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Old 27-04-2009, 03:34 AM   #646
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KouAnKyuuKa: Stones will wear out also, whether branded or not, have to touch to assess the quality.. Most important would be the actual grit and the type of stone than brand or reviews.. review or no review, as long as it gets the task down with minimal expense, I'll get it..

Anyway, I'm sharpening for utility.. going finer than 4k is just gonna make my knife beautiful but not too practical.. unless I'm sharpening kitchen cutlery or collectors than yes, I'll invest in the system.. but so far, my needs are for reprofiling my dull knife.. so no need to make my utility knives into samurais

i_got_a_question_to_ask: those plastic is useless, quite uncomfortable to use.. if using on a stone, you fingers are the best guide.. Just go slow if your not confident..
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Old 27-04-2009, 09:21 AM   #647
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Well, he can always ask to see our freshly sharpened knives provided the customers have not collect them, and I can demo cutting a piece of paper also....... my boss uses all those stones to sharpen all knives by hand.....

A lot of time, I think it is not just the stones, it is more like the techniques and experience of sharpening knives, and of course the steel of the knife edge.
My Rift can shave hairs and slice newspaper, sharpened with 1500 grit sandpaper.

Cutting newspaper or paper or shaving hair, it not a benchmark for sharpness. Any knives sharpened with 800 grit sandpaper can shave and slice too.

The correct technique with the correct tools is the combination.

I think if you wanna continue touting your boss's skills or his company, you should advertise with HWZ, instead of 'giving' free advice on the surface and promoting your in house brand Kasumi and Naniwa.
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Old 27-04-2009, 09:31 AM   #648
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KouAnKyuuKa: Stones will wear out also, whether branded or not, have to touch to assess the quality.. Most important would be the actual grit and the type of stone than brand or reviews.. review or no review, as long as it gets the task down with minimal expense, I'll get it..

Anyway, I'm sharpening for utility.. going finer than 4k is just gonna make my knife beautiful but not too practical.. unless I'm sharpening kitchen cutlery or collectors than yes, I'll invest in the system.. but so far, my needs are for reprofiling my dull knife.. so no need to make my utility knives into samurais

i_got_a_question_to_ask: those plastic is useless, quite uncomfortable to use.. if using on a stone, you fingers are the best guide.. Just go slow if your not confident..
To me, a sharpening stone is more than an inanimated object. If knives and swords have souls (tamashi), the stones are vehicles to tempering it.

Touching a Sharpening stone will not be helpful in anyway. It is when you start sharpening your knife on it, only then the truth will be revealed.

Japanese stones wear down faster than most stones. It is meant to be that way and I can understand the logic behind it.

With that being said, it's up to you to choose.
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Old 27-04-2009, 09:43 AM   #649
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edge pro is sexpensive stuff for sexperts. i am noob. i also cannot afford the s$323 system de.

then this plastic thing is only $10 US. and can be used on whatever stone i choose. whereas the sexpensive edgepro one must use their in-house grit only.

i am poor undergrad no $. just a simple system to DIY some maintenance for some knives in the house (my dad use very often for his job).

Then can I suggest that you go free hand?

Take a protractor to measure out 20 degrees. Then lift your knife to the correct elevation.

Or, place your knife on the sharpening stone, then slowly elevate your knife till the edge is fully on the stone.

Then start slow, while trying to maintain the angle, do not force the edge. It should be smooth from start (keel of the knife) till the end (which is the tip).

Go from roughest till the highest grit Unless you are using Oil stones, your sharpening stones should be slightly wet.
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Old 27-04-2009, 01:54 PM   #650
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My Rift can shave hairs and slice newspaper, sharpened with 1500 grit sandpaper.

Cutting newspaper or paper or shaving hair, it not a benchmark for sharpness. Any knives sharpened with 800 grit sandpaper can shave and slice too.

The correct technique with the correct tools is the combination.

I think if you wanna continue touting your boss's skills or his company, you should advertise with HWZ, instead of 'giving' free advice on the surface and promoting your in house brand Kasumi and Naniwa.
Well I am just giving you guys the information that locally we carry these 2 brands of stones, so why are you being like that for??

I already said I dun earn a single cent of commission for any sales at all. Actually normally, when I mentioned my company sell whatever stuff you are looking for, I would normally give them the address of the showroom and ask them to come down to take a look for themselves, touch and feel the stone, examine it before they can decide if they want to buy it.

And I only posted those pictures with pricing when you ask me to state it here.

Do You sell in sets?

I'm looking for a set like this: http://www.bladegallery.com/shopexd.asp?id=80085

I am not very interested in Kasumi or Naniwa Whetstones as litle to non reviews have been posted during my search yesterday.

How much will your company offer in a set, or exact set as above?

Please state here so that the other bros who are interested can know. If the pricing is competitive, you will have some customers

I will be ordering at the end of this month should I fail to hear from you.
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Old 27-04-2009, 02:29 PM   #651
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Well I am just giving you guys the information that locally we carry these 2 brands of stones, so why are you being like that for??

I already said I dun earn a single cent of commission for any sales at all. Actually normally, when I mentioned my company sell whatever stuff you are looking for, I would normally give them the address of the showroom and ask them to come down to take a look for themselves, touch and feel the stone, examine it before they can decide if they want to buy it.

And I only posted those pictures with pricing when you ask me to state it here.
Yes, I did ask you for a price qoute. When you replied, I said 'no' to those stones. Then you said I'm paying much more for the stones that I have ordered.

It's like a sales pitch already. When I said no, you could have leave it at that? You are giving me the impression of a pushy salesman, trying to push some never heard of Kasumi stones, except for Naniwa brand.

You can say that you are not commissioned based. But off the stage, we will never know. Perhaps, that impression that you are giving pisses some people off.
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Old 27-04-2009, 02:32 PM   #652
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relax bros.. lol..

*this server busy is pissing me off~
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Old 27-04-2009, 04:06 PM   #653
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Yes, I did ask you for a price qoute. When you replied, I said 'no' to those stones. Then you said I'm paying much more for the stones that I have ordered.

It's like a sales pitch already. When I said no, you could have leave it at that? You are giving me the impression of a pushy salesman, trying to push some never heard of Kasumi stones, except for Naniwa brand.

You can say that you are not commissioned based. But off the stage, we will never know. Perhaps, that impression that you are giving pisses some people off.
Salesman.... nope I am not a salesman

And this is a forum for discussion, what I stated is just a fact, and this ain't exactly a situation I am calling you to push a sale or you are right in front of me and I am trying to sell you something. Kasumi is a brand for kitchen knives, and yes they do have whetstone for sharpening knives, since it is related to their main core products kitchen knives. Just google for Kasumi knives and you will know it is not some unknown brand....... just that the stones are more like supplementary products for their knives, and they only got 2 combination stones and that's it. I mean it will be good if someone is just trying to get a wide range stones with varying grit without breaking the bank.

You dun believe me, that is your choice. I am just trying to let some EDMWers here know there are cheaper alternative beside ordering from Internet, because Internet you still got to wait for shipping and of course pay for the shipping. And of course, the main difference is you get to look, see and touch the stones before you decide. That's all I am trying to tell fellow EDMWers here, I am not saying anything bad about your purchase if that is what you think.

If you can't look past the fact that I am just trying to be helpful because not many people in Singapore actually knew where to buy them, then just ignore my posts. And so far only Kasumi stones are actually selling in Takashimaya, the rest we just sell in showroom only.

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Old 28-04-2009, 09:22 AM   #654
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Salesman.... nope I am not a salesman

And this is a forum for discussion, what I stated is just a fact, and this ain't exactly a situation I am calling you to push a sale or you are right in front of me and I am trying to sell you something. Kasumi is a brand for kitchen knives, and yes they do have whetstone for sharpening knives, since it is related to their main core products kitchen knives. Just google for Kasumi knives and you will know it is not some unknown brand....... just that the stones are more like supplementary products for their knives, and they only got 2 combination stones and that's it. I mean it will be good if someone is just trying to get a wide range stones with varying grit without breaking the bank.

You dun believe me, that is your choice. I am just trying to let some EDMWers here know there are cheaper alternative beside ordering from Internet, because Internet you still got to wait for shipping and of course pay for the shipping. And of course, the main difference is you get to look, see and touch the stones before you decide. That's all I am trying to tell fellow EDMWers here, I am not saying anything bad about your purchase if that is what you think.

If you can't look past the fact that I am just trying to be helpful because not many people in Singapore actually knew where to buy them, then just ignore my posts. And so far only Kasumi stones are actually selling in Takashimaya, the rest we just sell in showroom only.
I'm replying to state some facts.

1. Ordering from internet is 90% of the time cheaper than buying from retailers in Singapore. For eg, Airbrush is almost 18 dollars cheaper and Rift is approximately 50 dollars cheaper when ordering online with shipping charges.

2. Kasumi Stones being whetstones will wear out faster than Diamond stones, having combination is not good if one is using frequently, also depends on knife material, HRC, angle of blade, etc.

3. The thing about kasumi stones is that they are unknown to the majority or may have been tested, but did not make the expectation.

To elaborate on point number 3:

Of course most of the time, buying choices are affected by reviews from one's social circle. The more reviews the better as it helps one to paint a mental picture on the product, based on one's past experience with something similar or a combination of similar experiences.

If a product is as good as a company claims it to be, there should be alot of reviews by now. Kitchen Samurai would have a hit with 'Kasumi' whetstones as search string.

I am also informing the forum users on things that they need to be aware of, or remind them.

What really irritates me is you sounded like a salesman trying to push 'inferior' (subjective) stones to unwary users that doesn't even holds a single review. To me, these products are a cause of suspicion.

Just to let everyone know, different 8000 grit stones gives different feel when sharpening and different finishes. What may look like mirror may not work as great.

With that, I bow out and leave the decision to the forum users.
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Old 28-04-2009, 11:45 AM   #655
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I'm replying to state some facts.

1. Ordering from internet is 90% of the time cheaper than buying from retailers in Singapore. For eg, Airbrush is almost 18 dollars cheaper and Rift is approximately 50 dollars cheaper when ordering online with shipping charges.

2. Kasumi Stones being whetstones will wear out faster than Diamond stones, having combination is not good if one is using frequently, also depends on knife material, HRC, angle of blade, etc.

3. The thing about kasumi stones is that they are unknown to the majority or may have been tested, but did not make the expectation.

To elaborate on point number 3:

Of course most of the time, buying choices are affected by reviews from one's social circle. The more reviews the better as it helps one to paint a mental picture on the product, based on one's past experience with something similar or a combination of similar experiences.

If a product is as good as a company claims it to be, there should be alot of reviews by now. Kitchen Samurai would have a hit with 'Kasumi' whetstones as search string.

I am also informing the forum users on things that they need to be aware of, or remind them.

What really irritates me is you sounded like a salesman trying to push 'inferior' (subjective) stones to unwary users that doesn't even holds a single review. To me, these products are a cause of suspicion.

Just to let everyone know, different 8000 grit stones gives different feel when sharpening and different finishes. What may look like mirror may not work as great.

With that, I bow out and leave the decision to the forum users.
Whether inferior or not, we can leave it to users of the product to decide, I am definitely not a user of such stones, you maybe a tad too suspicious about the whole thing. I simply present to you guys whatever information I have on hand, that includes pricing and the kind of discount normally given. I know since I work as Sales Admin (Note NOT Salesman) and I normally answer similar questions about pricing and discount either over the phone or visitor of the showroom. We sold a couple of Kasumi whetstones and yet to receive any complaints about the products so I really do not know if this means the product is "inferior" as deemed by you just because there is a lack of reviews. I mean the brand is definitely not as well known as Naniwa, Kitayama or Shapton, but doesn't necessary means it produce inferior product.

I tried my best to give whatever information I have on the kind of stones I have, and of course, I tried to recommend cheaper alternative as I feel that during such bad times, maybe people are looking for costs saving deals.

It is clearly a misunderstanding, I though you guys are looking for a simple whetstone that will not break the bank, and considering that it is such bad times.

And about the pricing being cheaper on Internet, not necessary so.

http://www.amazon.com/Kasumi-Combina.../dp/B00063Q98I -> Amazon selling this whetstone at $105.95, probably in USD and comes with free shipping, not sure if it will send to Singapore for free.

The price we have over here is $199 with 30% discount which is $139.30, and of course, you can actually touch and see the stone. But of course certain products are indeed cheaper on Internet.

Anyway, this is an unfortunate misunderstanding, but if you really think I am a pushy salesman or some conman, that is where you are wrong, I got xXDragonXx asking me about certain product, I answered him in PM and he ask me to add him in MSN, but did I go and bug him to buy. No. Go ask him. What I only did is just quote him the price when he ask me.

Anyway, it is up to the individual to decide where and how they spent their money. And I certainly dun earn a single cent from it, I am only happy if they get what they are looking for and be happy with it.

Anyway, wish you good luck with your new hoot.
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Old 28-04-2009, 02:08 PM   #656
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Whether inferior or not, we can leave it to users of the product to decide, I am definitely not a user of such stones, you maybe a tad too suspicious about the whole thing. I simply present to you guys whatever information I have on hand, that includes pricing and the kind of discount normally given. I know since I work as Sales Admin (Note NOT Salesman) and I normally answer similar questions about pricing and discount either over the phone or visitor of the showroom. We sold a couple of Kasumi whetstones and yet to receive any complaints about the products so I really do not know if this means the product is "inferior" as deemed by you just because there is a lack of reviews. I mean the brand is definitely not as well known as Naniwa, Kitayama or Shapton, but doesn't necessary means it produce inferior product.
I have stressed a lot of times that a sharpening stone's quality is not known by touching or feeling the stone surface. It's the actual sharpening process that tells the user if the stone is doing a good job.

As of many products, there are always different grades. Perhaps, Kasumi is not using better 'stones' in it's fabrication? Nothing is known on it's material makeup. It will only be normal to assume if such information is not forthcoming, then the stone is of lower grade.

I tried my best to give whatever information I have on the kind of stones I have, and of course, I tried to recommend cheaper alternative as I feel that during such bad times, maybe people are looking for costs saving deals.

It is clearly a misunderstanding, I though you guys are looking for a simple whetstone that will not break the bank, and considering that it is such bad times.

And about the pricing being cheaper on Internet, not necessary so.

http://www.amazon.com/Kasumi-Combina.../dp/B00063Q98I -> Amazon selling this whetstone at $105.95, probably in USD and comes with free shipping, not sure if it will send to Singapore for free.

The price we have over here is $199 with 30% discount which is $139.30, and of course, you can actually touch and see the stone. But of course certain products are indeed cheaper on Internet.
I am not paying $140 for a piece of stone that does not hold a single review. Products that are good will have people spreading word about it.

I dun think all Kasumi stone users are unable to access the internet to give a in-depth review about their $140 stones. Or are they suffering in silence that they have paid $140 for a piece of stone no better than those in the wet market?

Anyway, this is an unfortunate misunderstanding, but if you really think I am a pushy salesman or some conman, that is where you are wrong, I got xXDragonXx asking me about certain product, I answered him in PM and he ask me to add him in MSN, but did I go and bug him to buy. No. Go ask him. What I only did is just quote him the price when he ask me.

Anyway, it is up to the individual to decide where and how they spent their money. And I certainly dun earn a single cent from it, I am only happy if they get what they are looking for and be happy with it.

Anyway, wish you good luck with your new hoot.
Sarcasm ?

I wouldn't be so bored as to bother whoever your alibi is. Really. Quite frankly, I find it hard to believe any single thing that you are saying due to your attitude.

But I do agree that people can spend their hard-earned money as they deem fit. No Objections. I simply went for the most reviewed items to avoid ending up in disappointment. And rest assured, I will fare better than those who bought Kasumi stones.
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Old 28-04-2009, 06:28 PM   #657
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dun spoil thread leh.
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Old 28-04-2009, 06:31 PM   #658
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Hopeless..........

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Old 28-04-2009, 10:21 PM   #659
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My take on sharpening has always been that it is about maintenance. I like sharp knives. A dull blade will cut and hurt you a lot worst than a dull one. There's been many occasions I've been cut by my knife and I didn't feel a thing, only to realise it when I stained my shirt. . Some find sharpening therapeutic (even spritual) but I guess to each his own. There's the cheap and effective way or the more extravagant way. I think there is generally a bit too much pre-occupation on the tools but too little focus on the techniques. You can have a 200 dollar stone but if you can't sharpen freehand for nuts it's still going to be an expensive paperweight. I do however understand that people generally want the best that they can afford. For those new to sharpening knives an expensive stone is not all that necessary. I've been using those so called "cheap wet market" stones for years and they've worked just fine. In case you're wondering those butchers and fishmongers use their knives more than any of us average folks do in a whole month (heck maybe the whole year). These stones may be cheap but they work and if you are reprofiling a blade these stones (silicon carbide, SiC) will actually work a whole lot better than any Japanese stone which are composed of mainly silica as the cutting agent, i.e. sand. As I proceeded into the hobby of knives I did pick up a few other methods such as the sand paper method and stropping. No I'm not a knife expert and I don't claim to be.. But the following is what has worked for me.

Sandpaper Sharpening
In this method a piece of sandpaper is mounted with spray adhesive on a flat piece of material (i prefer a small piece of glass, 1feet X 4inch). I usually use 400-500 grit to start and proceed to 800 and later 1200. Use wet and dry (black/green)... Glass paper are useless. Most of my knives never have much of a chance to dull as I am usually very disciplined with sharpening so most times its 800 and then 1200. To make sure you are getting every bit of the edge mark it with permanent marker and sharpen the knife. That way you'll know if you miss a spot as the section still has ink. The one question many want to know is when do i change side... Equal no. of strokes is the usual advice but I usually sharpen until I form a burr on the other side as the metal curves/ bends as I sharpen. You can feel this by running your fingernail on the opposite side you are sharpening, it feels rough. That's the time I flip the knife over to "knock off" the burr by sharpening the other side. Repeat until you get the desired sharpness you want. A piece of sandpaper will probably make 2 to 3 good sharpening stone/ surface and they're a heck lot cheaper than those stones you see sold online. A tip... Go slow, keep a good angle and use minimal pressure. The weight of the knife plus a bit more to keep the knife on it's path is generally enough. Cheap and packs into my strong box easily... Practice on mummy's/ wife's kitchen knives first. That's what I did.

Stropping
If you want a polished edge after sharpening a good strop is what you need. Glue a strip of leather belt (wrong side up, leather must be raw, untanned, unvarnished) on a piece of wood, go to a hardware store and buy rubbing compound (also known as automotive compound). Spread it on the leather surface thinly. Proceed as previously but instead of pushing the edge away, draw it towards you. A couple of swipes on each side will knock off any micro-serrations to give a polished edge. If you prefer to buy a strop theres a shop at golder mile complex that sells them (basement), they sell them to barbers as they stock salon stuff.

Systems
The only sharpening system I've used is the sharpmaker. Cheap and effective especially on serrations. Sold it though as I have very few knives with serrations (most have been sold) and the ones I have left I sharpen with a ceramic rod. The DMT seems affordable and many have praised it. Right now I just want to keep things simple. Sandpaper, strop and occasionally the market stones (when reprofiling) will do for me.

P.S. Reprofiling and sharpening is not the same. When you reprofile yo are changing the angle of the edge. Most knives are 30degrees. It is tough and laborious work. Half an hour is not uncommon. I tried it once on a Spydie Endura (change to 15degree inclusive) and it is not something I want to do again. On a sabre/ chisel grind it is ok to try it on your own but if the knife is a V-grind it may be better to send it to a pro.
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Old 28-04-2009, 11:11 PM   #660
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Sarcasm ?

I wouldn't be so bored as to bother whoever your alibi is. Really. Quite frankly, I find it hard to believe any single thing that you are saying due to your attitude.

But I do agree that people can spend their hard-earned money as they deem fit. No Objections. I simply went for the most reviewed items to avoid ending up in disappointment. And rest assured, I will fare better than those who bought Kasumi stones.
What he says is true.

I dont see anything wrong with his attitude, you might be misunderstanding his intentions....
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