HWZ Forums

Login Register FAQ Mark Forums Read

Air conditioning - Any recommendations please??

Like Tree884Likes
Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-09-2009, 12:08 PM   #841
High Supremacy Member
 
cannotliao's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 48,068
Gain city having aircon promo.
Got panasonic system 3 inverter - for $2786
Pay $120 to upgrade insulation to half inch.

GC giving $250 NTUC/SHELL/CHOICE vouchers.
Panasonic giving $100 NTUC vouchers.

Total price with better insulation = $2906 - $350 = $2556
saw this lobang at renotalk dot com
cannotliao is offline  
Old 03-09-2009, 02:40 PM   #842
Supremacy Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,073
hm... perhaps Chunliang was right afterall... but then... my old Fujitsu was using R22... anyhow, that's in the past! yhew!

Daikin eh? hm... I guess i'd try Daikin next.... hopefully over 10 years later.

with regards to performance, any significant diff betw R22 & R410a? i've read claims that R410a is more efficient as a refridgerant, what's your opinion?
Chunliang, any thoughts on this?
yup..r410a is more efficient. as previous post mention, drainage pipe hav to be insulated due to the extreme coldness after r410a came out. from wat i tink tat r410a is faster in changing from hot high pressure to cold low pressure, n when it arrived to evapourator(fcu), the temp is alot lower than r22. therefore it cools the room faster becos of lower temp ba.
*edit: tats y i was wondering inverter total btu is always higher than non-inverter for many brand/model. i mean multi split.

so if u were to compare non-inverter of r22 n r410a, r410a is efficient to r22.

but maintenance wise, r22 is better as terumo said.

correct me if there's wrong.

Since there is a possibility of terumo being an air-con contractor or in the air-con business, I am not sure whether there is any "conflict of interest" or "spoil the market" or "breach of any regulations" with revealing what my ID's air-con contractor has quoted me.

I received his quotation via e-mail. He qouted me a price with all these :
(1) Panas0nic Multi Split unit model : CU-3C20JKZ X 1,
(2) Panas0nic Model : CS-C9JKZW fan coils X 3,
quotation includes supply and installation charges, includes trunking, copper pipes, Thermosflex insulation CIs (3/4" with 3 years warranty)
(3) This quotation not includes power supply.

Can I ask what is meant by this "does not include power supply"?? What does he mean by the "power supply"??

Also, Thermosflex is better than Armaflex, right??

Sorry, almost forgot to mention that my air-con contractor SMS last night that I will get the NTUC vouchers.

Guess I will sign the quotation with him, since his offer is better than the other contractors, which I have asked to come take a look at my 4-room HDB.

If one is interested to know what price, do PM me. I don't wish to get into any form of trouble with revealing the price here.

And if you find it cheap and interested to install for your home, I can recommend the air-con contractor to you.

Sorry, terumo, don't mean to "undercut" you or "spoil your business" here, if you are really in the air-con business.
"does not include power supply" means socket installation for aircon is not included. which i mean the female round pin used for high power consumption.

Last edited by chunlianghere; 03-09-2009 at 02:57 PM..
chunlianghere is offline  
Old 03-09-2009, 03:17 PM   #843
Master Member
 
thesingingbard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,104
Since there is a possibility of terumo being an air-con contractor or in the air-con business, I am not sure whether there is any "conflict of interest" or "spoil the market" or "breach of any regulations" with revealing what my ID's air-con contractor has quoted me.

I received his quotation via e-mail. He qouted me a price with all these :
(1) Panas0nic Multi Split unit model : CU-3C20JKZ X 1,
(2) Panas0nic Model : CS-C9JKZW fan coils X 3,
quotation includes supply and installation charges, includes trunking, copper pipes, Thermosflex insulation CIs (3/4" with 3 years warranty)
(3) This quotation not includes power supply.

Can I ask what is meant by this "does not include power supply"?? What does he mean by the "power supply"??

Also, Thermosflex is better than Armaflex, right??

Sorry, almost forgot to mention that my air-con contractor SMS last night that I will get the NTUC vouchers.

Guess I will sign the quotation with him, since his offer is better than the other contractors, which I have asked to come take a look at my 4-room HDB.

If one is interested to know what price, do PM me. I don't wish to get into any form of trouble with revealing the price here.

And if you find it cheap and interested to install for your home, I can recommend the air-con contractor to you.

Sorry, terumo, don't mean to "undercut" you or "spoil your business" here, if you are really in the air-con business.
a while ago i tried to find out about the specs for Air-Con insulations just to see if my installers were giving me lousy materials. And I found it almost impossible to find any detailed specs on the net, but what i did found out was (if I recall correctly) that ARMAFLEX seems to be the most expensive.

then again most expensive doesn't necessarily mean better quality.

also, ARMAFLEX has a CLASS 0 insulation which I dun see on other insulations.

then again, i'm not even sure if CLASS 0 is better than CLASS 1 or vice-versa.

Terumo, thoughts?
__________________
君子和而不同,小人同而不和。
thesingingbard is offline  
Old 03-09-2009, 03:22 PM   #844
Master Member
 
thesingingbard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,104
yup..r410a is more efficient. as previous post mention, drainage pipe hav to be insulated due to the extreme coldness after r410a came out. from wat i tink tat r410a is faster in changing from hot high pressure to cold low pressure, n when it arrived to evapourator(fcu), the temp is alot lower than r22. therefore it cools the room faster becos of lower temp ba. *edit: tats y i was wondering inverter total btu is always higher than non-inverter for many brand/model. i mean multi split.

so if u were to compare non-inverter of r22 n r410a, r410a is efficient to r22.

but maintenance wise, r22 is better as terumo said.

correct me if there's wrong.


"does not include power supply" means socket installation for aircon is not included. which i mean the female round pin used for high power consumption.
that is what i thought too!
__________________
君子和而不同,小人同而不和。
thesingingbard is offline  
Old 03-09-2009, 05:59 PM   #845
Supremacy Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,073
a while ago i tried to find out about the specs for Air-Con insulations just to see if my installers were giving me lousy materials. And I found it almost impossible to find any detailed specs on the net, but what i did found out was (if I recall correctly) that ARMAFLEX seems to be the most expensive.

then again most expensive doesn't necessarily mean better quality.

also, ARMAFLEX has a CLASS 0 insulation which I dun see on other insulations.

then again, i'm not even sure if CLASS 0 is better than CLASS 1 or vice-versa.

Terumo, thoughts?
to wat i tink, CLASS 0 n CLASS 1 is something to do wit fire rating stuff. i know tat CLASS 0 is better resistant to fire, but CLASS 1 lose out abit.

this is wat i get from some spec sheet,
Class O Armaflex now also comes with Microban anti-microbial protection
built-in, offering enhanced resistance against bacteria and mould growth.
This makes Class O Armaflex suitable for use in offices, schools and hospitals.
so it means tat CLASS 0 hav more things built in.

Last edited by chunlianghere; 03-09-2009 at 07:14 PM..
chunlianghere is offline  
Old 03-09-2009, 08:42 PM   #846
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,848
Bro Chunlianghere is right, Class 0 is better in terms of resistant to fire, but we are talking about water droplets from condensation here, so i think Class 0 or Class 1 doesn not make any big difference. Copper piping grade is more important.

To Bro Seahmh, duh worry. I duh advertise my services here. We are all here to share. Any one saw me posting my contact and asking people to contact me? Hee...

I just hope more people are aware of basic installation terms and duh pay for "upgrades" here and there which you don't need.
3/8 insulation is enough for normal hdb. If concealed piping, use 1/2.
Drainage 13 or 16mm also can.
Just my views.

Last edited by terumo; 03-09-2009 at 08:44 PM..
terumo is offline  
Old 03-09-2009, 10:43 PM   #847
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 78
Bro Chunlianghere is right, Class 0 is better in terms of resistant to fire, but we are talking about water droplets from condensation here, so i think Class 0 or Class 1 doesn not make any big difference. Copper piping grade is more important.

To Bro Seahmh, duh worry. I duh advertise my services here. We are all here to share. Any one saw me posting my contact and asking people to contact me? Hee...

I just hope more people are aware of basic installation terms and duh pay for "upgrades" here and there which you don't need.
3/8 insulation is enough for normal hdb. If concealed piping, use 1/2.
Drainage 13 or 16mm also can.
Just my views.
Hi, terumo,

No. I am not saying that you will or are advertising your services here. I just do not wish to offend you or anyone unknowingly here, as we know sometimes, postings in the cyber-world may get mis-interrupted by others and misunderstanding can arise.

No offence to you with my posting.

So, is Thermaflex better or Armaflex better??

I asked around a few friends, all said they only use Armaflex.

The air-con contractor also told me when he came to see my place that he will be using Armaflex insulation. Then when I SMS him about the price, he also replied that he will be using G22, 3/4" Armaflex insulation, but then in his quotation, he quoted Thermaflex, which is why I am quite concerned.

I will definitely double, triple confirm with him again on this Sat before I sign on the quotation and pass him the cheque for deposit.

Hope to seek some advices here on whether Thermaflex (or Thermosflex) is better or Armaflex is better.

To lay-man like myself, since most people say Armaflex better, I will have the thinking that Armaflex is better than Thermaflex.
seahmh is offline  
Old 04-09-2009, 01:17 AM   #848
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,848
Bro Seahmh, no offence.

Armaflex more commonly used.
My views, don't use G22 and 3/4. Use G23 and 3/8 can already. Most 1/2.
Keep the $ to service your aircon next time.
It's too good a material to use.
You getting Pana sys 3 non-invertor? Pricing shld be ard $2.1-$2.2kk for G23 and 3/8 insulation.
If G22 and 3/4 insulation, min $2.3k and above.
If he gives you 3 years warrt, maybe total price you add another $150 for the extended warrt.
terumo is offline  
Old 04-09-2009, 08:55 AM   #849
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 78
Bro Seahmh, no offence.

Armaflex more commonly used.
My views, don't use G22 and 3/4. Use G23 and 3/8 can already. Most 1/2.
Keep the $ to service your aircon next time.
It's too good a material to use.
You getting Pana sys 3 non-invertor? Pricing shld be ard $2.1-$2.2kk for G23 and 3/8 insulation.
If G22 and 3/4 insulation, min $2.3k and above.
If he gives you 3 years warrt, maybe total price you add another $150 for the extended warrt.
Hi, Bro terumo,

The air-con contractor quoted me slightly above S$2K and below what you mentioned of "min S$2.3K and above", BUT with Thermaflex and also, he mentioned that Panas0nic has extended the S$100 NTUC vouchers till end of Sept (not sure if it is true), so I will be getting the NTUC vouchers (I will definitely "fight" to make sure I get it.).

Ok, in that case, I will definitely demand for a Armaflex insulation.

Thanks very much for your expert and valuable advice.

Cheers.
seahmh is offline  
Old 04-09-2009, 02:42 PM   #850
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,848
Oh...
IMO, if say a Handphone 1st hand brand new, outside selling for $500, you can walk the whole toa payoh central and find one for say $480, thats ok. Discount of $20.
But if you find one @ $400, what is your initial thoughts?
Is he selling a recond set passing off as new? or export set?
We are stating a product as an example here.
If services + products. installation being service and equipment being product.
Equipment price = air con equipment is more or less the same. Panasonic will sell their air con equipment thru dealers which your air con contractor will get from them. This price is controlled like RRP. Recommended Retail Price.
What the contractor will play around with is the installation.
I don't quite tink giving u G22 piping and 3/4 insulation, he can make a good profit margin out of it.
Unless he takes the jobs and sub contracts it out to Malaysian workers to do which will result in drop in quality.

A gets deal for $2.1k. Equipment costs say $1.3k (assuming).
2.1k - 1.3k = 800.
He takes 300 as commission and gives 500 to B.
B will take the 500 and buy materials (piping/insulation etc) to install the aircon.
Whats left is his profit. So do you think he will buy expensive materials? We base on expensive = good quality products.


I'm not saying that you did not found a good deal or trying to "pour cold water"
Remember, sometimes too good a deal, is too good to be true.

Last edited by terumo; 04-09-2009 at 02:45 PM..
terumo is offline  
Old 04-09-2009, 03:38 PM   #851
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 78
Oh...
IMO, if say a Handphone 1st hand brand new, outside selling for $500, you can walk the whole toa payoh central and find one for say $480, thats ok. Discount of $20.
But if you find one @ $400, what is your initial thoughts?
Is he selling a recond set passing off as new? or export set?
We are stating a product as an example here.
If services + products. installation being service and equipment being product.
Equipment price = air con equipment is more or less the same. Panasonic will sell their air con equipment thru dealers which your air con contractor will get from them. This price is controlled like RRP. Recommended Retail Price.
What the contractor will play around with is the installation.
I don't quite tink giving u G22 piping and 3/4 insulation, he can make a good profit margin out of it.
Unless he takes the jobs and sub contracts it out to Malaysian workers to do which will result in drop in quality.

A gets deal for $2.1k. Equipment costs say $1.3k (assuming).
2.1k - 1.3k = 800.
He takes 300 as commission and gives 500 to B.
B will take the 500 and buy materials (piping/insulation etc) to install the aircon.
Whats left is his profit. So do you think he will buy expensive materials? We base on expensive = good quality products.


I'm not saying that you did not found a good deal or trying to "pour cold water"
Remember, sometimes too good a deal, is too good to be true.
Hi, terumo,

I fully understand your explanation, which is why I was very "concerned" too ( ) about his "such a good deal". He quoted me S$2.1K and mentioned that Panas0nic has extended the offer of the S$100 NTUC vouchers till end of this month (I am not sure how true it is), so if I confirm the deal with him these two days, I will still get the S$100 NTUC vouchers.

I will be taking leave on the day he is installing the air-con to try to make sure that he is providing the materials that he promised in his quotation.

Thanks for your valuable advices.
seahmh is offline  
Old 04-09-2009, 10:13 PM   #852
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,848
Great.
The vouchers should be a direct promotion from Panasonic.
terumo is offline  
Old 04-09-2009, 10:30 PM   #853
Senior Member
 
sunht's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 2,339
Hi, terumo,

.....He quoted me S$2.1K and mentioned that Panas0nic has extended the offer of the S$100 NTUC vouchers till end of this month (I am not sure how true it is), so if I confirm the deal with him these two days, I will still get the S$100 NTUC vouchers.
I'm not sure about this. Last time I saw it from ST Saturday in Aug, Panasonic has one page ads about their Eco green Air-con and extend the $100 NTUC voucher (the voucher should get from vendor directly instead of from Panasonic) till end of Aug. Unless they extend the promotion again. You may check Saturday's ST to confirm if they have.
sunht is offline  
Old 06-09-2009, 09:21 AM   #854
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 78
Great.
The vouchers should be a direct promotion from Panasonic.
Yes, think the vouchers are a direct promotion from Panas0nic, not the air-con contractor.

Cheers.
seahmh is offline  
Old 06-09-2009, 09:25 AM   #855
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 78
I'm not sure about this. Last time I saw it from ST Saturday in Aug, Panasonic has one page ads about their Eco green Air-con and extend the $100 NTUC voucher (the voucher should get from vendor directly instead of from Panasonic) till end of Aug. Unless they extend the promotion again. You may check Saturday's ST to confirm if they have.
Hi, sunht,

Thanks for the advice.

But don't think I saw anything about this in yesterday's Saturday ST.

Maybe I have missed it.

I will go look through the papers one more time later.

Thanks.

BTW, : off topic: here a bit... Sorry.

Any one has any recommendations for buying lights, e.g. ceilings lights for my living room, my three bed-rooms, my kitchen, also the dimmer lights for my false ceilings??

The contractor broght my wife and I to the so-called "affiliated" lights shops at Balestier Road... Prices not very attractive, I was hoping to look for a third opinion from another light shop. I only know Tai Yong near Selegie Road...

Thanks in advance.
seahmh is offline  
Closed Thread
Important Forum Advisory Note
This forum is moderated by volunteer moderators who will react only to members' feedback on posts. Moderators are not employees or representatives of HWZ. Forum members and moderators are responsible for their own posts.

Please refer to our Terms of Service for more information.


Thread Tools

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On