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Air conditioning - Any recommendations please??

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Old 26-04-2009, 12:04 PM   #226
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Ok, after aircon installed for 6 months... need servicing...
Mine are system 2 but only main usage on the master room.
Common room think only use less then 5 time since installed.
The common room FC look clean but master room quite dusty..
Can get the contractor just to service 1 FC for my master room?
Any good service/price contractor recommendation?
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Old 02-05-2009, 02:31 AM   #227
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After reading the posts here I went with Hong Tar to do my aircon install due to all the positive comments on them.

So far I have been really disappointed by their service.

The only things they did good were

1) Showing the materials were the specs you had purchased
2) Laying the pipes

Stuff they have done badly...

1) Installing the fan coil (not enough gas, not tested properly)
2) Customer service (not returning calls, not arranging follow up appointments, avoiding answering questions and 'sing song')
3) Possibly under quoted the BTU (fujitsu claim this is the cause of the issue)
4) Explaining the difference between inverter and non inverter (just said saves electric as the compressor doesn't run on full power, after install they claim have to run fan coils on high power, takes a longer time to cool a room than non inverter)
5) Made what appears to be false statements (Inverter aircon has to run on high fan speed which fujistu disagree with, also checked with friends with inverter systems and they say low is fine. They will test a system for 3 hours to make sure no leaks but only tested for a short time to see if the fan coil blows out cold air)
6) Wasting our time (saying no need to attend an appointment with the fujitsu service guys, then saying fujitsu didn't do the right tests so 2nd appointment needed where Hong Tar will also attend)

Feeling very at them.

If anyone is interested the long story is below so you can make your own judgments....

They recommended a 9K BTU in both the bedrooms and 18K in the living room and suggested we go with either Fujitsu or MHI Inverter system 3. We went with fujitsu as it has a slightly shorter size fan coil and would fit better on the beam.

They came and did the piping without any issues then came and installed the fan coils. They then tested for 15-30mins (the sales person told me they would test for 3 hours) told my wife the fan coil is getting cold so is ok and asked for the money then left.

When I came home to test it and see what it was like. On high fan speed 18 degrees the master bedroom(3x4.4 meter room) took 1 hour to get cool, but still not near 'aircon cold' it still also felt humid in the room especially on the side furthest from the aircon. The living room after 2 hours was even worse only the area 2 meter around the fan coil was cool the rest of the room was very hot and humid still. I stay in a 3 room point block HDB , the rooms are not that big (but funny layout for living/dining & kitchen) In 8 years in Singapore I have never had to use aircon on anything more than low speed.

Called them up and asked them to send people down again, they told us it was likely due to 'Singapore has been hot recently!' and that they will get back to us. They never did, it took 4 phone calls and asking to speak to a manager to get someone to come and check the installation. At first they told us it would be 3-4 days before someone can come. Had to get angry and push for someone to come at the end of the day as they didn't test properly during the install. Still had to phone back to chase them to get the confirmation.

The same guys who installed it came down that evening and said gas pressure was on the low range. They topped it up and the fan coils did seam a bit more cooler but still didn't cool the rooms fully.

When I asked why it was this bad on high power, they told us that inverter aircon is like that and you have to use high power all the time. They also said it will take a lot longer to cool a room than a non inverter system. If this is true and they had made this clear when I was buying it I would have never picked a inverter system as it would keep me awake a night and be to loud when watching TV. If it's hot in the night and you cant sleep you wouldn't want to wait an hour for it to cool the room to a comfortable sleeping temperature.

They agreed it didn't seam right that it wasn't cooling the rooms and said they will arrange for fujitsu to come and check.

We ask if they could also be present when Fujitsu come but they insisted there was no need.

Fujitsu came and did some tests (checked gas and fan coil, off fan coil and room temp) and said everything is fine, fan coil is cold enough, pressure is right, air flow normal. I asked them why is it this bad on high power and is it true what Hong Tar said about inverter has to be on high all the time. They said this was not true and can be used on any speed, they said it was not enough BTU for the room space. (but wouldn't write this on the report when I asked)

We went back to Hong Tar office and asked to speak to a manager, a guy came out and each time I asked him a question he would 'sing song', talk over me when I started to speak and not give direct answers. He push the blame back to fujitsu and said they didn't test properly and that they need to plug in a computer to test. He said he will arrange a 2nd visit where Hong Tar will also attend (couldn't they have done this when we asked the first time and not waste my leave again!) they would not commit to a date for the next visit, saying it also depends on fujitsu and wouldn't give a clear answer on what options were available if they had under quoted the BTU. To give them credit they did say that if fujistu system is working correctly they will replace it with a different system. I asked 'if fujitsu system is working isn't there a risk they worked out the BTU wrong (especially in the living room with the funny layout) and the other system will make no difference' They responded with 'we would not get it wrong as we install 100s of aircon' & some aircons brands are not good for Singapore weather (if fujitsu is one of those why recommend to us!!)

Thursday they never called to confirm that the 2nd appointment has been made. We now have to go chase them again.

For a company that is meant to be good, I am really surprised at how bad their service has been if you face a problem.

Will post a update if they resolve the issue and if their level of service improves...
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Old 02-05-2009, 03:02 PM   #228
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Wow simmo2741, i was about to go to Hong Tar today to get the MHI Inverter system-2.
Though they're more expensive than Best Tech, i thought it's worth it.
Think i'd postpone for about a week. I'm looking forward to your update.
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Old 02-05-2009, 03:20 PM   #229
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I'm getting a Mit Electric Starmex MXY-2A23VA system 4 multisplit.

Considering either Gain city or Best Tech.

9+9+9+18 config,

2 rooms rented out so most of the time will be turned on and masterbed room used by me. since it's an inverter I might as well turn it on since the other two is on most of the time when my tenant is around at night. My old 8 year daikin inverter pcb burn already.
Hi Repsol,
Some people mention Inverter aircons take longer time to cool rooms.
Does yours take a while to cool the room?
The room where u use 9000 btu, is the area bigger than 12 sqm?
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Old 02-05-2009, 11:35 PM   #230
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after reading 5 pages.. which place is highly recommended?
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Old 04-05-2009, 01:34 AM   #231
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anyone bought/using those portable aircon units sold in carrefour? I'm not a fussy person..at home i usually set 26deg for my multispplit wall mounted unit and its gd enough for me. i heard the portable ones are noisy + barely cool?
i dun mind leaving it on the wholeday also because i stay in uni hall
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Old 04-05-2009, 10:02 PM   #232
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Exclamation

anyone bought/using those portable aircon units sold in carrefour? I'm not a fussy person..at home i usually set 26deg for my multispplit wall mounted unit and its gd enough for me. i heard the portable ones are noisy + barely cool?
i dun mind leaving it on the wholeday also because i stay in uni hall
I'm not sure if we're talking about the same type of portable aircon...
but back in uni, i used this type with a drawer where u can put in ice. It's kinda cool with the ice. But of course, it doesn't take long until the ice melts.. and it's back to being just a fan.

I could only feel the cold air when i put the aircon close to me. But having the fan blow directly to me felt kinda weird after a while. So i ditched it. hehe
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Old 05-05-2009, 02:03 AM   #233
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The Saga with Hong Tar continues... I have a questions at the end of it if anyone wants to skip the long story and just offer some advise on a different system you don't have to read my rant.

*********************************

Saturday morning we called them up to see if the appointment was made... Told they will check and get back to us, no one did. Took another 4 calls and still surprise surprise they haven't arranged anything. The person we spoke to before who said he would sort it out for us (Sales Manager) has gone away for the long weekend and will not be back until Tuesday.

Asked to speak to that persons boss, was told there wasn't one, asked for the owner and told that was the sales manager and that there was no one who could help us. (Really unbelievable!! sales manager = owner. Wouldn't you call yourself the CEO/Director if you were really the owner) Told they will try to contact someone then call us back. No one did.

Called them back and told them we wanted the last payment back as they haven't provided a good enough aircon system for the place and that they are not taking any responsibility to resolve the issue. They kept telling us they can't do anything until Tuesday! & fujitsu would be closed until Monday so no appointment can be made.

Went down the shop to be pushy and demand someone sort it out and to request to speak with the owner. (we were told over the phone that there was no point coming down as they will still not help us or be able to return the money)

When we got there they had suddenly got their butts in gear and arranged an appointment with fujitsu for Monday 3-5pm. They told us Fujitsu will send down the Sales Manager & technicians to do the full tests (using a computer) and Hong Tar's engineers will also attend. They also agreed that the engineers will bring a check to return the last payment. Informed the lady serving us that it needs to be fixed by 8th Feb as all our furniture is arriving then and if they need to replace the system we will need to redo the renovation work/box up before the furniture arrives. They committed to providing a solution for us at the end of the Monday.

We walked over to IMM to check out the aircon shops to see if they have any demo sets, one shop had a demo of an older 9K Btu fujitsu model we turn it on and at a medium speed it had a stronger stength wind/airflow than the 18K Btu in our living room on high power. They showed us the specs and on paper it should be less powerful than a new 9 Btu model in our bedrooms. Really makes me think there is a problem with the amount of air coming out of our system.

Monday 1pm Hong Tar called and said engineers will arrive at 2pm & Fujitsu will arrive at 2:30pm. Hong Tar guys arrive on time & turned the aircon on then sat down and waited for fujitsu. Fujitsu arrive at 3:45pm Only person that shows up is the Sales Manager, he walks in feels the aircon by the fans and says all ok no problem!!! so annoyed!! walk away from the fan coil and it is still hot & humid you fool!! both wife and myself took leave for some guy to come and test it with his hand after it has been cooling a room for 1.5 hours!! We could have told him it was blowing out cold air, we want to know why is it not cooling our apartment adequately.

Phoned up Hong Tar and got told they will call us back. Wife got very angry tried calling the Hong Tar sales manager's handphone that he previous gave us, it was finally switched on and he answered, she went mad at him, why is her time being wasted again (she has a problem at work that needs to be fixed so shouldn't have really been taking leave), why are no tests being done, why are you not taking ownership of it like you told us you would before you went away. etc He told her he will find out what was happening then get back to her (he never did and never answered his phone for the rest of the day. So irresponsible if you are to believe he is meant to be the owner!!)

Spent the next hour arguing with the Fujitsu Sales guy, explaining what we did at IMM and why is an old 9K btu stronger than our new 18Kbtu. We get nonsense from him like, can't compare 9K with 18K have to compare 18K with 18K! He went off and made some phone calls and came back and said fujitsu can only do a test on Wednesday and they will need to test for 3-4 days.

The original Hong Tar lady finally called back and we ask why wasn't this all arranged before, how can they commit to providing a solution end of day Monday when fujistu need 3-4 days to test and why did they tell us more tests would be done today when nothing was planned by fujitsu. She kept saying have to test so no option, told her there is no way I could take 4 days leave for this and it would cause a problem with the furniture arriving & any possible reno work that needs to be redone. Reminded her that she had committed a solution to me today and that I would like one with in 30mins (5:30pm) (As they have already wasted another afternoon of our leave really do not want anymore of my time wasted)

Fujitsu guy then started saying the aircon was positioned in the wrong location (if it is why did Hong Tar advise the current locations)

red is current location, blue is fujitsu recommended location. Grey is the area being cooled to an ok level after 1-2 hours.



I could agree on the bedroom and understand why technically it might be better but wife doesn't want it blowing on the bed, and her view is it's only 3x4m room so should be cooling if the aircon was working properly.

For the living room, it seams a bit silly, it's an old flat with a low ceiling they want to mount it on a beam in the middle of the room between the living and dining pointing to the living room area. They also advise to boxup the beam to hide the trunking which would make it even lower. It wouldn't be facing the dining area at all. All you would really be doing is pointing it different so the 2 meter area that it currently cools is where you sit most of the time.

It got to 5:40pm and Hong Tar called, this time is was a different lady, (After checking with the engineers she turns out to be the 'lady boss')

She said there is nothing they can do so they will uninstall the system and take it back and return the price of the fan coil to us!!! They can't even come up with a solution!!

She said I have too much of a high expectation of what is cold and the fujitsu guy says his system is working correctly and there is no issue.

So frustrating, my wife, our contractor, friends that have popped by to take a look at the renovation work all agree that there is something not right with the aircon performance and their HDBs all cool within 15mins on low power.

I explained to her the test we did at IMM and how the air flow is alot less, reminded her that on the first visit her technicians also agreed it was not right to take so long to cool a room. (This visit they were saying it was an acceptable temp, today was cloudy and cooler than the previous day they tested, it took 1.5 hours on high power to get cold in the living room, and it was still hot and humid if you were not standing within the range of the blowing air. If you turned it to low power the living and master bedroom would start to heat up again) No additional tests had been done by Fujitsu to confirm the output of air was correct yet she was happy to take their word that it was working ok.

She then said well we will give you that fujitsu model/system you tested in IMM then if it doesn't work there would be nothing more they can do. Told her to not be stupid and I wasn't here to do her job and come up with a sensible solution. They are the experts and should be able to make a judgment on what is the best options. I got a "we have already sold you our best solution and it isn't good enough for you"

In the end she called back and said upgrade to a MHI inverter system 4 compressor, put 9BTU in the study/small bedroom, 12BTU in the master bedroom and 24BTU in the living room and top up the difference of $800. There will be more cost if they relocate the fan coils to fujitsu's recommended positions due to piping and they will let us know that cost later. (Plus additional boxup cost by the contractor and redo current box up if they change that piping)

The most annoying thing that I have found from dealing with them has been the lack of service as it just frustrates you more and more.

1) When ever you try to talk they try to cut you off and talk over you, you then just end up raising your voice and have to shout firmly to get your point across, which makes you more angry and frustrated.

2) They will check and call you back..... Then never call you back. It just seams like a tactic to get you off the phone.

3) Time wasted with appointments where nothing will be tested.


********************************************************

I read a page or so back in this thread thexenomorph mentioned his MHI Inverter isn't that cold. If they are going to replace the system and install a more powerful one, what brands would people recommend?
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Old 05-05-2009, 11:50 AM   #234
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Wonder how big is your living room. 18k btu..so far used with my starmex...not bad lei....
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Old 05-05-2009, 05:49 PM   #235
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yo simmo2741,

just wanna share my experience.

i'm currently using a 4-year-old Fujitsu AOY36VMNM4 (36k BTU invertor compressor) with 4x 9k BTU FCUs for 3 bedrooms and 1 living rm (small HDB one).

I usually set it at 25C or 24C (hot day/nite), any lower than that I'll wake up sneezing and catching a cold.

I tried to read thru' your wall of text but i couldn't find out what's your compressor BTU?

Can you try this? Just power up the air-con for just 1 room (preferrably bedrm) and see if it's cooler. If so, then perhaps your compressor is too weak.

Before I bought my air-con i read up and based on some (forgot where liao) calculation, a small HDB bedroom only needs 6k BTU to cool! But then, i'll take that with a pinch of salt coz the calculation is based on conditions in temperate countries. So I thought 9k BTU should be sufficient, not unless your bedroom is very large.
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Old 05-05-2009, 07:03 PM   #236
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Repsol_2 - approx 3m X 7m the dining entrance to the kitchen is closed off with a door but the passage to the bedrooms & toilet opens to the kitchen so has nothing to stop the air escaping. Maybe that is why 18K BTU isn't enough?

thesingingbard - my compressor is the new system 3 model AOYA24LAT3 (spec say 23K-29KBtu)

I have tried running only the master bedroom (3M x 4M room) it took 45mins to get cool on high power 18C, the right side of the room still only gets mildly cool & is slightly humid. If I turn to low the room starts to warm up.
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Old 05-05-2009, 09:08 PM   #237
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anyone cna intro me the brand and model for a system 3, preferrably those energy saver? pls advise me the cost and where to buy pls... cos i need to replace mine for using 10 years riaos... keep on servicing it also ex lor...
thanks...
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Old 06-05-2009, 07:46 PM   #238
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thesingingbard - my compressor is the new system 3 model AOYA24LAT3 (spec say 23K-29KBtu)

I have tried running only the master bedroom (3M x 4M room) it took 45mins to get cool on high power 18C, the right side of the room still only gets mildly cool & is slightly humid. If I turn to low the room starts to warm up.
hm... then indeed it is something wrong, unless you've a ceiling of >5m, 9k BTU should be sufficient. When you turn on the air-con, can you touch the metallic fins (careful! they're sharp! ) on the FCU, and see if indeed it is cold?

If it gets cold fast, that means air-con is okay and installed properly. If so, then set your fan-speed to high so that cold air would circulate the room faster.

If it doesn't get cold, or get cold slowly... then should be compressor issue bah... maybe pipe thermistor is faulty, not enough refrigerant (aka gas), or wrong refrigerant used (cannot be so kuku bah!).

Either way, I'm sorry for your predicament. Personally, i'd give up and hire another contractor or firm to come and take a look at it.

Btw, just thought of something... check your trunking/piping along the way... are they sweating? i.e. condensation along the trunking? If so, insulation no good... a lot of cold wasted along the pipe leading to the room.
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Old 06-05-2009, 10:02 PM   #239
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I'm not sure if we're talking about the same type of portable aircon...
but back in uni, i used this type with a drawer where u can put in ice. It's kinda cool with the ice. But of course, it doesn't take long until the ice melts.. and it's back to being just a fan.

I could only feel the cold air when i put the aircon close to me. But having the fan blow directly to me felt kinda weird after a while. So i ditched it. hehe
oh no i think what you're referring to is an air cooler my friend. i'm considering buying a bona fide, real portable aircon to put in my nus dorm. its the kind where it comes with an exhaust hose for you to place through the window.



uni hall is also not very big, about 9 sq meters of floorspace.
i know its not as cold as a wall mounted one and its quite noisy too..but heck i dont need to foot the electric bills so its ok with me
anyone have any experience with it?
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Old 06-05-2009, 11:45 PM   #240
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They changed to MHI today.

The living is much better on with 24 BTU unit it gets to a better temperature.

Bedrooms are worse though the MHI seams to have more air coming out but not as cold as the fujitsu, The centre of the fan coil is cold but the air at the sides isn't. It also has a buzz caused by the fan motor. It's at a really annoying pitch that would drive you crazy whilst trying to get to sleep. thexenomorph mentioned the same thing about MHI having the noise.

Hong Tar called MHI about the buzz, and they have another motor they can install if customers complain about it. Now have to wait for MHI to come and change the motor.

Strange that Hong Tar would recommend this brand when it seams worse for the smaller units.
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