www.hardwarezone.com.sg


www.hardwarezone.com.sg (/)
-   Hardware Clinic (https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/hardware-clinic-2/)
-   -   The AMD Zen2 Ryzen 3000 Discussion Thread (https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/hardware-clinic-2/amd-zen2-ryzen-3000-discussion-thread-6079836.html)

MacClipper 17-07-2019 10:19 AM

The AMD Zen2 Ryzen 3000 Discussion Thread
 
The new 3rd Gen 7nm Ryzen 3000 Zen2 series is significantly different from and vastly improved upon its predecessors viz. Zen and Zen+ so perhaps it is time for its own discussion thread.



Summary

1. 7nm architecture (Intel is stuck at 14nm+++ ad nauseum... )
2. PCI-e v4 (Intel is stuck at v3)
3. higher CPU clocks - both base and boost (over 4+ GHz and onwards... )
4. higher DDR4 clocks (over 3733MHz and onwards... )
5. more cores (up to 16!) and threads (up to 32!)
6. AVX-256 instructions
7. AM4 backward compatibility!!! (screw you pin twiddling Intel)
8. 2 x L3 cache size
9. great performance jump - for both single and multi core
10. fantastic cost benefits - for users (and AMD too)



Barron's World Best CEOs 2019 - Lisa Su (click!)





Without AMD's Ryzen, we would all be still stuck at 4 cores mainstream and even going backwards with Intel's removal of hyperthreading (i7-9700K) and paying through the nose for them. Intel chip vulnerabilities and fixes already have owners uncontrollably losing performance over time, we don't need more of Intel's gimmicky nonsense to lose even more.

OK, time to share your experience and encourage the present fence sitters to reconsider their next CPU buying decision.

MacClipper 17-07-2019 10:22 AM

Recommended Ryzen 3000 RAM
1. Samsung B
2. Micron E
3. Hynix CFR/CJR
...

Kindly add if you have more info on specific model number, availability and pricing...



Corsair Ver. X.XX
https://www.reddit.com/r/overclockin...sion_number.22




AM4 Mobo Vcore VRM Ratings
- choosing AM4 mobos (Click for spreadsheet)




...

jkohlc2 17-07-2019 10:35 AM

Waiting for cheap b550 mobo :(

Posted from PCWX using ONEPLUS A5010

MacClipper 17-07-2019 10:40 AM

Backward compatibility is no idle claim...

Quote:

7. AM4 backward compatibility!!! (screw you pin twiddling Intel)


Motherboard used is an old model from the very OG 2017 Ryzen launch, the Asus X370 Crosshair VI Hero... no problem performing while running the new Ryzen 3600 with RAM@DDR4-3600 using 'budget' Hynix RAM.





...

Koenig168 17-07-2019 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacClipper (Post 121779589)
....
4. higher DDR4 clocks (over 3733MHz and onwards... )

The sweet spot for RAM speed is 3733 MHz or 3600 MHz. Beyond that, performance actually goes down as the Infinity Fabric clock will get cut in half so anything higher than 3733/3600 MHz is pointless.

MacClipper 17-07-2019 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koenig168 (Post 121779927)
The sweet spot for RAM speed is 3733 MHz or 3600 MHz. Beyond that, performance actually goes down as the Infinity Fabric clock will get cut in half so anything higher than 3733/3600 MHz is pointless.

Yes, highly dependent on the IMC of each chip too. Some can run higher than others but most are 3600/3733.

Indeed running faster RAM is not always making the system faster but it's not totally pointless if one is targeting specific needs like binning high speed RAM. You can't even do that on most earlier Ryzens.

Koenig168 17-07-2019 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacClipper (Post 121780032)
Yes, highly dependent on the IMC of each chip too. Some can run higher than others but most are 3600/3733.

Indeed running faster RAM is not always making the system faster but it's not totally pointless if one is targeting specific needs like binning high speed RAM. You can't even do that on most earlier Ryzens.

OK, but not many folks here will be spending their time binning high speed RAM.

MacClipper 17-07-2019 10:57 AM

Call it an additional benefit without any additional cost, maybe. :)

kimsix 17-07-2019 11:01 AM

Got 2x16 crucial 3200 $215, tiagong is e-die. Tempting to change from Intel to amd but got 2 disappointments, banleong markup gao gao $200 for their CH8, the second is ryzen 3 like zero OC left. Intel at least you can OC some for normal usage.

If Intel slash the x299 cpu prices... I see x299 boards are affordable now, evga ftwk only $460, overall going from x99 to x299 can be cheaper.

MacClipper 17-07-2019 11:10 AM

Quote:

2x16 crucial 3200
High chance Micron E die esp. if there is AES in the model number.

16GB is also likely dual rank, not sure if Ryzen 3K has improved handling of these RAM.

grimfan 17-07-2019 12:16 PM

Intel will be forced to make a comeback and comeback they will.

With the 7nm process node, AMD just managed to meet performance parity in IPC and only pulling ahead in multi-core performance.

With AMD finally competing, we can only now benefit with lower prices and better value, enjoy while it lasts.

5star_pundit 17-07-2019 12:24 PM

If you think the latest X570 motherboard is expensive ? Fret not cos all AM4

motherboards are 3rd Gen Ryzen CPU compatible including b350 and B450 ones

In other words when buying a new build, If wan to save money can just buy Ryzen 3600 +

B350 Tomahawk and flash the BIOS. It is backward compatible

kimsix 17-07-2019 02:27 PM

Crosshair 7 only $350 at Amazon app
Crosshair 8 only $540 from Newegg.
Ok to use x470 for 16 cores?
Since Ryzen cannot over clock at all?

NMSS_2 17-07-2019 03:25 PM

got rumours on setting the correct timing for ram and cpu could possibly get 5-10% performance.

Shahmatt 17-07-2019 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacClipper (Post 121779643)
Recommended Ryzen 3000 RAM
1. Samsung B
2. Micron E
3. Hynix CFR/CJR
...

Kindly add if you have more info on specific model number, availability and pricing...

...

Can consider HyperX Fury. I was able to take mine from 2667Mhz to 3333MHz @ CL16, 1.35V.

quiksive 17-07-2019 04:18 PM

I am just wondering if I am only using 3000mhz ram it the difference be a lot compare to 3200mhz.

Shutterbox 17-07-2019 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacClipper (Post 121780339)
High chance Micron E die esp. if there is AES in the model number.

16GB is also likely dual rank, not sure if Ryzen 3K has improved handling of these RAM.

Just ordered these:

https://www.newegg.com/global/sg-en/...82E16820164131

P/N: BLS2K8G4D32AESCK

Phen8210 17-07-2019 08:51 PM

finally someone started a thread

watzup_ken 17-07-2019 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grimfan (Post 121781332)
Intel will be forced to make a comeback and comeback they will.

With the 7nm process node, AMD just managed to meet performance parity in IPC and only pulling ahead in multi-core performance.

With AMD finally competing, we can only now benefit with lower prices and better value, enjoy while it lasts.

Agree on the IPC, but to cram 4 more cores to a total of 12, vs 8 cores on Intel is a feat in itself. And clearly the extra 4 cores contributes to a significant improvement over Intel's highest end consumer chip in applications which benefits with more cores. You also need to factor in that if you maintain an all core turbo on the Intel 9900K, you are staring down at a power consumption of about 160 watts to maintain a high clockspeed.

I have no doubts that Intel will catch up on IPC with the launch of Ice Lake, but that is still in the later part of 2020, where they will have to compete with the likes of the 7+ nm Ryzen 4xxx which is expected to be major change from the current Zen 2.

In short, Intel no longer have the node advantage over its competitor as they historically used to have, i.e. 14nm vs AMD that using 28nm. With this advantage gone, it will be interesting to see how competitive Intel can get in the near future.

watzup_ken 17-07-2019 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimsix (Post 121783424)
Crosshair 7 only $350 at Amazon app
Crosshair 8 only $540 from Newegg.
Ok to use x470 for 16 cores?
Since Ryzen cannot over clock at all?

I think it depends on the build of the board. I believe it should work perfectly fine with X470, assuming board is well built enough.

In fact, it seems if you don't need PCI4, X470 boards are the better board to get from a cost and power consumption standpoint.

https://www.extremetech.com/computin...pu-comparisons

Seems like most X570 boards out there are drawing a lot of power.

MacClipper 17-07-2019 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkohlc2 (Post 121779829)
Waiting for cheap b550 mobo :(

Posted from PCWX using ONEPLUS A5010

Got to wait another quarter or so, right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shahmatt (Post 121784882)
Can consider HyperX Fury. I was able to take mine from 2667Mhz to 3333MHz @ CL16, 1.35V.

Best is to check with Taiphoon Burner for the actual RAM chips used, Kingston only assembles them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by quiksive (Post 121785141)
I am just wondering if I am only using 3000mhz ram it the difference be a lot compare to 3200mhz.

Hmm, hope I can find time to test it out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shutterbox (Post 121787779)
Just ordered these:

https://www.newegg.com/global/sg-en/...82E16820164131

P/N: BLS2K8G4D32AESCK

Exact same thing I ordered on Prime Day x 2 sets.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phen8210 (Post 121789156)
finally someone started a thread

Yeah, think it's about time too.

Zen2 deserves its own thread for being so radically improved.

Intel must be in crisis mode nowadays but it still has its own die hard supporters who think the world of its 14nm+++ thermal greased exploits+++ afflicted chips though. :s22:

Phen8210 17-07-2019 10:28 PM

cos im seeing people reposting the same thing over and over again :s22:

kenzi87 17-07-2019 10:38 PM

3600 with B350 FTW!!!

Shutterbox 17-07-2019 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacClipper (Post 121790749)


Exact same thing I ordered on Prime Day x 2 sets.

Wanted to wait for grey/red of the same stick to stock up.
but my casing doesnt have window, and this colour is 10 bucks cheaper. :s13:

MacClipper 17-07-2019 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phen8210 (Post 121790862)
cos im seeing people reposting the same thing over and over again :s22:

Bigger forums are like that mah.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shutterbox (Post 121791077)
Wanted to wait for grey/red of the same stick to stock up.
but my casing doesnt have window, and this colour is 10 bucks cheaper. :s13:

imo, white is nicer than the other colours. Grey is too drab while red is too garish. Besides, white reflects better any other RGB LED colours one uses too.

Grabbed another white Corsair pair from Amazon flash sales last night too.

Personally, I am for total silence, darkness and stealth though.



The most amazing feature of RYZEN 3000 - Power Saving (and some CCX OC)



* Remember to grab the Asus CCX OC Tool Easter egg while you are there watching der8auer.

kimsix 17-07-2019 11:37 PM

Aorus master looks good between top end and fair prices here. More interesting than Asus WS. Targetting that hope got NDP vouchers. :s13:

Any one review gigabyte for us? How is their bios and rma support now?

Shahmatt 18-07-2019 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacClipper (Post 121790749)
Best is to check with Taiphoon Burner for the actual RAM chips used, Kingston only assembles them.


Micron B-die

tigerwoods 18-07-2019 08:50 AM

Is 3700X and B450 board a good combination?

Posted from PCWX using Jedi mind trick.

Shutterbox 18-07-2019 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tigerwoods (Post 121794255)
Is 3700X and B450 board a good combination?

Posted from PCWX using Jedi mind trick.

My only problem with b450 boards is the lack of more m.2 pcie slots.

X570 has at least 2

moonSymph 18-07-2019 09:17 AM

I'm using 3700x and msi b450 mortar titanium.. so far so good.. except bios is kind of buggy right now.. that can be said for other board as well..

Quote:

Originally Posted by tigerwoods (Post 121794255)
Is 3700X and B450
board a good combination?

Posted from PCWX using Jedi mind trick.


Pepperisk 18-07-2019 10:08 AM

Bought the 3600. Pairing it with my old motherboard ( B350 tomahawk ) and so far it runs. Having some issues with video playback though. If I put the computer to sleep, then turn back on, can't play any videos on any browser. Youtube/twitch etc will load the picture but the video won't play. Restarting the computer will fix it. No clue why.

Also waiting for the ballistix ram to test. Hope it works out well.

MacClipper 18-07-2019 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shahmatt (Post 121792608)
Micron B-die

Nice job in o'cing these! :)

curryloti 18-07-2019 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shutterbox (Post 121794576)
My only problem with b450 boards is the lack of more m.2 pcie slots.

X570 has at least 2

Only problem?

https://www.techpowerup.com/257201/b...bility-promise

Quote:

motherboards based on AMD 300-series and 400-series chipsets... the capacity of the SPI flash EEPROM chip that stores the motherboard UEFI firmware is woefully limited to cram in the AGESA ComboAM4 1.0.0.3a microcode on many of its motherboards.

Shahmatt 18-07-2019 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacClipper (Post 121796436)
Nice job in o'cing these! :)

Thanks. It's possible to do better I think if you want to try up to 1.40V, but I felt scared to try.

Also I believe these RAMs are not expensive.

Edit: Actually I just found old record showing I did push these to 1.43V (forgot I tried) and achieved 3400 CL14.

tigerwoods 18-07-2019 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pepperisk (Post 121795645)
Bought the 3600. Pairing it with my old motherboard ( B350 tomahawk ) and so far it runs. Having some issues with video playback though. If I put the computer to sleep, then turn back on, can't play any videos on any browser. Youtube/twitch etc will load the picture but the video won't play. Restarting the computer will fix it. No clue why.

Also waiting for the ballistix ram to test. Hope it works out well.

updated your bios?

5star_pundit 18-07-2019 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pepperisk (Post 121795645)
Bought the 3600. Pairing it with my old motherboard ( B350 tomahawk ) and so far it runs. Having some issues with video playback though. If I put the computer to sleep, then turn back on, can't play any videos on any browser. Youtube/twitch etc will load the picture but the video won't play. Restarting the computer will fix it. No clue why.

Also waiting for the ballistix ram to test. Hope it works out well.

Take note this is a beta BIOS and there are still some bugs give msi some more time to roll out the official version lah

MacClipper 18-07-2019 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shahmatt (Post 121784882)
Can consider HyperX Fury. I was able to take mine from 2667Mhz to 3333MHz @ CL16, 1.35V.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shahmatt (Post 121798613)
... Actually I just found old record showing I did push these to 1.43V (forgot I tried) and achieved 3400 CL14.

Very nice, do you have the detailed settings/timings for these 2 Micron B overclocks?

Pepperisk 19-07-2019 07:55 AM

No updates to the beta bios yet. Still at version 7A34v1OM(Beta version). Now also got issue when navigating the bios menu, very slow. Gonna reset the cmos after work and see if it helps

MacClipper 19-07-2019 08:38 AM

Asus Crosshair VII Hero Bios 2501
https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/m...-ASUS-2501.zip

Quote:

AGESA 1.0.0.2

Fix an issue where the mouse will sometimes freeze in the UEFI.
Update multi-language string.
Fix an issue with the Safe Boot button.
"Before running the USB BIOS Flashback tool, please rename the BIOS file (C7H.CAP) using BIOSRenamer."

leecming 19-07-2019 09:09 AM

How much of an improvement can I expect for gaming if I upgrade from 1700 to 3700X?

MacClipper 19-07-2019 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leecming (Post 121811553)
How much of an improvement can I expect for gaming if I upgrade from 1700 to 3700X?

Simple question but not so simple answers cos it depends - which game, which GPU, which game resolution etc...



Yet another discussion of Ryzen 3K and undervolting
Why undervolting the new Ryzen processors is not very effective


Quote:

AMD seems to be getting the most out of the processors for standard operation due to a sophisticated system of voltage, clock and temperature monitoring. This applies both to the boost, as well as the most effective operation with the appropriate voltages. The scope for overclocking and undervolving is therefore low.

grimfan 19-07-2019 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leecming (Post 121811553)
How much of an improvement can I expect for gaming if I upgrade from 1700 to 3700X?

Short answer, definitely will have better performance in both average frame rates and definitely better 0.1 percent lows.

Long answer, how much depends on the GFX you are using, at what resolution you game on, what games you play etc.

shadey 19-07-2019 04:03 PM

I think Ryzen will have a "fine wine" effect. Game engines will become more and more thread aware, Windows OS and game engine compilers will start to optimize for the Ryzen CCX structure... All of the advantages Intel has now with compilers.

KWSW 19-07-2019 04:55 PM

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comment...s_been_pulled/

looks like 1003aba has been pulled due to bugs... oh well some more waiting :s22:

MacClipper 19-07-2019 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by concept_fuel (Post 121819685)
:s13: I'm on gigabyte x470 board with F40c bios Agesa 1.0.0.3ab and so far yet to see bugs:o

Quote:

Originally Posted by concept_fuel (Post 121819868)
So is 4000mhz possible on an X470 board?

:D
https://i.imgur.com/mFYqdm1.jpg

any benefits...hardly:s13:

Looks like this 10AB BIOS also does not auto-adjust the NB frequency for you, screenshot still shows low speed IMC. Anyway, you can try to manually adjust it.


Here's what The Stilt says.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Stilt
CPU-Z Northbridge Frequency
The "Northbridge Frequency" displayed by CPU-Z is NOT the FCLK (fabric) frequency. Instead it is the frequency of the memory controller itself (UCLK). Normally both FCLK and UCLK operate at the same speed (MEMCLK). When FCLK and MEMCLK are desynchronised, UCLK will be set to 1/2 mode. Regardless if you lower or raise it below / above the MEMCLK. For example, if MEMCLK = 3200MHz and FCLK is anything else than 1600MHz, the UCLK frequency will be MEMCLK / 2 (i.e. 800MHz).

No third party software (for the time being) can monitor FCLK frequency.


kenzi87 19-07-2019 07:25 PM

Anyone encounter their ryzen 3000 clock speed drop below the base clock?

My 3600, did drop to 3.4 for a few core when on windows 10 High performance plan, there was one 3 cores stuck at 500mhz

hg2 19-07-2019 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenzi87 (Post 121821611)
Anyone encounter their ryzen 3000 clock speed drop below the base clock?

My 3600, did drop to 3.4 for a few core when on windows 10 High performance plan, there was one 3 cores stuck at 500mhz

Bios version ? driver ?
Same observation here on 3900x, trying to understand the patterns as I run more stress test, 1 or 2 cores drop to 3100 during benchmarking.

On X52 AIO, rock solid but not exciting. Ryzen 3000 has very little room for OC, will try under-volting approach to see if can achieve all cores 4.3Mhz stable.

3600 is definitely a good buy, comparable or even better then 3900x on singlecore!
https://i.postimg.cc/L6Pj67dx/Capture.png

On Ryzen Master, idle clock can be as low as 115, then shoot up to 4100. Could be observer bug.. On the NZXT cam, idle at 4441MHz this definitely a bug!
https://i.postimg.cc/DyCtdn2w/Capture.png

kenzi87 19-07-2019 08:33 PM

On 1.0.0.3 too, jump from 1700 to 3600 2 core less but much better core speed

MacClipper 20-07-2019 08:27 AM

Wow, a very neat and nicely colour matched rig! :eek:


On Reddit.
Quote:

Originally Posted by AMD_Robert Technical Marketing
Please note that it is totally normal for your Ryzen to use voltages in a range of 0.200V - 1.500V -- this is the factory operating range of the CPU. It is also totally normal for the temperature to cycle through 10C swings as boost comes on and off. You will always see these characteristics, as they're intended, so do not be surprised to see such values. :)

Please do not undervolt the chip or set a maximum processor state of 99%. These are ineffective and/or detrimental changes.


hg2 20-07-2019 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacClipper (Post 121827105)
Please do not undervolt the chip or set a maximum processor state of 99%. These are ineffective and/or detrimental changes.

Haha...Too late already undervolt, and the verdict
Spoiler!


All times are GMT +8. The time now is 10:42 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright © SPH Magazines Pte Ltd. All rights reserved.