Air conditioning - Any recommendations please??

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orangeman

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Hi, did a back search but cannot find you mentioning the brand and model of the system 4 that you intend to buy. This is because, different models have different configuration constrains. It is good if you can provide them.

Hi dachee bro, yes you are right have not really mentioned any models outright , currently looking at the proven starmex old models system 4 (but can't decide the BTU needed). Another option is Panasonic which is not really recommended here. Any advise that can sway me away to a particular model and BTU? ( always will be living room and MBR on most of the days)
 

dachee

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Copy and paste from a fb ad.

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Hi,

Did some quick checks on Radiant cooling and there are issues and debates on its effectiveness as well as problems.

In general, radiant cooling is done by cooling a surface so that that surface is about to adsorb the radiant heat from other bodies or other objects.

As we know from our primary school science, heat is transferred by convection, conduction and radiation. Both convection and conduction would need a medium but not radiation. For example, the heat from the sun heats up the earth by radiation by going through the outer space which has no medium.

However, radiant cooling may have problem in places that are humid as radiation does little to the humidity in the air. For example the heat from the sun is unable to heat up the cloud in the sky. So a body can feel cool through heat transfer by radiation but not the air.

However, within an environment, heat is transferred best in a complex and "auto-adjusted" way, with a combination of conduction, convection and radiation. Whichever method that is most efficient will dominate the process.

In short, radiant cooling would be more suitable for countries that has low humidity environment. Another consideration is the blocking of radiant heat transfer by objects. For example, standing outside under the sun, you will feel hotter than in a shade. The is because radiation can be block, so if you are sitting with your legs under the table, your leg may feel warmer as radiant heat from your legs is not transferred to the cooler surface, which for this air conditioner is the ceiling.

Above are my opinion and hope that they are useful.
 
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terumo

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To carlos83,

Currently most of the models available are invertor model.

Daikin Smile Series is a system 4 outdoor, you can just install as a system 1 and add additional blower units in the future (provided the model is still available, usually a model production lifespan is 5-7 years)
 

dachee

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hi bros...anyone got contact for reliable aircon installation service + cleaning services ?

does the uncle auntie or ah yi does installation service?

thanks bros!!

The problem is how does a customer know whether an installer is a reliable one? In my opinion, a customer will only know that an installer is reliable only when he can assess the installer. The customer need not be trained but by ensuring that the following are carried out by the installer, he is assured that the installation is reliable.

1. Ensure that the system is evacuated for at least 15 mins with a suction pump. Some installer will do purging instead of evacuation. This is not acceptable.

2. After the 15 mins, the installer will shut the manifold gauge, than turned off the pump. He should than wait for a few minutes to see if the suction pressure increases. This is to check for any leakage in the piping. You can record the gauge reading by taking a photo, and comparing it later to see that the pressure does not increase. If there is any increase in pressure, it would mean that there is a leak in the piping. The installer would then have to find out where is leaking, repair it and redo the evacuation before he continues to release the gas and charging the system.

3. Look for any opened insulation. All piping should be fully concealed within the insulation. You should not be able to see the copper pipes at all.

4. Look for insulation that are meeting end to end and check that they are glued together and not just touching each other.

5. Check to see that each copper pipe is insulated separately. There should not be 2 pipes within one insulation, except those pipes that come from the manufacturer and within the FCU.

6. Check that any gaps between the holes in the walls and insulation pipes / wires are completely sealed up even when this holes are within the conduit.

7. Ask the installer to pour some water into the water collection tray in the FCU to see that all water flow out freely into the drain pipe.

8. Make sure that the installer insulate the drain pipe too.

9. Check that all your condenser (ie the outdoor unit) are fasten to the bracket or flooring.

10. Listen to the condenser for any abnormal noise/sound and vibration. Have the installer rectify the noise/sound if there are.

11. When the system is fully charged, take a photo of the suction gauge pressure reading for reference. The suction pressure should be closed to 120 psi for R-410A gas.

12. With the system running, check the service valve ( the place that the manifold hose is attached to the condenser) with soap water for leak. Leaking can be confirmed when bubbles form around the valves.

Anyone who have knowledge may wish to add more to the above list.

The above are my opinion and hope that they are useful.
 

dachee

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Was thinking to get star mex.. But now with this panasonic, probably wait and see.. Since have air purifier which will be good during hazy period..

Hi, understand from the Mitsubishi catalogue that the StarMEX systems (depending on the model) have the following:

1. Anti-Allergy Enzyme Filter
2. Electrostatic Anti-allergy Enzyme Filter
3. Catechin Plus Pre-Filter
4. Double Air Cleaning Filter
5. Nano Platinum Filter
6. Plasma Quad

Hope that the above are useful.
 

dachee

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anyone on europace aircon ?

they claim using Mitsubishi engine/motor not sure of it... is it reliable ?

Hi, does it have similar performance and features? Air conditioner is one product that you need to look at long term consideration as it will be frequently used and a poor selection may be costly in future.
 

dachee

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Hello.

I am thinking of getting aircon for my 5rm flat and would need some help here.
Currently only 2 of us and aircon will only be used in MBR during hot weather or haze. Usually we sleep with just fan and windows open.

Wonder if I need inverter model or non inverter model will be good enough?

Secondly, i was wondering if it is possible to just install a system 1 to my MBR and in the future when family size increases we just add another set of aircon for the 2 common bedrooms?

I understand the Daikin Smile series allow expansion by just adding FCU but wondering if there will be complication when it comes to expansion?

Or maybe install a system 1 and in the future add another outdoor unit for 2 common rooms?

Appreciate your advices. Thanks!

Hi,

1. It will be good to have an inverter system as it provides better control of the environment in the room as well as being more efficient. It is also much quieter.

Inverter system are now common. So it is not that costly to have it to enjoy its benefit.

2. Air conditioner technology and features improves and changes frequently with new research done. In addition, model pairing between condenser and FCU may limit future availability, though it is possible to use one FCU in a system 4 and connect 3 FCU later. But why pay a high price for a high capacity unit when you only need 1/4 of it?

It depends on the available outdoor space as well as when you need the other FCUs and the installation cost.

Two single splits may be good if the chance of having 4 is not going to happen. In such a case, you may wish to install one first but if the second unit would likely be needed in the near future, then you need to weigh the installation cost vs the lost of warranty as the second unit is unlikely to be used frequently at the beginning. Meaning you may only use it once a month or even not at all and by the time you start to use it, the one year warranty is over and you need to pay for any problem encountered.

In the event that you would like to have 4 FCUs or not sure yet, then having two system 2 would be appropriate if there is insufficient outdoor space to take 4 single split or any combination that ended with 3 condensers (meaning that you have only sufficient outdoor space for 2 condensers). So you can have one system 2 with one FCU or with 2 FCUs first. And add another system 2 in future. Again, you need to weigh the lost of warranty for units that you do not use. And not forgetting that there are new technology as well as styling each pasting year.

The above are my opinion and hope that they are useful.
 

miketan_wh

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Hi bros,

Am looking for a system 2 for 2 bedrooms. Ceiling is approx 2.4m.

Any brands that is within 2k budget and any resellers to recommend?

First timer here. Thanks in advance for any advice!
 

dachee

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Hi dachee bro, yes you are right have not really mentioned any models outright , currently looking at the proven starmex old models system 4 (but can't decide the BTU needed). Another option is Panasonic which is not really recommended here. Any advise that can sway me away to a particular model and BTU? ( always will be living room and MBR on most of the days)

Hi,

Do you really need a system 4 or two system 2? Though both indicate that they can have similar FCUs'capacity, they are not when all the FCUs are running at the same time. As mentioned in past posting, system 2 can provide full capacity for each of its FCUs (so two system 2 can provide full capacity for 4 FCUs) but system 4 cannot provide full capacity of its 4 FCUs when running together unless you up-size it to the 38VA with capacity of 7.5 kW instead of the 28VA with 6 kW.

However, your 4 FCUs locations are inclusive of the living room which you will be using most of the day, but not when you go to bed. Depending on the number of bdrms that you will be running the air conditioner at any one time and the temperature that you would be setting, the 28VA may be suitable.

Mitsubishi Electric has a technical support team that you can consult at their Alexandra Road office. Bring your house floor layout to ask them on the BTU required for your living room. In my previous post, I mentioned that 9k BTU is sufficient.

Above are my opinion and hope that they are useful.
 

dachee

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Hi bros,

Am looking for a system 2 for 2 bedrooms. Ceiling is approx 2.4m.

Any brands that is within 2k budget and any resellers to recommend?

First timer here. Thanks in advance for any advice!

Hi,

There are some system 2 that are under $2k including installation for HDB. However, these units are normally 2 ticks with higher energy consumption. There are some newer versions that are slightly more expensive by $200 to $500 more but they are newer versions as well as with lesser energy consumption of 4 and 5 ticks. In long term, the cost in energy saving will off-set the cost of the more expensive models.

There are sellers of reconditioned units but most are old models with higher energy consumption. In addition, their warranty may not be the same as new units and maintenance cost may be higher. The cost of installing a new units is no different from that of reconditioned units which is a large percentage of the total cost of buying an air conditioner.

So 2 ticks units or reconditioned units may in long term cost more than new units with 4 or 5 ticks. In the current market, the 4 and 5 ticks are very close, almost not different in energy saving.

The above are my opinion and hope they are helpful.
 

carlos83

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Hi,

1. It will be good to have an inverter system as it provides better control of the environment in the room as well as being more efficient. It is also much quieter.

Inverter system are now common. So it is not that costly to have it to enjoy its benefit.

2. Air conditioner technology and features improves and changes frequently with new research done. In addition, model pairing between condenser and FCU may limit future availability, though it is possible to use one FCU in a system 4 and connect 3 FCU later. But why pay a high price for a high capacity unit when you only need 1/4 of it?

It depends on the available outdoor space as well as when you need the other FCUs and the installation cost.

Two single splits may be good if the chance of having 4 is not going to happen. In such a case, you may wish to install one first but if the second unit would likely be needed in the near future, then you need to weigh the installation cost vs the lost of warranty as the second unit is unlikely to be used frequently at the beginning. Meaning you may only use it once a month or even not at all and by the time you start to use it, the one year warranty is over and you need to pay for any problem encountered.

In the event that you would like to have 4 FCUs or not sure yet, then having two system 2 would be appropriate if there is insufficient outdoor space to take 4 single split or any combination that ended with 3 condensers (meaning that you have only sufficient outdoor space for 2 condensers). So you can have one system 2 with one FCU or with 2 FCUs first. And add another system 2 in future. Again, you need to weigh the lost of warranty for units that you do not use. And not forgetting that there are new technology as well as styling each pasting year.

The above are my opinion and hope that they are useful.

Thank you dachee!
I will think about the options. If I go the route of having a system 1, in the future when I add another condenser, will it require hacking to get the piping thru again? Or is it possible to lay all the pipes first but seal the ends for future use?
Sorry for asking noob questions..
 

carlos83

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To carlos83,

Currently most of the models available are invertor model.

Daikin Smile Series is a system 4 outdoor, you can just install as a system 1 and add additional blower units in the future (provided the model is still available, usually a model production lifespan is 5-7 years)

Thank you terumo!
I asked another questions below regarding piping. If you have any advice, please share.
 

miketan_wh

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Hi,

There are some system 2 that are under $2k including installation for HDB. However, these units are normally 2 ticks with higher energy consumption. There are some newer versions that are slightly more expensive by $200 to $500 more but they are newer versions as well as with lesser energy consumption of 4 and 5 ticks. In long term, the cost in energy saving will off-set the cost of the more expensive models.

There are sellers of reconditioned units but most are old models with higher energy consumption. In addition, their warranty may not be the same as new units and maintenance cost may be higher. The cost of installing a new units is no different from that of reconditioned units which is a large percentage of the total cost of buying an air conditioner.

So 2 ticks units or reconditioned units may in long term cost more than new units with 4 or 5 ticks. In the current market, the 4 and 5 ticks are very close, almost not different in energy saving.

The above are my opinion and hope they are helpful.

Thank you, indeed helpful.

May I know those models you have mentioned that are $200-500 more, but having better energy ratings?
 

dachee

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Thank you, indeed helpful.

May I know those models you have mentioned that are $200-500 more, but having better energy ratings?

Hi, Below are some models with 4 and 5 ticks. The prices are inclusive of installation and GST in HDB and standard materials. You may wish to do some search in the internet as these prices are not the best and model/brands are not limited to the following. You can also check the respective brands website for authorized dealers to call for quote as not all dealers have websites.

1. DAIKIN 3MKS50FSG SYSTEM 2 4 ticks $2,190
2. MIDEA SMKY-21-O-04 SYSTEM 2 4 ticks $2,236
3. MITSUBISHI STARMEX MXY-2G20VA 5 ticks $2,490
4. PANASONIC CU-2XS18RKZ SYSTEM 2 4 ticks $2,390
5. MITSUBISHI HEAVY SCM45ZJ-S SYSTEM 2 4 ticks $2,075
6. DAIKIN MKS65QVMG SYSTEM 2 5 ticks $2,630
7. York YCHMYC021 SYSTEM 2 4 ticks $2,090

Price and the number of ticks are not the only factors to consider in the selection of the air conditioner. You would need to compare the specification, features, configuration, support, warranty as well as the right installer.

From the internet, it seems that sellers are indicating that the top three brands (not in order of position) are Panasonic, Mitsubishi Electric (not Mitsubishi Heavy Industry) and Daikin.

Hope that the above are helpful.
 

dachee

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Thank you, indeed helpful.

May I know those models you have mentioned that are $200-500 more, but having better energy ratings?

Hi,

Some time using 2 single units with 4 ticks system instead of a system 2 can have a lower cost if your outdoor unit space is large enough to have two condensers.

For example: Each Mitsubishi MUYGE10VA with 4 tick is $990
Two units = $990X2 = $1980

Hope the above is helpful.
 

miketan_wh

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Hi,

Some time using 2 single units with 4 ticks system instead of a system 2 can have a lower cost if your outdoor unit space is large enough to have two condensers.

For example: Each Mitsubishi MUYGE10VA with 4 tick is $990
Two units = $990X2 = $1980

Hope the above is helpful.


Understood, don't think i have enough space for 2 condensers though. Thank you!
 

orangeman

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Hi guys,
Is today gain city sale quite a good buy?
Looking at starmex system 4. Most people recommend the old 2 ticks one right?
 

orangeman

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"Most people recommend" based on what may I know?

Hi bro dachee,

Based on 3 friends and relatives, keep tell me starmex cannot go wrong one. That's why I am here reading see if can get a recommended model for system 4 or to get a 3 +1
 
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