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Air conditioning - Any recommendations please??

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Old 18-12-2016, 12:44 PM   #8971
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dachee.

May I have your opinion on the following York model. system 3.

http://www.johnsoncontrols.com/en_sg...iciency-series

YCHMXC009 x3 FCU
YCHMY021 x 1 compressor.

Actually already paid deposit for this model. but still wish to listen to some honest opinion.
Hi,

The FCU features are reasonable but much lesser than the Mitsubishi Electric StarMex models. The FCU noice level is 20 dB which is quite quiet at low speed. StarMex is 19 dB. The condenser is comparable with 4 ticks, inverter and rotary. However for some reason, the 4 ticks given by York has made reference to the year 2014. Don't really know what York mean with this remarks.

If I am not wrong, the specification total capacity is calculated differently from that of Mitsubishi. York only take into consideration the FCU capacity but not the condenser. So for unlimited current property (your house), your 3 FCUs can have 9+9+9, ie 2.4+2.4+2.4 kW giving a total capacity of 7.2 kW (or 24.5k Btu) This is not the capacity that the condenser can support as the MYC021 condenser only has 20.4k Btu. There is no indication as to the distribution of the capacity for each FCU in the specification.

Nevertheless, the 5 ticks StarMex also do not indicate this anymore.

However, the capacity also depends on the setting temperature and other factors like your activity, heating sources, hot air leaking, humidity in the room, etc.

But in reality, your room may not need the 9 k Btu and therefore the 20.4k Btu may be sufficient.

It is therefore good to know the Btu that your room needs.

You may wish to know that the total capacity of 7.2 kW specified by York is based on indoor temperature of 27 degree C DB (dry bulb), 19 degree C WB (wet bulb) and outdoor temperature of 35 degree C DB.

The above are based on technical specification and has no reference to the quality of the product.

The above are my opinion and hope that they are helpful.
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Old 18-12-2016, 12:57 PM   #8972
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thanks so much for your detailed explanation.

new hdb rooms pretty small.Taking reference from your previous post seems that I'll be ok.

I think 2 common rooms each maybe 45 to 50m3.

even my mbr I'm guessing it's at the most 55 to 60m3.

plus I'll likely run 2 out of 3 fcu for night as one of the room is for day time use.
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Old 18-12-2016, 02:09 PM   #8973
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To ryangoh,

You are using all 3 rooms at the same time daily for 12 hours?

I think 2 room using Aircon 12hour. The 3rd room seldom used.
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Old 18-12-2016, 02:13 PM   #8974
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Hi,

There are a few things that is good to know.

1. Within the same brand, there are more than one model with system 3 as a result of different condenser capacity as well as the combination of the number of FCUs and their capacities.

2. Within the system 3 of different brands, they have different specifications on the condenser as well as the FCUs as individual factors such as COP, capacity, the fan speed achievable, the noise level.

3. And as a whole system there are the number of energy label ticks, the annual cost and annual kWh.

4. And lastly, the way you wish to use the system and the layout and size of the room as well as your activities and other heat sources.

You may wish to know that the annual cost calculated by NEA is based on an 8hrs operation with 16 hrs of standby at 27 cents /kWh BUT only at about 30% of the full capacity of the system. This limit the room temperature to about 6.5 degree cooler from the outside temperature.
If you see a model with annual energy cost of $620, you would need to triple it, ie $620X3.33 = $2,064/year if you run your system at full capacity.

You may noticed then that the saving from energy is sufficient to off set the cost of the whole system within a year and the half or 2 years.

It is therefore good to look beyond the initial cost.

The above are my opinion and hope that they are helpful.
Dear dachee,

Is dalkin spare part exp than Mitsubishi when comes to repair? Heard salesman saying

Thinking of getting dalkin from below link. 4tick at this price $2k plus look good deal.

http://www.lazada.sg/daikin-inverter-system-3-aircon-3-hdb-promo-ftks25dvm-3-3mks50fsg-free-installation-2567668.html
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Old 18-12-2016, 02:22 PM   #8975
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Hi all

Can I know what is the main difference between sys 3 with or without inverter?
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Old 18-12-2016, 05:27 PM   #8976
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Hi all

Can I know what is the main difference between sys 3 with or without inverter?
Hi,

Most air conditioners nowadays are with inverter. It does not matter whether it is system 3, 2 or 4. Even single split comes with inverter.

Inverter air conditioner allows the compressor motor to run at different speed rather than just one speed as with non-inverter compressor motor. As such, it need not have to turn off and on when the set temperature is reach like the non-inverter system. Instead, it adjust its speed to different heat load in the room.

Below are some advantages of using inverter:

1. Energy Savings is one of the most important factors to consider when buying an equipment. In the long run, the benefit outweighs the initial cost. The inverter technology uses less energy compared to the traditional system.

ON/OFF type of compressor has large starting current, sometimes 6 times more than the running current. This causes flicker to lights and the energy consumed is greater. Typically, there is a 20% to 30% savings in power consumption.

2. Comfort to the users is another advantage of this system. During start-up, the compressor can run full speed to provide quick cooling to the room. After the desired room temperature has been achieved, the speed of the compressor is regulated using the variable frequency drive based on the required cooling load of the room.

The fluctuation of temperature is minimum compared to the ON/OFF type of compressor. This provides a comfortable environment for the occupants at all times.

3. Quiet Operation is another feature that inverter technology offers. The outdoor unit which contains the inverter compressor is much more quieter compared to the non-inverter compressor. Hence, you do not have to worry about noise when you sleep.

Of course, there are disadvantages.

The above are my opinion, hope that they are helpful.
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Old 18-12-2016, 06:11 PM   #8977
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Dear dachee,

Is dalkin spare part exp than Mitsubishi when comes to repair? Heard salesman saying

Thinking of getting dalkin from below link. 4tick at this price $2k plus look good deal.

http://www.lazada.sg/daikin-inverter...n-2567668.html
Hi,

Not really cheap at $2.5k+.

Beware of the following:
AIR-CON REPLACEMENT = Use Back All Old/Existing Air-Con Piping / Old Wire Cable / Old insulation / Old Copper Pipe / Old Trunking. (New Installation Package Available)
Free Install New Air-Con / Free Delivery / Free Dismantle & Dispose Old Air-Con System/ Free Air-Con
Stainless Steel Bracket and power point are not included.

All the above can have great consequences and more cost added.
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Old 18-12-2016, 07:56 PM   #8978
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Hi,

Not really cheap at $2.5k+.

Beware of the following:
AIR-CON REPLACEMENT = Use Back All Old/Existing Air-Con Piping / Old Wire Cable / Old insulation / Old Copper Pipe / Old Trunking. (New Installation Package Available)
Free Install New Air-Con / Free Delivery / Free Dismantle & Dispose Old Air-Con System/ Free Air-Con
Stainless Steel Bracket and power point are not included.

All the above can have great consequences and more cost added.
Now I know what air con replacement actually means. Thanks for explanations...
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Old 18-12-2016, 07:58 PM   #8979
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Hi,

Most air conditioners nowadays are with inverter. It does not matter whether it is system 3, 2 or 4. Even single split comes with inverter.

Inverter air conditioner allows the compressor motor to run at different speed rather than just one speed as with non-inverter compressor motor. As such, it need not have to turn off and on when the set temperature is reach like the non-inverter system. Instead, it adjust its speed to different heat load in the room.

Below are some advantages of using inverter:

1. Energy Savings is one of the most important factors to consider when buying an equipment. In the long run, the benefit outweighs the initial cost. The inverter technology uses less energy compared to the traditional system.

ON/OFF type of compressor has large starting current, sometimes 6 times more than the running current. This causes flicker to lights and the energy consumed is greater. Typically, there is a 20% to 30% savings in power consumption.

2. Comfort to the users is another advantage of this system. During start-up, the compressor can run full speed to provide quick cooling to the room. After the desired room temperature has been achieved, the speed of the compressor is regulated using the variable frequency drive based on the required cooling load of the room.

The fluctuation of temperature is minimum compared to the ON/OFF type of compressor. This provides a comfortable environment for the occupants at all times.

3. Quiet Operation is another feature that inverter technology offers. The outdoor unit which contains the inverter compressor is much more quieter compared to the non-inverter compressor. Hence, you do not have to worry about noise when you sleep.

Of course, there are disadvantages.

The above are my opinion, hope that they are helpful.
Wow thanks for sharing. Very useful yet easy to understand.
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Old 18-12-2016, 10:33 PM   #8980
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Can use a 27k/30k btu outdoor unit will do.

I think 2 room using Aircon 12hour. The 3rd room seldom used.
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Old 18-12-2016, 10:35 PM   #8981
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If you can provide me the model of your outdoor unit, i will be able to determine if its a system 2 or 3 or 4.

Hi Dr Dachee

Wanna install extra aircon unit in my room

Current setup is 2 units at separate room connected to a single compressor.....

The compressor is in my room.... not sure abt the BTU or model of my compressor.... but if really need to, I can check so that more advice could be given....

Any contractor for recommendation to check the next step to install the extra unit and quote?

Pls pm me....
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Old 18-12-2016, 10:38 PM   #8982
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Then is model is suitable for your usage, without taking into the consideration the quality of the brand.

I think 2 room using Aircon 12hour. The 3rd room seldom used.
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Old 19-12-2016, 01:24 AM   #8983
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Hi all gurus,

i have more or less decided on Starmex, however i not too sure to go onto 5 ticks or 2 ticks series.
It will be a system 3 unit. 3*9kbtu fcu.
1 Bedroom probably will be on 8 hours daily. Other 2 probably 2 hours daily for the next few years as we are just a newly wed couple. only 2 of us staying.
I understand that, if i on 8 hours daily for all the 3 room, i probably should get the 5 ticks series, but looking at my usage will 2 ticks be better for me?

2 ticks series (Thailand) be more stable/lasting then compare to the 5 ticks (China)?

Thanks in advance!!
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Old 19-12-2016, 09:56 AM   #8984
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Hi all gurus,

i have more or less decided on Starmex, however i not too sure to go onto 5 ticks or 2 ticks series.
It will be a system 3 unit. 3*9kbtu fcu.
1 Bedroom probably will be on 8 hours daily. Other 2 probably 2 hours daily for the next few years as we are just a newly wed couple. only 2 of us staying.
I understand that, if i on 8 hours daily for all the 3 room, i probably should get the 5 ticks series, but looking at my usage will 2 ticks be better for me?

2 ticks series (Thailand) be more stable/lasting then compare to the 5 ticks (China)?

Thanks in advance!!
Hi,

In my opinion, you have the following options:
1. System 3 for all bedrooms
2. System 2 for one 8 hrs + one 2 hrs bedrooms and one single split for one 2 hrs to be installed at a later time when you really need it.
3. Single split for one 8 hrs + system 2 for two 2 hrs bedrooms to be installed at a later time when you really need it.

Note that options 2 and 3 would need you to have approval to install 2 power points.

Why option 2 and 3 may be better?
1. A 3-in-1 system would mean that warranty will start from day one, inclusive of your installation warranty which is likely to be one year only. As you seldom use the other 2 hrs rooms, you may not notice any installation defects within the short time of usage. Unlike the air conditioner product, installation quality has no QC and QA. You will need to be the QC and QA or it will be a hit and run issue.

2. A 3-in-1 system would mean that when one part fails, that is related to the 8 hrs room, you may have problem with the other rooms, making them non-usable.

3. As you seldom use the other 2 rooms, you can install an updated technology and model in future when you really need them for almost the same price.

4. Personally, I would prefer to have single split for each room if you can. But otherwise, the nearest will be combination of 2 condensers, giving options 2 and 3. This is because, StarMex single split MSY-GE10VA/MUY-GE10VA is 4 ticks, very close to the 5 ticks FJ series which is at the low side of 5 ticks in NEA COP (coefficient of Performance) rating. Meaning the FJ series is almost like a 4 ticks.

5. You may noticed that the size of the outdoor unit for single split, system 2 and 3 are of the same size. Meaning that the condenser coil in the single split is able to cool the gas faster and more efficient than system 2 as it support only one FCU. Similarly, system 2 will have better gas cooling than system 3. All this affects the performance and wear and tear (ie the life) of the compressors.

6. You may also noticed that the condenser capacity of 6 kW (in total) for each room (6/3 = 2) with system 3 does not equal to the each FCU (which is 2.5 kW). However system 2 is much closer with 4.8 kW (ie each room will get 4.8/2 = 2.4 kW) every close to the FCU 2.5 kW. This will then depends on how cold you set your temperature.

7. Having a 2 ticks system would mean that you will always be paying more for using the air conditioner. Looking at the energy label for a system 3, the 2 ticks will cost you $1060/year and the 5 ticks $620/year. This if I am not wrong this is based on a 30% usage. So a 5 ticks will save you $440/yr.

Whereas if you use a single split and a system 2 combination, your saving in comparison with the 2 ticks can be $1060/yr (2 ticks system 3) - {$274/yr (single split) + $489/yr (system 2) =$763} = $279/yr.

8. Most installation are now charged per FCU, so doing one room or two then one or one then two may not have much installation cost differences. Good to check with our seller.

9. However installing the systems at separate time may affect some addition conduit that would otherwise be grouped together into one where all to the piping and wiring meet.



The above are my opinion and hope that they are helpful.

Last edited by dachee; 19-12-2016 at 10:57 AM..
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Old 19-12-2016, 11:42 AM   #8985
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Hello,

Currently looking at the following, i am very new to this though.

1. Brand
- Panasonic
- Daikin
- Mitsubishi Electric
- Mitsubishi Heavy Industries

Capacity
- Please advise how to look into capacity? Do u mean the BTU or?
- How will the ticks affect? I went to take a look at Courts and found that the more ticks = more expensive

Please advise.

Thank you.
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