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Old 06-10-2015, 11:28 PM   #8161
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RC, or HRC, is the Rockwell Hardness on the C scale.

These so-called "supersteels" tend to have a HRC in the 60s range. They'll chip because they're hard and hence brittle. Softer steels tend to "roll" over in use.

It is always a trade-off. Harder steels have superior edge retention but are harder to sharpen and even more so when they chip. Softer steels will "roll" over at the edge, making them easier to sharpen but they will have inferior edge retention.
OH yes yes I was thinking Something content and wondering what's the R standing for. Experienced this with my Leatherman Charge TTI. the blade chipped within the first week of use
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Old 07-10-2015, 11:06 AM   #8162
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Hi all, got my Gratch last night and was really excited to get it in hand.

After playing around with it for a day, here are some initial impressions:

1) Fit and finish is excellent. On par with reate or even better
2) Action: Smooth smooth action. The smoothness here is very different from what u find on a ZT560. Its more of a controlled smoothness as compared to free falling kind. Detent is pretty strong but i would say a Reate Horizon C has a more explosive detent. That said, best flipper i have.
3) Flipper tab favours a push button more than a light switch
4) Ergonomics are good using the handle or with the finger choil
5) ITS A REALLY BEAUTIFUL KNIFE. the CF is so vibrant on this one (wish i could post photos)
6) the blade was not razor sharp unfortunately.

Anyway that being said, to answer a question i posted earlier on whether its worth it? My verdict is:

No. Why? Because the increase in quality did not warrant such a leap in price at least in my opinion. I would have been contented with another Reate or ZT for half the price. I much rather spend on the 20% of knives that has qualities that make it 80% perfect.

But that is my own opinion. Well so i guess i will just be sticking to high end production knives rather than production knives at the mid tech price range. I do suppose the CKF is meant to have a mid tech quality (at least from my understanding)
Congrats! Pics? Price? Specs?
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Old 07-10-2015, 01:28 PM   #8163
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Hi all, got my Gratch last night and was really excited to get it in hand.

After playing around with it for a day, here are some initial impressions:

1) Fit and finish is excellent. On par with reate or even better
2) Action: Smooth smooth action. The smoothness here is very different from what u find on a ZT560. Its more of a controlled smoothness as compared to free falling kind. Detent is pretty strong but i would say a Reate Horizon C has a more explosive detent. That said, best flipper i have.
3) Flipper tab favours a push button more than a light switch
4) Ergonomics are good using the handle or with the finger choil
5) ITS A REALLY BEAUTIFUL KNIFE. the CF is so vibrant on this one (wish i could post photos)
6) the blade was not razor sharp unfortunately.

Anyway that being said, to answer a question i posted earlier on whether its worth it? My verdict is:

No. Why? Because the increase in quality did not warrant such a leap in price at least in my opinion. I would have been contented with another Reate or ZT for half the price. I much rather spend on the 20% of knives that has qualities that make it 80% perfect.

But that is my own opinion. Well so i they guess i will just be sticking to high end production knives rather than production knives at the mid tech price range. I do suppose the CKF is meant to have a mid tech quality (at least from my understanding)
Thanks for the review
CKF is really trying hard to carve a niche for themselves..
From Russia- -mention a knife-- chances are people think of Shirogorovs. I'm a big time fanboy myself for their stuff. In a way they have secured a first mover advantage But there are few more others like them.. just not as aggressive and into the international market or as focused in just folderrs but nevertheless all real Russian made knives.

CKF position themselves mid way. Knife designs by Russian standards.. but made in China to reduce cost and try to have a healthy margin again by price positioning mid way between
top chinese clones of russian knives and real russian knives.

I don't think its "worth" simply because their cost is probably not so high to justfiy that kind of selling price. . I am not junking who/ where it's made. To be honest a lot of these Chinese knives are well made ( in terms of mechanism and action (but HT of the steel in use is another matter though) but all those association with clones just water their image down in general.

Even when making clones-- a lot of times things are deliberately done to reduce the quality so that there are top tier and 2nd grade clones .. its all about marketing

Watch for it-- another quiet Chinese knifemaking contender who start out like most cloning knives-- has a number of nice protos of his own now in the work.

Last edited by anvil_den; 07-10-2015 at 02:17 PM..
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Old 07-10-2015, 02:33 PM   #8164
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Hi all, got my Gratch last night and was really excited to get it in hand.

After playing around with it for a day, here are some initial impressions:

1) Fit and finish is excellent. On par with reate or even better
2) Action: Smooth smooth action. The smoothness here is very different from what u find on a ZT560. Its more of a controlled smoothness as compared to free falling kind. Detent is pretty strong but i would say a Reate Horizon C has a more explosive detent. That said, best flipper i have.
3) Flipper tab favours a push button more than a light switch
4) Ergonomics are good using the handle or with the finger choil
5) ITS A REALLY BEAUTIFUL KNIFE. the CF is so vibrant on this one (wish i could post photos)
6) the blade was not razor sharp unfortunately.

Anyway that being said, to answer a question i posted earlier on whether its worth it? My verdict is:

No. Why? Because the increase in quality did not warrant such a leap in price at least in my opinion. I would have been contented with another Reate or ZT for half the price. I much rather spend on the 20% of knives that has qualities that make it 80% perfect.

But that is my own opinion. Well so i guess i will just be sticking to high end production knives rather than production knives at the mid tech price range. I do suppose the CKF is meant to have a mid tech quality (at least from my understanding)
This is my personal view... But I strongly believe that midtechs are simply a way to charge more for production knives... Simply put... What greater value do they propose beyond production knives? A few touches from the maker (if at all) for a few hundred bucks? Sorry, I'll pass.

In my opinion, if u want to go for something for usability etc, productions are your go to. If you are collecting customs, then we're talking a different ball game totally... Where u pay for your choice of materials, the designs, their personal attention to detail, design and art, among other things. Do customs perform 10x as well? I doubt so. If u are looking for performance, using this example .. 10x production knives vs 1 custom... It's obvious that the 10 productions will last longer.

Of course, if you are open to discussing customs, I'm open to sharing my views. It is indeed fun talking about different aspects of this rather unusual hobby.
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Old 07-10-2015, 08:51 PM   #8165
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when it's a small company with few people - - every production becomes a mid-tech. When its small company with designer but nothing produced in house-- its not even midtech imo.

Customs can be very nice but mostly overpriced knives especially in the case of folders.

Basically a lot of time trying to define these differences is really a unique first world phenomenon for all of us behind a keyboard Rusty knives from villagers to where I traveled has often served the purposed much better than whatever "1st world knives" I brought along
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Old 08-10-2015, 06:02 AM   #8166
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RC, or HRC, is the Rockwell Hardness on the C scale.

These so-called "supersteels" tend to have a HRC in the 60s range. They'll chip because they're hard and hence brittle. Softer steels tend to "roll" over in use.

It is always a trade-off. Harder steels have superior edge retention but are harder to sharpen and even more so when they chip. Softer steels will "roll" over at the edge, making them easier to sharpen but they will have inferior edge retention.
But of course this is just very simple outlook on steel.

You will ask... is there a steel with both good hardness and toughness?

Yes.

One of the best steel for knives is CPM 3V. It has good enough edge retention for a knife and is super tough at HRC 58 hardness.

Then you will ask me why dun all knife makers change to CPM 3V?

simply because the steel is cheaper and hard to justify higher prices for knives.
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Old 08-10-2015, 07:57 AM   #8167
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But of course this is just very simple outlook on steel.

You will ask... is there a steel with both good hardness and toughness?

Yes.

One of the best steel for knives is CPM 3V. It has good enough edge retention for a knife and is super tough at HRC 58 hardness.

Then you will ask me why dun all knife makers change to CPM 3V?

simply because the steel is cheaper and hard to justify higher prices for knives.
I don't believe that is the case. Most metals are cheap, be it m390 and even some super steels. It is your assumption that makers charge more for the steels,but I don't mirror that. Makers charge for the time they spend making their knives(in the case of customs). Top tier makers like Flavio Ikoma uses 154cm or S30v. Tony Bose uses 154cm as well. Look at their prices, etc. Even production companies which use a variety of other steels charge pretty much the same prices.

A simple search from alphaknifesupply.com under their blades/metals section will show most prices and they're not the cheapest supplier. Prices jump very much higher when u are talking exotic steels like forged damascus, sm100,stellite 6k etc. Production knife companies get their steel way cheaper because they buy in bulk, so the prices aren't their deciding factor.

As a knife enthusiast, my knowledge of metals is nothing compared to yours, but cpm-3V is not a perfect steel. There is no such thing. All metals have 3 components ;edge retention, corrosion resistance(whether it is rusts or not) and toughness. And there is no metal with all 3 perfect attributes. While cpm-3v has very good toughness and decent edge retention, it is a non stainless steel and can rust. Not everybody likes non stainless steels, especially so for people staying in the humid tropics, or near beaches.

Last edited by mamba2012; 08-10-2015 at 08:05 AM..
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Old 09-10-2015, 01:14 PM   #8168
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New comer questions

Hi all,

I am new to this thread/forum. Currently thinking of buying a spyderco knife, the option I have in mind are: Ambitious, Dragonfly2, Delica 4, Chapparal or Sage1/3, basically aiming for EDC carry with short blade and non-threatening looks. But have some questions on where should I buy from:

1. are the online retailers mentioned in this thread reliable? such as kinfecenter.com, cutleryshoppe.com? Would I face any risk with the custom when package arrive?
2. Has anyone bought from edgepedition.com? Looks like a singapore based online retailer but do not know their reputation.
3. Any other brick/mortar shop I can visit besides hock-gift ship or sheares to see or buy the real thing?

Really appreciate if someone can help to answer above. Thanks a lot!
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Old 09-10-2015, 04:08 PM   #8169
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Hi all,

I am new to this thread/forum. Currently thinking of buying a spyderco knife, the option I have in mind are: Ambitious, Dragonfly2, Delica 4, Chapparal or Sage1/3, basically aiming for EDC carry with short blade and non-threatening looks. But have some questions on where should I buy from:

1. are the online retailers mentioned in this thread reliable? such as kinfecenter.com, cutleryshoppe.com? Would I face any risk with the custom when package arrive?
2. Has anyone bought from edgepedition.com? Looks like a singapore based online retailer but do not know their reputation.
3. Any other brick/mortar shop I can visit besides hock-gift ship or sheares to see or buy the real thing?

Really appreciate if someone can help to answer above. Thanks a lot!
1) Yes. USA online retailers are generally reliable. Just make sure to buy from the more recognized sites. I'll give a small list: BladeHQ, Knifecenter, Knifeworks, CutleryShoppe, KnivesShipFree, Amazon, etc.

Just be sure to do your research when it comes to some unknown sites.

I have posted a screencap in one of my previous replies from the SPF. As long as it is a manual folding knife, it will be fine.

2) Edgepedition seems to be okay reputation-wise. But I cannot speak for local retailers as I get all my stuff online. Generally, it will be more expensive to buy from local retailers.

3) Black-Tactical is one of the other brick-and-mortar shop I know. IIRC, they have some Spydercos/Benchmades (I remember seeing a Delica on the display case) but they do not list them on their website. They do not have a huge selection, so maybe it'll be a good idea to call/email them.

Nalno also seems to have a showroom, but I have no idea where that is.
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Old 09-10-2015, 04:52 PM   #8170
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Hey guys. I am looking to get my 1st EDC folding knife. Looking at the crkt heiho or the smith n wesson tatical.

Any opinion on those. Am a newbie so any advice is appreciated.
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Old 09-10-2015, 05:20 PM   #8171
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Hey guys. I am looking to get my 1st EDC folding knife. Looking at the crkt heiho or the smith n wesson tatical.

Any opinion on those. Am a newbie so any advice is appreciated.
The CRKT Heiho is pretty good, but the problem is it is assisted. I've seen people sell it online locally, so I'm not too sure what is the consensus on it. The good thing is that it is easily deassisted without causing any problems to the knife.

As for S&W in general, I do not really recommend them. But the good thing is, Black-Tactical has them available, so you can go down there and try it out.

They both have Chinese steels, so do not expect too much out of them.
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Old 09-10-2015, 09:17 PM   #8172
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2. Has anyone bought from edgepedition.com? Looks like a singapore based online retailer but do not know their reputation.
Bought my ZT0801 from them without any problems, quick message response time too, which is always nice.
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Old 09-10-2015, 09:40 PM   #8173
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1) Yes. USA online retailers are generally reliable. Just make sure to buy from the more recognized sites. I'll give a small list: BladeHQ, Knifecenter, Knifeworks, CutleryShoppe, KnivesShipFree, Amazon, etc.

Just be sure to do your research when it comes to some unknown sites.

I have posted a screencap in one of my previous replies from the SPF. As long as it is a manual folding knife, it will be fine.

2) Edgepedition seems to be okay reputation-wise. But I cannot speak for local retailers as I get all my stuff online. Generally, it will be more expensive to buy from local retailers.

3) Black-Tactical is one of the other brick-and-mortar shop I know. IIRC, they have some Spydercos/Benchmades (I remember seeing a Delica on the display case) but they do not list them on their website. They do not have a huge selection, so maybe it'll be a good idea to call/email them.

Nalno also seems to have a showroom, but I have no idea where that is.
Thanks to all who replied me!

Last edited by gluedtoscreen; 09-10-2015 at 10:02 PM..
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Old 09-10-2015, 09:58 PM   #8174
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The CRKT Heiho is pretty good, but the problem is it is assisted. I've seen people sell it online locally, so I'm not too sure what is the consensus on it. The good thing is that it is easily deassisted without causing any problems to the knife.

As for S&W in general, I do not really recommend them. But the good thing is, Black-Tactical has them available, so you can go down there and try it out.

They both have Chinese steels, so do not expect too much out of them.
Forgi e my noobness buy Why is assisted opening a problem? I thought e law only prohibits switchblade and automatic? Any member here have got good recommendations or selling any nice EDC??
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Old 10-10-2015, 12:12 AM   #8175
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Forgi e my noobness buy Why is assisted opening a problem? I thought e law only prohibits switchblade and automatic? Any member here have got good recommendations or selling any nice EDC??
The thing with assisted opening knives is that it is a grey area and no one knows fully what is allowed.

For the Heiho, the mechanism (OverLAWKs or whatever it is called) is a spring bar thingy at the back of the knife that propels it out. On paper, it does seem like it should be prohibited, but I have seen people sell it. Besides, deassisting is easy and causes no tolerance problems to the knife unlike Kershaw's Speedsafe.

If you ever buy it online, you might want to check with the retailer and see if they can remove it for you.
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