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Air conditioning - Any recommendations please??

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Old 04-05-2016, 04:16 PM   #7321
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需要 这么 detail mah?
"Occupational hazard" from the big Air Purifier / El Nino & Haze threads.


Another thing that i learnt from the AP thread is that different people = different needs and different budgets, different expectations also. Some people heck care about sound and power consumption, just want performance. Some want it to be decked out in features like WiFi-Cloud control. Some want the best brand money can buy while others are ok with China stuff.

Guess it's the same with aircon. For some, aircon need the best as they aircon the whole darn 156 sqm mansionette 24 x 2 over the weekend and 13hr nightly on weekdays.
For others, aircon is just for the peak hot nights. Else fan is ok. Others straddle the middle ground.

Anyway i was going through the bills, the cost of my non-inverter system-1 and system-2 plus installation is $1820 (installed by a Malaysian). Aeroflex 9mm tubing from what i can see, not sure about the details. Not fancy stuff.
For what it's worth ba.

Just went lazada, i think it's still low 3K range for a good inverter sys 3 set incld install.

But it was bought and installed in Jan 2010 so that's a 6.5 yr system.
Lastly, i am just damn glad that it isn't leaking or spoilt....coz current air-con pricings are absolutely crazy
Lately got colleague's Daikin stuff, 8 years leak @ FCU liao and could not turn on.
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Old 04-05-2016, 04:31 PM   #7322
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Where do you get 5-tick just $600 more than 2-tick?
Did some online "shopping"...

You mean a 5-tick system-3 aircon is $600 more than a 2-tick system-3 aircon is it? I found one Mitsu electric that's $800 difference. (shown below)...but i am using Mitsu 3A28 vs 4G28 which is $800 diff. A 4A28 vs 4G28 would be $600 diff.

4G28 is 5-ticks. There is also a 3G28. $3560 for both.
3A28 and 4A28 are 2-ticks. 2760 and 2980 prices respectively.

Tried to read more into the specs. Basically there are slight differences in the cooling for different room FCUs depending on the outdoor unit and indoor FCU, which determines the final price. Some people want to size the aircon to their rooms correctly.
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Old 04-05-2016, 04:43 PM   #7323
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Fwah...this is prob not the cheapest pricings around. Anyway, coolserve Mitsubishi electric system 2 plus a system 1 5-ticks inverter would cost 2.5k and 1.1k. 3.6k total. (if compared to my system "directly" though not totally fair coz mine is somewhat old and non-inverter 6.5 yrs @ 1.8k inclusive of installation)


Edit - ok, maybe it's fairer to compare current pricings : a 2 tick Mitsubishi Electric system-3 8.5k FCU is $2760 (3A28). 5-tick system-3 8.5k is $3560 (4G28). So just a few hundred dollars difference in price ($800).
So it's somewhat possible for a moderate 2-rooms nightly usage to recover $800 in 8-9 years. If it's $25 per room per month AC power usage with a 15% effciency diff, the savings would be ~ $630 for 7 years for 2 rooms nightly usage. So also possible for 7 years duration and $600 savings
Again, $25 monthly, = 5hrs of compressor at full tilt (9000 btu/hr thereabouts). Or 10hrs of compressor @ half tilt inverter operation (or 4500 btu/hr). I know i consume less than this, coz mine is non inverter and i know when is the compressor operating/blowing cold air and when it's not (fan only).

http://www.coolserve.com.sg/htmdocs/...isor.aspx?id=9

Prices really rocketed in the past 6 years huh? (anyway now that i remember, the airconditioners were paid for by my father in law last time as a housewarming gift, so not nice to ask for Inverter and the best etc, i couldn't even top up coz i am sure he wouldn't let us pay anything).

KNS, now you ask me to change 1 unit to Inverter 5 tick, i also sim tiah.
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Old 04-05-2016, 07:30 PM   #7324
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is it better to use G22 or G23 gas piping ? is it standard to use 16mm pvc piping ?
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Old 04-05-2016, 08:24 PM   #7325
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A lot of assumptions about cost savings from 5 vs 2 tick. Use this calculator. There's another nea link, can't find it now. But it's useful.

There's been much talk about the mitsubishi 5 tick being lousier (lower powered) than the 2 tick because it's 6.6 kW vs 7.52 kW. Find it hard to believe the japanese mitsubishi engineers are as incompetent as people seem to suggest. I doubt it's that simple. Could very well be the 5 tick having a more efficient design and cooling just as well, but using less power.

Assuming air con lasts for 7 years with heavy usage (8 hours daily), system 4 mitsubishi 5 tick (4G28) vs 2 tick (4A28). 5 tick saves $3000


Do your own calculations here:
http://www.e2singapore.gov.sg/Househ...alculator.aspx

More info here:
http://www.e2singapore.gov.sg/Househ...alculator.aspx

If you use the air con for at least 8 hours daily, 5 ticks will surely save you a ton of money across the years.

I doubt many will on all aircon with that amount of load every for 7 to 8 hours. Hence, the savings shown are not as representative as it should be.
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Old 04-05-2016, 09:58 PM   #7326
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The calculator is a good easy tool, but it's based on a pretty huge usage pattern, probably a temperature set pretty low or the heat load is high. Heat load high can come from number of pax in the room, high number of electrical appliances, or the walls/floors suck in insulation. (I know some old resale units are really very lossy )


I just quote it and DIY some calculations, better to see it from another angle in terms of efficiency percentage which translates to kWh savings per month/year/7 years.


Panasonic CU-PS12NKZ 2 ticks.
Cooling capacity 4kW. Amps draw 4.2A

Panasonic CU-XS12RKZ 4 ticks
Cooling capacity same 4kW. Amps draw 3.7A

I didn't manage to find 5 ticks for Panasonics.
Both are inverters.

Difference = 13% in electrical consumption between 2 and 4 ticks

If your monthly aircon bill for this 12k FCU is $70 (4-ticks), then it's $79 for the 4-ticks, for the aircon component with a 13% difference. (that's a decent amt of usage - i use much less). Or 108 yearly. Or 756 for 7 years. That is one room with 12k btu/hr FCU (pretty powerful....maybe big MBR)



I use another model that's 9000 btu/hr and folks would be able to relate better with a 9k FCU.

Panasonic CU-XS9RKZ 4 ticks
3.4kW cooling. 2.7A. 840W full load.
(3.2kW cooling needs about 2.55A?)

Panasonic CU-PS9NKZ 2 ticks
3.2kW cooling. 3.3 amps

29% difference between 2 and 4 ticks in this scenario.


If your monthly aircon bill for this 1 room is $60 thereabouts for the 4-ticks, expect $77 for the 2 ticks 9k FCU. $204 diff per year, 1428 diff per 7 years.


How much is $60 worth of electricity? It is 0.1768/kWh now, add 7% gst and it's $0.1892/kWh. $60 is 317kWh, 4-ticks, or 317/30 = 10.56 kWh per day.
The 4-tick system just manages 840W full load, 8hrs usage is just 6.72kWh daily. 3.4kW cooling capacity, or 10,900 btu/hr system.
To get 10.56kWh daily usage so as to achieve that $60 electrical AC bill per room, the operation at full load non-stop would be 12.5 hrs daily



I do not think one can gun the darn 10,900 btu/hr aircon 12.5hrs @ full capacity in a BTO room without freezing to uncomfortable levels. ie set it at 16 deg C


In real life, the aircon usage, at least for me, is way lesser than what is shown by the .gov.sg calculator.
ie just go by percentages. Take a max of 30% (it could just be 13%. whatever). If your bill aircon bill is just $25 per room monthly and you have 2 rooms AC nightly, then it's a $50 AC bill montly.
30% diff is 15 dollars difference. It will be less if it's 13%
7 years = $1260 for these 2 aircon rooms.
(in my case, it's probably lower than even $1000 for 2 rooms over 7 years)

Not sure what is the price difference between the 4 or 5 and 2 ticks system though. But i guess it's less than $1,000 nowadays, last time it was way more i think. So i guess it still pays somewhat to go for the 4 or 5 ticks, all things being equal.
is Panasonic CU-XS9RKZ 4 ticks colder than the mitsubishi heavy industries SRK25ZMA 4 tick
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Old 04-05-2016, 10:08 PM   #7327
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May I know where to get the contact for this company?

Thanks in advance
I have no idea what Aircon is good. I know one thing for sure. The LG Artcool gave me nightmares. The blower thing got spoilt and took almost 3 months get new parts.

Now that i'm buying a resale unit, first thing i'm gonna do is to replace the old Aircon which look like from the 70's

Went to G*** C*** in IMM and was quoted as below. Don't know if this is a good price and if they are trustworthy.


System 3
Mitsubishi MXY-3G28VA 5 TICK
Indoor Unit - MSXY-FJ (2x9000 BTU + 1x12000 BTU)

S$ 3759


System 2
Mitsubishi MXY-3G28VA 5 TICK
Indoor Unit - MSXY-FJ (1x12000 BTU + 1x18000 BTU)

S$ 3159

1/2 inch copper G22 - S$300
Extended warranty 1+4 years System 3 - S$129
Extended warranty 1+4 years System 2 - S$99
50Ft Piping FOC per fan coil. Excess us 4.50/ft for 9K/12K BTU and 7.50/ft for 18K+ BTU

===========================================
Other Offer I received was as below:

Mitsubishi New Starmex system 2 - $3000

MXY3G28/MSXYFJ10/MSXYFJ18

Mitsubishi New Starmex system 3 - $3450

MXY3G28/MSXYFJ10 x 2 /MSXYFJ13

Standard piping materials without upgrade
1. 16mm pvc drainage pipe with 1/4 inch thickness armaflex insulation.
2. 23g copper pipe with 1/2 inch thickness Class “1” armaflex insulation.
3. Keystone/Sigma 3 core 40 & 70 wire.
4. Stainless steel bracket is additional $150 nett with installation if necessary.

Warranty
1. Compressor 5 year (Dealer warranty)
2. Other parts 1 year (Dealer warranty)
3. Workmanship 5 year (Installer warranty)
1st year to 5th year will be warranty piping and wiring but not included insulation sweating.
Insulation only warranty for 1st year.


April 2016 Package
** Free Site Survey
** Free 2 trip installation
** Free upgrade to G22 copper pipe (Thickness and Hardness gas piping)
** Free upgrade to Class “O” half inch Armaflex Insulation. (Fire protection quality)
** Free Unlimited piping length
** Free dismantle and disposal old set aircon
** One time ac-hoc general servicing with special rate for no units of install within 1 year- $15 per unit.
** One time ac-hoc chemical overhaul with special rate for no units of install within 2 year- 30% discount
per unit (Price different base on BTU)
** No hidden cost (Nett Price)
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Old 04-05-2016, 10:21 PM   #7328
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To chercm,
G22 is better as its thicker.
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Old 05-05-2016, 09:10 AM   #7329
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My Mitsubishi Starmax 5 tick aircon didn't last 6 months, broke down 6 times!! Always had to wait minimum of 1-2 weeks for repair. Now getting it removed. What a hassle with Mitsubishi. Was recommended wrong capacity and couldn't cool my apartment properly. I can't t recommend Mitsubishi Aircon at all but it was the quietest and most energy efficient in the time I had it... Since it barely worked
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Old 05-05-2016, 09:15 AM   #7330
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My Mitsubishi Starmax 5 tick aircon didn't last 6 months, broke down 6 times!! Always had to wait minimum of 1-2 weeks for repair. Now getting it removed. What a hassle with Mitsubishi. Was recommended wrong capacity and couldn't cool my apartment properly. I can't t recommend Mitsubishi Aircon at all but it was the quietest and most energy efficient in the time I had it... Since it barely worked
Keen to know more...
What company did the installation?
How big is your house?
What are the FCU unit u got?
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Old 05-05-2016, 09:26 AM   #7331
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My Mitsubishi Starmax 5 tick aircon didn't last 6 months, broke down 6 times!! Always had to wait minimum of 1-2 weeks for repair. Now getting it removed. What a hassle with Mitsubishi. Was recommended wrong capacity and couldn't cool my apartment properly. I can't t recommend Mitsubishi Aircon at all but it was the quietest and most energy efficient in the time I had it... Since it barely worked
Sorry to hear that...did the company went over to survey the house before recommending or you just told them what you needed?
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Old 05-05-2016, 10:09 AM   #7332
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Oh dear.. troubling to hear that. Any more people with problems with their 5 tick mitsubishi?
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Old 05-05-2016, 01:01 PM   #7333
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Look like you going for cooling power instead of compromise to cost for lower kW.

air con not cold, install for wat rite?

Haha.... I don't believe in all these figure Even if its from govt.
it just like our saving water projects they go mandate new water tap. In the end, we waste time waiting for water to flow out drop by drop.
I also noticed ice taken out from refrigerator with more tick will melt faster than those with less tick.
"Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me."
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Old 05-05-2016, 02:17 PM   #7334
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Hi to all air con gurus,

Have a couple of questions to ask.



Is it ok to size up from 9k to 13k btu for an old 5rm point block common room?



Does it really matter as it may cycle too much or that's not the case for inverter?



In terms of btu difference, other than higher btu fcu cooling a room faster, does it brings the room to a lower temperature? Eg, 9k btu manages to cool a room to 20 degrees and 13k btu cools a room to 18 degrees, both with 16 degrees preset.



Does an inverter only have 2 speeds part load and full load?



If only 1 unit is running from a system 3, and preset temperature has been attained, does it run part load or lower?



Hope someone can shed some light on my questions.
TIA!
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Old 05-05-2016, 05:13 PM   #7335
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Installed Mitsubishi 3G28 with 2x FJ10VE and 1 x FJ13VE in the bedrooms and MUY-GE24/MSY-GE24 in the living room last week.
Soft humming noise from the 3G28 compressor when running at full power, after rooms reached set temp., the noise is barely noticeable. Everything is cool, the indoor units are quiet and can cool the rooms fast, before 30 Deg C, after 10 mins, temp. dropped by 2 deg c. Default current limit is set at 8.5A can be changed by pushing 5th switch position on SW2 to off.

[IMG][/IMG]
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