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Old 03-10-2015, 10:15 PM   #8161
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801 is heavy. but very ergonomic and solid. People will get scared but it's well made, ti handles, bearing assisted flipper and oh..ELMAX steel. The only downside is the black clip (Todd Rexford had to swallow that). For USD200, it can't be beat.

Manix LW - flat handles and thin. yay or nay depending on what you like. sometimes a narrower but fatter handle works better. Manix has a big flat wide blade - scarier IMO than 801. It looks like the kitchen utility knife - and most criminals like kitchen blades. I love it for food prep.

BD-1 - no experience, but it's a basic 440C type steel.

PM2 - compression lock. yes, depending on the width of your palm, it may have a longish handle (I personally preferred the handle length of PM1 but most people will say that the PM2 is a huge improvement over PM1). I think it's more ergonomic than Manix.

Try looking for a FFG Delica in VG10. That'll work perfect as your 3" EDC blade.
When i just started looking at knives, the 801 was one of the ones that really caught my eye, but as i started to edc, i realized the weight would be a little over the top. Agree on elmax, Absolutely loved it on my 0566.

I'll stay off the PM2 for the time being, probably get one in the near future. Hopefully when the USD isnt so strong. Don't really like the delica as it's a lockback. Played with my dad's old spyderco ( dont know the model ) and i didnt like the lockback at all.

Anyways, I re-ordered an 0566BW. Realized it's really what i'm looking for, albeit still a little big, and jeff was nice enough to give me a good deal. Will probably get the manix soon as a gift for someone

Cts bd1 is one grade above Aus8. It has higher carbon content. More edge retention and more corrosion resistance. Equivalent to Aus10 or 440C.
Cool. Thanks for the explanation!
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Old 04-10-2015, 01:52 PM   #8162
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I'll stay off the PM2 for the time being, probably get one in the near future. Hopefully when the USD isnt so strong.
The new S110V is already slowly coming in stock at several dealers, by the end of the year should have steady stock. Might be up your alley if you like crazy steels like that.

As for the near future, you might want to wait for the PM3 to come out. Not sure when that'll be, but so far from the details that have been floating around, it is a slightly smaller version of the PM2 with a 3 inch blade.
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Old 04-10-2015, 08:45 PM   #8163
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I'd avoid the s90 and s110 unless you don't mind microchipping. Unless they lower the rc.
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Old 04-10-2015, 08:46 PM   #8164
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Vg10, elmax, m390, s35, ctsxhp ok
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Old 06-10-2015, 04:42 PM   #8165
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Honestly am very intrigued by the PM2, but the handle length seems off to me. Also, big blades seem to have a scare factor behind them and I don't like to have to keep explaining why i like knives to people who think they only can be used to harm others. I like the 801 too, but it'll get pretty heavy during work especially when i have my multi tool on the same side of my pants

Funnily I'm really diggin both the G10 coated and the new LW coated Manix 2.

Anyone can comment on the BD1 steel?

Looks pretty cool and the Domino is drawing me in as well. I agree that the CF looks pretty ugly though.
Both are pretty functional.. PM2 vs 801
I have a love hate affair with Spydie by now.. Most just look like cheap toy with their 2D-ish effect but many are really nice to when it comes to using instead of potato-couching to open and close a knife while doing nothing practical.

The PM2 never grew on me until I held one in my hand.. (I like bigger knives) and its a nice glove fit. Don't own one but if some comes along at reasonable price I probably will snag it as a user.

801 has more of a "knife" look. But seriously need a better looking after market clip to dress it up imo. the blade is a little bit thick for me though it has a relatively wide factory edge to compensate but for certain cutting action u are gonna find the "shoulder" of the edge gets in the way .. so it depends on your uses and application. Yea its a little meaty in the pocket... ok when holding and using though- the weight + thick blade gives a very stable firm feel to it...

Dont have experience with BD-1..

Last edited by anvil_den; 06-10-2015 at 04:44 PM..
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Old 06-10-2015, 06:56 PM   #8166
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The Gratch is HERE!

Hi all, got my Gratch last night and was really excited to get it in hand.

After playing around with it for a day, here are some initial impressions:

1) Fit and finish is excellent. On par with reate or even better
2) Action: Smooth smooth action. The smoothness here is very different from what u find on a ZT560. Its more of a controlled smoothness as compared to free falling kind. Detent is pretty strong but i would say a Reate Horizon C has a more explosive detent. That said, best flipper i have.
3) Flipper tab favours a push button more than a light switch
4) Ergonomics are good using the handle or with the finger choil
5) ITS A REALLY BEAUTIFUL KNIFE. the CF is so vibrant on this one (wish i could post photos)
6) the blade was not razor sharp unfortunately.

Anyway that being said, to answer a question i posted earlier on whether its worth it? My verdict is:

No. Why? Because the increase in quality did not warrant such a leap in price at least in my opinion. I would have been contented with another Reate or ZT for half the price. I much rather spend on the 20% of knives that has qualities that make it 80% perfect.

But that is my own opinion. Well so i guess i will just be sticking to high end production knives rather than production knives at the mid tech price range. I do suppose the CKF is meant to have a mid tech quality (at least from my understanding)
anvil_den likes this.

Last edited by TheBUSTED; 06-10-2015 at 06:59 PM..
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Old 06-10-2015, 08:38 PM   #8167
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The new S110V is already slowly coming in stock at several dealers, by the end of the year should have steady stock. Might be up your alley if you like crazy steels like that.

As for the near future, you might want to wait for the PM3 to come out. Not sure when that'll be, but so far from the details that have been floating around, it is a slightly smaller version of the PM2 with a 3 inch blade.
A smaller PM2 sounds fantastic TBH! Will keep a lookout for that!
I'd avoid the s90 and s110 unless you don't mind microchipping. Unless they lower the rc.
Sorry for the noob question but what is RC??

Both are pretty functional.. PM2 vs 801
I have a love hate affair with Spydie by now.. Most just look like cheap toy with their 2D-ish effect but many are really nice to when it comes to using instead of potato-couching to open and close a knife while doing nothing practical.

The PM2 never grew on me until I held one in my hand.. (I like bigger knives) and its a nice glove fit. Don't own one but if some comes along at reasonable price I probably will snag it as a user.

801 has more of a "knife" look. But seriously need a better looking after market clip to dress it up imo. the blade is a little bit thick for me though it has a relatively wide factory edge to compensate but for certain cutting action u are gonna find the "shoulder" of the edge gets in the way .. so it depends on your uses and application. Yea its a little meaty in the pocket... ok when holding and using though- the weight + thick blade gives a very stable firm feel to it...

Dont have experience with BD-1..
Sounds like I should really go and have a feel for the PM2. Or maybe the PM3. Indeed the ZT0801's clip looks a little out of place but I just hate the spyderco 3 screw clips. I really dig the blackwash 0801, but then again I doubt I'd ever order one of their knives not in BW!
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Old 06-10-2015, 10:40 PM   #8168
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Sorry for the noob question but what is RC??
RC, or HRC, is the Rockwell Hardness on the C scale.

These so-called "supersteels" tend to have a HRC in the 60s range. They'll chip because they're hard and hence brittle. Softer steels tend to "roll" over in use.

It is always a trade-off. Harder steels have superior edge retention but are harder to sharpen and even more so when they chip. Softer steels will "roll" over at the edge, making them easier to sharpen but they will have inferior edge retention.
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Old 06-10-2015, 11:28 PM   #8169
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RC, or HRC, is the Rockwell Hardness on the C scale.

These so-called "supersteels" tend to have a HRC in the 60s range. They'll chip because they're hard and hence brittle. Softer steels tend to "roll" over in use.

It is always a trade-off. Harder steels have superior edge retention but are harder to sharpen and even more so when they chip. Softer steels will "roll" over at the edge, making them easier to sharpen but they will have inferior edge retention.
OH yes yes I was thinking Something content and wondering what's the R standing for. Experienced this with my Leatherman Charge TTI. the blade chipped within the first week of use
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Old 07-10-2015, 11:06 AM   #8170
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Hi all, got my Gratch last night and was really excited to get it in hand.

After playing around with it for a day, here are some initial impressions:

1) Fit and finish is excellent. On par with reate or even better
2) Action: Smooth smooth action. The smoothness here is very different from what u find on a ZT560. Its more of a controlled smoothness as compared to free falling kind. Detent is pretty strong but i would say a Reate Horizon C has a more explosive detent. That said, best flipper i have.
3) Flipper tab favours a push button more than a light switch
4) Ergonomics are good using the handle or with the finger choil
5) ITS A REALLY BEAUTIFUL KNIFE. the CF is so vibrant on this one (wish i could post photos)
6) the blade was not razor sharp unfortunately.

Anyway that being said, to answer a question i posted earlier on whether its worth it? My verdict is:

No. Why? Because the increase in quality did not warrant such a leap in price at least in my opinion. I would have been contented with another Reate or ZT for half the price. I much rather spend on the 20% of knives that has qualities that make it 80% perfect.

But that is my own opinion. Well so i guess i will just be sticking to high end production knives rather than production knives at the mid tech price range. I do suppose the CKF is meant to have a mid tech quality (at least from my understanding)
Congrats! Pics? Price? Specs?
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Old 07-10-2015, 01:28 PM   #8171
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Hi all, got my Gratch last night and was really excited to get it in hand.

After playing around with it for a day, here are some initial impressions:

1) Fit and finish is excellent. On par with reate or even better
2) Action: Smooth smooth action. The smoothness here is very different from what u find on a ZT560. Its more of a controlled smoothness as compared to free falling kind. Detent is pretty strong but i would say a Reate Horizon C has a more explosive detent. That said, best flipper i have.
3) Flipper tab favours a push button more than a light switch
4) Ergonomics are good using the handle or with the finger choil
5) ITS A REALLY BEAUTIFUL KNIFE. the CF is so vibrant on this one (wish i could post photos)
6) the blade was not razor sharp unfortunately.

Anyway that being said, to answer a question i posted earlier on whether its worth it? My verdict is:

No. Why? Because the increase in quality did not warrant such a leap in price at least in my opinion. I would have been contented with another Reate or ZT for half the price. I much rather spend on the 20% of knives that has qualities that make it 80% perfect.

But that is my own opinion. Well so i they guess i will just be sticking to high end production knives rather than production knives at the mid tech price range. I do suppose the CKF is meant to have a mid tech quality (at least from my understanding)
Thanks for the review
CKF is really trying hard to carve a niche for themselves..
From Russia- -mention a knife-- chances are people think of Shirogorovs. I'm a big time fanboy myself for their stuff. In a way they have secured a first mover advantage But there are few more others like them.. just not as aggressive and into the international market or as focused in just folderrs but nevertheless all real Russian made knives.

CKF position themselves mid way. Knife designs by Russian standards.. but made in China to reduce cost and try to have a healthy margin again by price positioning mid way between
top chinese clones of russian knives and real russian knives.

I don't think its "worth" simply because their cost is probably not so high to justfiy that kind of selling price. . I am not junking who/ where it's made. To be honest a lot of these Chinese knives are well made ( in terms of mechanism and action (but HT of the steel in use is another matter though) but all those association with clones just water their image down in general.

Even when making clones-- a lot of times things are deliberately done to reduce the quality so that there are top tier and 2nd grade clones .. its all about marketing

Watch for it-- another quiet Chinese knifemaking contender who start out like most cloning knives-- has a number of nice protos of his own now in the work.

Last edited by anvil_den; 07-10-2015 at 02:17 PM..
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Old 07-10-2015, 02:33 PM   #8172
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Hi all, got my Gratch last night and was really excited to get it in hand.

After playing around with it for a day, here are some initial impressions:

1) Fit and finish is excellent. On par with reate or even better
2) Action: Smooth smooth action. The smoothness here is very different from what u find on a ZT560. Its more of a controlled smoothness as compared to free falling kind. Detent is pretty strong but i would say a Reate Horizon C has a more explosive detent. That said, best flipper i have.
3) Flipper tab favours a push button more than a light switch
4) Ergonomics are good using the handle or with the finger choil
5) ITS A REALLY BEAUTIFUL KNIFE. the CF is so vibrant on this one (wish i could post photos)
6) the blade was not razor sharp unfortunately.

Anyway that being said, to answer a question i posted earlier on whether its worth it? My verdict is:

No. Why? Because the increase in quality did not warrant such a leap in price at least in my opinion. I would have been contented with another Reate or ZT for half the price. I much rather spend on the 20% of knives that has qualities that make it 80% perfect.

But that is my own opinion. Well so i guess i will just be sticking to high end production knives rather than production knives at the mid tech price range. I do suppose the CKF is meant to have a mid tech quality (at least from my understanding)
This is my personal view... But I strongly believe that midtechs are simply a way to charge more for production knives... Simply put... What greater value do they propose beyond production knives? A few touches from the maker (if at all) for a few hundred bucks? Sorry, I'll pass.

In my opinion, if u want to go for something for usability etc, productions are your go to. If you are collecting customs, then we're talking a different ball game totally... Where u pay for your choice of materials, the designs, their personal attention to detail, design and art, among other things. Do customs perform 10x as well? I doubt so. If u are looking for performance, using this example .. 10x production knives vs 1 custom... It's obvious that the 10 productions will last longer.

Of course, if you are open to discussing customs, I'm open to sharing my views. It is indeed fun talking about different aspects of this rather unusual hobby.
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Old 07-10-2015, 08:51 PM   #8173
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when it's a small company with few people - - every production becomes a mid-tech. When its small company with designer but nothing produced in house-- its not even midtech imo.

Customs can be very nice but mostly overpriced knives especially in the case of folders.

Basically a lot of time trying to define these differences is really a unique first world phenomenon for all of us behind a keyboard Rusty knives from villagers to where I traveled has often served the purposed much better than whatever "1st world knives" I brought along
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Old 08-10-2015, 06:02 AM   #8174
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RC, or HRC, is the Rockwell Hardness on the C scale.

These so-called "supersteels" tend to have a HRC in the 60s range. They'll chip because they're hard and hence brittle. Softer steels tend to "roll" over in use.

It is always a trade-off. Harder steels have superior edge retention but are harder to sharpen and even more so when they chip. Softer steels will "roll" over at the edge, making them easier to sharpen but they will have inferior edge retention.
But of course this is just very simple outlook on steel.

You will ask... is there a steel with both good hardness and toughness?

Yes.

One of the best steel for knives is CPM 3V. It has good enough edge retention for a knife and is super tough at HRC 58 hardness.

Then you will ask me why dun all knife makers change to CPM 3V?

simply because the steel is cheaper and hard to justify higher prices for knives.
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Old 08-10-2015, 07:57 AM   #8175
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But of course this is just very simple outlook on steel.

You will ask... is there a steel with both good hardness and toughness?

Yes.

One of the best steel for knives is CPM 3V. It has good enough edge retention for a knife and is super tough at HRC 58 hardness.

Then you will ask me why dun all knife makers change to CPM 3V?

simply because the steel is cheaper and hard to justify higher prices for knives.
I don't believe that is the case. Most metals are cheap, be it m390 and even some super steels. It is your assumption that makers charge more for the steels,but I don't mirror that. Makers charge for the time they spend making their knives(in the case of customs). Top tier makers like Flavio Ikoma uses 154cm or S30v. Tony Bose uses 154cm as well. Look at their prices, etc. Even production companies which use a variety of other steels charge pretty much the same prices.

A simple search from alphaknifesupply.com under their blades/metals section will show most prices and they're not the cheapest supplier. Prices jump very much higher when u are talking exotic steels like forged damascus, sm100,stellite 6k etc. Production knife companies get their steel way cheaper because they buy in bulk, so the prices aren't their deciding factor.

As a knife enthusiast, my knowledge of metals is nothing compared to yours, but cpm-3V is not a perfect steel. There is no such thing. All metals have 3 components ;edge retention, corrosion resistance(whether it is rusts or not) and toughness. And there is no metal with all 3 perfect attributes. While cpm-3v has very good toughness and decent edge retention, it is a non stainless steel and can rust. Not everybody likes non stainless steels, especially so for people staying in the humid tropics, or near beaches.

Last edited by mamba2012; 08-10-2015 at 08:05 AM..
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