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Old 10-03-2016, 02:21 PM   #8956
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And Benchmade and ZT can openly make Shirogorov-inspired designs?
Early Benchrogorov. Dertnick circa 2005-6
Yes its a real Shirogorov.. and only recently did they stop producing the Tarbargan and 110 which are also axis lock.

There are also "Spydergorovs"-- circular holes or oval holes depending on what one likes




谁 copy 谁,乌龟 copy 铁锤
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Old 10-03-2016, 02:23 PM   #8957
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Yea I think u hit home.. they just don't see what the outside world is looking for.. It's kinda like so many things from China which we view as "obiang" I guess? But with time I'm sure they will improve and refine their aesthetics.. After all it hasn't really been all that long that Chinese makers have been accepted in the usual international markets.. Everyone starts somwhere and most would have copied off someone or another. I say give the Chinese another 2 years.. At the present rate-- the world will ball their eyes out if they know how many CNC machines there are as compared to all the overpriced US And EU countries. They literally "manufacture" machinists by the thousands per batch every few months.. Just having 1-2% of those to be really talented and dare to strike out- the West better look out. Be scared. Be very very scared.
The biggest void in their market right now is a lack of domestically produced high quality cutlery steels.

The Europeans have Bohler and Damasteel, the Americans have Carpenter and Crucible and the Japanese have Hitachi, Takefu and the likes.

Just wait till you see them develop their own high-performance cutlery steels (and sell them on the cheap).
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Old 10-03-2016, 02:43 PM   #8958
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The biggest void in their market right now is a lack of domestically produced high quality cutlery steels.

The Europeans have Bohler and Damasteel, the Americans have Carpenter and Crucible and the Japanese have Hitachi, Takefu and the likes.

Just wait till you see them develop their own high-performance cutlery steels (and sell them on the cheap).
They have 9cr18mov which, from what is discussed online, seems to be their equivalent of 440C.

I don't think China cannot produce high quality cutlery steels, but rather it is that they don't want to do so. Chinese manufacturers have already fallen into their own price trap, and they know that people buy Chinese knives because they are very affordable.

The user who only sees the knife as a simple cutting tool is not likely to need anything beyond 9cr18mov, and Chinese knives made with such steels will be shunned if they cost anything more than 20usd. The Chinese makers and factories know better than to price themselves out of the market especially when some Western brands using the same Chinese steels and factories can complete with them toe-to-toe on price even after the corporate markup.

Then there are the enthusiasts who appreciate fine design and premium steels. This is where companies like Reate and Kizer come in; because labour costs in China are much lower, they can afford to import expensive American or European steel, collaborate with famous designers, produce a premium knife and yet still sell it for about a third of what a similar Japanese, European or American knife retails for. If China makes its own premium domestic steel, there will be a perception image risk for those companies because the steel will be new in the market and people may shun away from it over fears that it may just be inferior to established supersteels until it gets properly appraised by the larger knife collecting industry. That's a lot of potential revenue loss right there.
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Old 10-03-2016, 02:50 PM   #8959
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The biggest void in their market right now is a lack of domestically produced high quality cutlery steels.

The Europeans have Bohler and Damasteel, the Americans have Carpenter and Crucible and the Japanese have Hitachi, Takefu and the likes.

Just wait till you see them develop their own high-performance cutlery steels (and sell them on the cheap).
But given the current economic doldrum-- it may be a while.
Their steel machinery is badly hammered and more bad news to come..

The other thing is also their mentality... why make sometime expensive when i can make it cheap... the demand for high end steel even across industries combined may not justify for them to go "create" these steel unless the business proposition is big and foreseeable.

and really-- after using so many knives.. I don't really see beyond a need for chinese D2 for a true EDC basis-- cheap and good. Even if I dont feel like sharpening.. use the hell outta it and buy another one for $12-25 depending on what you look for in shape and design.

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Old 10-03-2016, 02:59 PM   #8960
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Perhaps they could also focus on producing exotic materials such as Stelite and SM-100? It can serve dual purpose for their space exploration projects.

It will be a scary thought if they are able to produce such exotic blades in high quality and quantity in the future (not scary for us as consumers though).
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Old 10-03-2016, 03:34 PM   #8961
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Mao's Communism killed China... if it weren't for that! Just look back at history... the cross bow and the dual hardness bronze arrows from 2000 yrs ago were not surpassed until 1500 yrs later in the Middle Ages in EU.. even then to be more powerful-- they have complicated winding mechanisms that make the bows cumbersome and slow to reload fast enough... The Dragon is slowly waking.
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Old 10-03-2016, 04:03 PM   #8962
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Mao's Communism killed China... if it weren't for that! Just look back at history... the cross bow and the dual hardness bronze arrows from 2000 yrs ago were not surpassed until 1500 yrs later in the Middle Ages in EU.. even then to be more powerful-- they have complicated winding mechanisms that make the bows cumbersome and slow to reload fast enough... The Dragon is slowly waking.
#makechinagreatagain
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Old 10-03-2016, 04:59 PM   #8963
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China made ti flashlight looks good. Is it powerful? expensive?
It's good, for it's price, as almost comparable American-made custom titanium flashlights will easily set you back 4 to 5 hundreds bucks.
Mine less than a hundred bucks with shipping, and the price go all the way to $159 with 9 tritium vials installed on the head.
Quite powerful, will easily hit 2500 lumens on turbo.
Mine is using Nichia 219C leds, so the neutral white tint is very pleasing to the eyes, unlike those cool white bluish tint like on some Ah Beng's HID car

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Old 10-03-2016, 06:56 PM   #8964
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whoa
Yes. Hollow grinds and ergos make cutting pleasant. Don't know if applies to chopping

Early Benchrogorov. Dertnick circa 2005-6
Yes its a real Shirogorov.. and only recently did they stop producing the Tarbargan and 110 which are also axis lock.

There are also "Spydergorovs"-- circular holes or oval holes depending on what one likes




谁 copy 谁,乌龟 copy 铁锤
I don't know exactly if they copied/infringed on IPR from a legal standpoint, but from an ethical standpoint, that was certainly copying and 'unethical. Two wrongs do not make a right.

It's good, for it's price, as almost comparable American-made custom titanium flashlights will easily set you back 4 to 5 hundreds bucks.
Mine less than a hundred bucks with shipping, and the price go all the way to $159 with 9 tritium vials installed on the head.
Quite powerful, will easily hit 2500 lumens on turbo.
Mine is using Nichia 219C leds, so the neutral white tint is very pleasing to the eyes, unlike those cool white bluish tint like on some Ah Beng's HID car
I want one to replace my surefire. Help uncle vespa?
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Old 10-03-2016, 07:11 PM   #8965
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I want one to replace my surefire. Help uncle vespa?
Surefire oldie, but goodie.
Still have SF E2e which I bought from Sheares back in 2003.

If you don't like to use Li-Ion cell and charger, not really recommended to use this light as very picky with battery
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Old 10-03-2016, 07:12 PM   #8966
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And Benchmade and ZT can openly make Shirogorov-inspired designs?
Which designs are these? I'm not aware of Benchmade and ZT copying or infringing Shirogorov but it would be interesting to see. However, two wrongs do not make a right. IF they're copying then they're stealing as well. I know that Benchmade stole the Spyderco hole TM from Spyderco - it was settled in a non-legal fashion but it showed the moral standing of Les De Asis. Sal Glesser on the other hand, has shown that he is a more ethical man. Tony Marfione also showed that he was unethical by ripping off ZT's 0777 when he produced the Matrix - my respect for him dropped several more notches (apart from his poor customer service).

Conducting business ethically isn't easy. But it's doable. It does come at a price, and with a substantial sacrifice.
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Old 10-03-2016, 07:13 PM   #8967
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Surefire oldie, but goodie.
Still have SF E2e which I bought from Sheares back in 2003.

If you don't like to use Li-Ion cell and charger, not really recommended to use this light as very picky with battery
Ah, the charger....to be honest, uncle Vespa doesn't need another light, just like he doesn't need another knife ...it does look nice, something like a McGizmo.
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Old 10-03-2016, 07:46 PM   #8968
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Ah, the charger....to be honest, uncle Vespa doesn't need another light, just like he doesn't need another knife ...it does look nice, something like a McGizmo.
1/4 the price of McGizmo, or 1/5 of Jeff Hanko.
At least this China-light is his own design and he acknowledged and thanked the contribution of others in his thread at BLF.
Even in the world of flashlight, many China makers simply rip-off other well known designs or blatantly lie about the specs or the LED used in their lights, just like those Aliexpress or DHgate sellers labelled their blades as S35VN, D2 steel when they are infact 3crMov
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Old 10-03-2016, 07:48 PM   #8969
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Which designs are these? I'm not aware of Benchmade and ZT copying or infringing Shirogorov but it would be interesting to see.
ZT0454 and ZT0452 come to mind. Notice i never said that they 'copied' the Shiro, but that it was inspired by it.

The Benchmade 710 also has some similarities to a Shiro.

Of course, there also exists the possibility that my claim may be completely wrong.
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Old 10-03-2016, 07:52 PM   #8970
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just like those Aliexpress or DHgate sellers labelled their blades as S35VN, D2 steel when they are infact 3crMov
Yah...it's actually quite amusing to see a socalled 440c blade sold for $8.

One thing i learnt when browsing Ali or Dhgate is to completely disregard every single line in the description
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