with the functionalities you need (m.2 etc.) If you don't need the functionality, avoid it altogether (raid, overclocking, multi-gpu). Asus has very intuitive bios, msi and gigabyte are good mix of price and quality. Asrock is the cheapest but still very decent. Eliminate slowly from there

Sent from Huawei NEXUS 6P using GAGT

 

[Allanlee82]

Maybe can start by indicating what's ur budget and list the stuff u might need and what u already have.from there than ppl can give u recommendation