HWZ Forums

Login Register FAQ Mark Forums Read

Air purifier? - Part 2

Like Tree497Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 17-09-2016, 01:56 PM   #1996
Master Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,676
Do you apply repellent to fingers and palm, face, cheeks, forehead, ear? I find that these areas like seldom mosquito bite. I do not like apply these areas and face since it near to lips eyes mouth (some repellent have caution on these lips eye mouth). Fingers and palm need to touch things, if there is repellent I think a bit of repellent will be on anything that I touch. Not sure.


The guy in the video eye area got itchy suddenly and he scratched with his fingers that he applied repellent. Will repellent get to the eyes or not?

Last edited by super365; 17-09-2016 at 01:59 PM..
super365 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-09-2016, 01:57 PM   #1997
Great Supremacy Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 54,773
Bro super365 asked a good question regarding if Prallethrin (Baygon plug-in vaporiser) is the best. Baygon is using 1.6% Prallethrin. Above d-trans Allethrin is 2% and 2.6% respectively for Shieldtox and Mortein.

This study documented the mortality timings for the mozzies. (ie close door/windows smoke out session)

http://www.icup.org.uk/reports/icup041.pdf

d-allerthrin is at double the concentration of Prallerthrin.



I found a good article with regards to metoflurin (used in the OFF Clip-on repeller as 30% concentration.

Metoflurin has very good volatility at room temperature, better than the other ****rin chemicals.

Note, in this room, the mortality with the 1 x mosquito coil (d-allethrin) is not high. This is because the room has opened windows. This kind of finding is not surprising, as with bro tilverdyn's previous findings.

Hence you'd need to close the room's doors and windows preferably windows are the new type with rubber strips (I believe 95% of the windows out there are of this new type anyway), other than sustaining the duration.

Summary : The findings found that metofluthrin does not actually repel or expel, despite being so much more potent. But it does kill them buggers extremely well, even in a ventilated setting and had a spill-over effect to the neighbouring room.

This agrees with the above video test in the real world, the Off Clip-on does not repel while the d-allethrin ThermaCell repels out in the open.
But actually the metofluthrin in Off Clip-on is much more lethal in a room with windows opened setting.

Since metofluthrin is quite volatile in our room temps, it can work even without the fan. With a fan + enclosed room with closed windows/doors, mortality effect would be very fast, i'd guess within an hour or so?

You could even just buy the refills and not the fan if you want.

Read the article yourself to have a feel on how it works.

http://www.ajtmh.org/content/81/1/94.full
__________________
1-hr ug/m3 + PSI fuzzyview.neocities.org
MetOne www.apaq-group.com/#!haze-monitoring/c1r02

Last edited by WussRedXLi; 17-09-2016 at 02:21 PM..
WussRedXLi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-09-2016, 02:05 PM   #1998
Great Supremacy Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 54,773
I think 1 x clip-on with 1 set of rechargeable battery can work for a 5-room HDB totally enclosed during going to work time. .

Cost should be ok. Each device is just $8.90. But need to plug-up the bottle when not in use, coz it's much more volatile. It says use within 14 days of opening, but i guess that's if it's just left there opened, screwed-in and left unplugged.

For the plug-ins they still need to heat it, but for long term > 1 month of storage you'd still need to put the cap back on i guess.

$8.90 device
http://www.fairprice.com.sg/webapp/w...atalogId=10051

6.30 for 2 refills
http://www.fairprice.com.sg/webapp/w...atalogId=10051

Just 12 hours of protection upon opening. Each refill also 12-hrs only.


Wait - made a mistake, the device contains just 46 mg. 30% of that 46mg is metofluthrin, so that's 13.6mg metofluthrin)? That's very little and very expensive to use coz it's very volatile.


For a bottle of Shieldtox/Mortein, it's $4.95 for a bottle of d-allethrin 43ml and 2.6%, making 0.86 ml of pure allethrin. Specific gravity: 1.005 -1.015. So basically that is 860mg of pure allethrin.


Actually you can work backwards a little. The NCBI article i posted earlier noted that metofluthrin is 40X more effective than d-allethrin.

So 13.6mg x 40 = 544mg, it's equivalent in KO power to 544mg of d-allethrin.

Very effective in terms of mottality, but damn expensive for real-life use.
__________________
1-hr ug/m3 + PSI fuzzyview.neocities.org
MetOne www.apaq-group.com/#!haze-monitoring/c1r02

Last edited by WussRedXLi; 17-09-2016 at 02:31 PM..
WussRedXLi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-09-2016, 02:24 PM   #1999
Great Supremacy Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 54,773
Do you apply repellent to fingers and palm, face, cheeks, forehead, ear? I find that these areas like seldom mosquito bite. I do not like apply these areas and face since it near to lips eyes mouth (some repellent have caution on these lips eye mouth). Fingers and palm need to touch things, if there is repellent I think a bit of repellent will be on anything that I touch. Not sure.
I don't really have use for applied-on repellents now, but last time when we had to use it, we do apply on every single exposed surface. Ears and even like up to 2 inches on the face from the neck/ears. We do apply on the forehead, but do that if you are not expecting the perspire profusely.

Don't apply on the nose though.

We do wash hands, so that area would be sort of unprotected. But if you are on a trek in Sungei Buloh and not expecting to touch food, then feel free to apply as well?
super365 likes this.
__________________
1-hr ug/m3 + PSI fuzzyview.neocities.org
MetOne www.apaq-group.com/#!haze-monitoring/c1r02
WussRedXLi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-09-2016, 02:40 PM   #2000
Master Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,676
I don't really have use for applied-on repellents now, but last time when we had to use it, we do apply on every single exposed surface. Ears and even like up to 2 inches on the face from the neck/ears. We do apply on the forehead, but do that if you are not expecting the perspire profusely.

Don't apply on the nose though.

We do wash hands, so that area would be sort of unprotected. But if you are on a trek in Sungei Buloh and not expecting to touch food, then feel free to apply as well?
What do you use to repel mosquito when you go out? Go out also never apply repellent?
super365 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-09-2016, 03:04 PM   #2001
Great Supremacy Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 54,773
What do you use to repel mosquito when you go out? Go out also never apply repellent?
We don't live in a mosquito hotspot. Anyway, apply only when you go to hotspot areas ba. Even then, the risk is not very high nowadays.

We are afraid of dengue though. It's a very bad disease. Can't imagine kids or pregnant women going through that.
Those very old elderly, like > 80 years old, with or without underlying conditions esp those immunocompromised, lagi worst of the lot.
My grandfather admitted to SGH, typical cut coz fell down. Already patched up and recovering, then kena cough, then pneumonia, medications did not help. Then uplorry.
If 90++ and kena dengue, that might be the last infection that the person might be seeing even though dengue could be relatively mild, but note the word relatively mild ie to the general population.

PS. Just been thinking abt the prev article...

1 x mosquito coil (allethrin). No significant mortality vs control
1 x metofluthrin tower, close to 100% mortality.
Conditions : Opened windows (so metofluthrin is damn able to kill mozzies in a semi-enclosed space, but not on repellency/expellency).

40X more potent. Lets say you are using 2 vaporisers, that becomes 20X.

Can we hit 20X higher concentration than metofluthrin in a closed windows setting within 4-8 hrs so that it can accumulate vs opened windows setting? I'd guesstimate it to be relatively easy to hit 20X.

This is esp so for those new BTO bedrooms / units which are ultra small.
super365 likes this.
__________________
1-hr ug/m3 + PSI fuzzyview.neocities.org
MetOne www.apaq-group.com/#!haze-monitoring/c1r02
WussRedXLi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-09-2016, 03:33 PM   #2002
Master Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,676
Is the OFF Clip-on repeller (metoflurin) more powerful than Baygon liquid repeller (prallethrin)?
super365 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-09-2016, 04:01 PM   #2003
Great Supremacy Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 54,773
Is the OFF Clip-on repeller (metoflurin) more powerful than Baygon liquid repeller (prallethrin)?
With respect to the specific mosquito Aedes Aegypti that was reared in the lab that they have gotten from Penang (ie really same stuff as we have in SG) in which the study i posted above has researched on, yes.

Prallerthrin is 2X more potent than Allethrin.
Metofluthrin is up to 40X more potent than Allethrin.

Is sure die in a fully enclosed room.

With 2X Allethrin vaporisers and 8-hrs, we could still be just a wee bit off from 100% mortality...but i'll take it nevertheless.

Issue - it's fast but expensive. Even if you gun 1 x fan for 1 hr, it can do 12 days/nights only. 6.95 for 12 refills.

But then again cost is relative. If it's the parents with young infants/immuno-compromised elderly, or in families in which there is a pregnant woman, then seriously $$$ could be somewhat secondary i guess.
super365 likes this.
__________________
1-hr ug/m3 + PSI fuzzyview.neocities.org
MetOne www.apaq-group.com/#!haze-monitoring/c1r02
WussRedXLi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-09-2016, 06:41 PM   #2004
Great Supremacy Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 54,773
It's just a foil covering the treated evaporation area.
Not sure if it's re-stickable or not.

WussRedXLi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-09-2016, 09:32 PM   #2005
Great Supremacy Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 72,741
The off! clip on i was reading a review, it's good only if one stays in the same spot..If happen to move then have to wait 1-2 sec for the shield to form up again..

In short, it's good only if u're stationary..

Anyway, when i was in my wife's hometown in malaysia over last weekend..I spray some off! repellent(Their side only 15% deet while sg is 18%)..I was sitting outside then i notice a aedes mozzie landing on my arm, nv poke then flew to another spot on my arm then flew to another before flying off..
super365 likes this.
Gixxerfied is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 17-09-2016, 09:45 PM   #2006
Great Supremacy Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 54,773
The off! clip on i was reading a review, it's good only if one stays in the same spot..If happen to move then have to wait 1-2 sec for the shield to form up again..

In short, it's good only if u're stationary..


Anyway, when i was in my wife's hometown in malaysia over last weekend..I spray some off! repellent(Their side only 15% deet while sg is 18%)..I was sitting outside then i notice a aedes mozzie landing on my arm, nv poke then flew to another spot on my arm then flew to another before flying off..
Yep...i posted quite a few youtube vids also, real world on the ground tests. But that is not unexpected, in fact this "issue" plagues all aerial type repellents. From your few tens of KG of chrysanthemum flowers placed at the intake of Air Purifiers to mosquito coils to 20 cans of Anti-Moz herbal based stuff.

I give you a real world scenario that's easy to understand. You go to a temple into the enclosed hall with 1000 sticks of incense so it's real smokey and full of smell. Stand upwind, will you smell any incense smoke? Barely. Go to the other end, i think most would be buay tahan.
So in those scenarios at home with wind, do not expect any repellency effect.

In fact, nope....in terms of REPELLENCY (not mortality) the video review that i gave to super365 showed that even the Thermalcell allethrin mat beat it in terms of repellency. In fact, the Off clip-on did not work at all in terms of repellency, close to ZERO effect in a dead calm setting. Thermacell mat has an allethrin concentration of 48mg/mat, a bit more than the typical 36mg/mat stuff generally that's sold out there.

And the article that i posted showed that it did not show any repellency or expellency effect in an enclosed room with windows opened. But it did attract the mozzies, in which case they were killed during the test.

Read here : http://www.ajtmh.org/content/81/1/94.full

(mozzies used in the tests were Aedes aegypti sourced from Penang so it's 100% relevant)

But apparently it's really super effective to KILL mosquitoes in an extended duration and not the typical repellency situation that's measured in seconds. Just that it's expensive. If you are willing to dump 6hrs worth of fan operation into an enclosed room (with mosquito window screens so no issue of external mozzies flying in when you ventilate afterwards), it's 100% mortality without doubt. That'd be at a cost of S$1.70, assuming AAA rechargeable batteries. If you use AAA alkalines, then it'd be like $1 more. Nope, not the typical AA batteries, so don't think that you are safe with Amazonbasics AA NiMHs.
Per 6hr runtime.

And once opened, must finish using within 14 days. Probably at the 13th day mark after taking away the foil, it'd suffer from quite a significant % of natural evaporation as well (which is $$$). Coz the chemical is somewhat volatile at room temp, many times more than say allethrin. Eg, alcohol is a very volatile at room temps.

And nope, it's not like the bottled repellents from Shieldtox/Mortein/Baygon, cannot put the cap back on. Also, those suffer from many times less natural evaporation anyway, that's why can last 60 days with 8hrs of heated operation per day.


I read that it's a pretty new chemical, so i guess some coy patented it....and decided to charge a lot for it since it's so darn effective at the target organisms. Let me go google.
super365 likes this.
__________________
1-hr ug/m3 + PSI fuzzyview.neocities.org
MetOne www.apaq-group.com/#!haze-monitoring/c1r02

Last edited by WussRedXLi; 17-09-2016 at 10:30 PM..
WussRedXLi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-09-2016, 10:22 PM   #2007
Great Supremacy Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 54,773
http://www.sumitomo-chem.co.jp/engli...050200_imi.pdf

Metofluthrin (SumiOne®, Eminence®) is an exciting novel pyrethroid discovered by Sumitomo Chemical Co., Ltd. It was registered in Japan in January 2005 and has now been under worldwide development for environmental health use.

Metofluthrin has extremely high knockdown activity against various insect pests especially mosquitoes, as well as relatively high volatility and low mammalian toxicity. This is applicable to not only existing formulations and devices such as a mosquito coil and a liquid vaporizer, but also various new type products such as a fan vaporizer, a paper emanator and a resin emanator.

It is noted that knockdown activity of Metofluthrin is more than 40 times higher than that of d-allethrin against southern house mosquitoes in a mosquito coil formulation. This paper describes the discovery story, insecticidal efficacies in various formulations, synthetic methods and safety evaluations of Metofluthrin.


Note this is knockdown efficacy and lethal efficacy, not repellency or expellency (those latter 2 are tested and reported in the study, shared in the above post )





Table 10 has especially important info for both metofluthrin and d-allethrin.
Note, it is for Culex mosquitoes. Both this Table and the scietific study in the link 1 post above stated that Culex had longer knockdown time etc than Aedes, hypothesized that it's due to the much larger size of the Culex.

Note in Table 9, it seems that prallethrin is much better than d-allethrin, but this is coz it's a topical application, ie applied onto the mosquito. Previously i have also shared that prallethrin has approx the same lethal time timing vs d-allethrin, just that the concentration of d-allethrin was twice higher than prallethrin.

Also note the 28 cubic metre chamber space, which is approximately our BTO MBR room size. This one is different from the previous study, in which the mosquito coil (d-allethrin) did not statistically differ from the control room in terms of mortality. Also note, mortality is not equal to knockdown...but i guess knockdown is the precusor to mortality.
__________________
1-hr ug/m3 + PSI fuzzyview.neocities.org
MetOne www.apaq-group.com/#!haze-monitoring/c1r02

Last edited by WussRedXLi; 17-09-2016 at 10:47 PM..
WussRedXLi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-09-2016, 11:18 PM   #2008
Great Supremacy Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 54,773







From the below, it seems that the smaller mosquito Aedes xxxx species is even more susceptible to metofluthrin vs other phyrethrins. Really pulls away from the rest with Aedes, as compared to the Culex.
(ie extremely effective against Aedes mosquitoes)

But note, if you get such stuff to want to kill other pests, eg ants/mites, then the lead with metofluthrin might not be as much, or it might be even better.

You can see transfluthrin in some of the aerosol spray insecticide cans.
PS. Do not use aerosol spray insecticides if you have young kids, pregnant mothers, nursing women at home, unless if you can 99% clean up the spray residues "hotspots" afterwards. Vapor release is totally different, even if there is condensation on any surface in the room, it is magnitudes better managed + extremely spread out that there probably is no risk at all.

Metofluthrin is also magnitudes safer even if there are minute amounts of residue condensation in the room surface if used in an enclosed space, coz it's volatile at room temp as compared to other ***thrins. Just a short duration airing would suffice.



super365 likes this.
__________________
1-hr ug/m3 + PSI fuzzyview.neocities.org
MetOne www.apaq-group.com/#!haze-monitoring/c1r02

Last edited by WussRedXLi; 17-09-2016 at 11:22 PM..
WussRedXLi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-09-2016, 11:33 PM   #2009
Great Supremacy Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 54,773
Gixxerfield, the more i read and the more i understand, the more i think that this is the holy grail. It kills the aedes completely, like a blue light electric zapper + lure does but without the drawbacks of it (that is if it manages to lure and kill it in the day time, which probably needs a couple of days to have any meaningful/repeatable results).

If one is in a hotspot area and finds that there is a mozzie trapped in the house despite having a mosquito screen, this is it. You don't have to worry if it's a confirmed kill or if it's going to work or not like the electric zapper with lure....

Close all windows and smoke it out, lethality is confirmed. Easy, simple, safe (assuming no pax in the room and airing it for a very short while after treatment) and 100% result.

You can also do so with a couple of allethrin/prallerthrin vaporizers as well. But need longer duration, ie more planning. And airing duration is relatively longer compared to metofluthrin.

Issue is, it's not cheap per shot. But the allethrin/prallethrin route is not many times cheaper also, though they are still cheaper if compared so in the long run and if you can afford to wait that 8-10hrs, the A or P chemicals make more sense esp since it can be stored at room temperature much longer after opening. (methofluthrin need to just use it all up within 14 days after opening)
Methofluthrin might cost ~ $10 for a whole HDB house per shot. But for those who can afford it, this is it!
super365 likes this.
__________________
1-hr ug/m3 + PSI fuzzyview.neocities.org
MetOne www.apaq-group.com/#!haze-monitoring/c1r02

Last edited by WussRedXLi; 17-09-2016 at 11:44 PM..
WussRedXLi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-09-2016, 11:53 PM   #2010
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,964
The off! clip on i was reading a review, it's good only if one stays in the same spot..If happen to move then have to wait 1-2 sec for the shield to form up again..

In short, it's good only if u're stationary..

Anyway, when i was in my wife's hometown in malaysia over last weekend..I spray some off! repellent(Their side only 15% deet while sg is 18%)..I was sitting outside then i notice a aedes mozzie landing on my arm, nv poke then flew to another spot on my arm then flew to another before flying off..
hahahhaha..... lol how u know its aedes mozzie
__________________
Sell: Seagate Personal Cloud, AIRVAX Purifier, Timberland Wallet,etc. PM if interested.
tildveryn is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Important Forum Advisory Note
This forum is moderated by volunteer moderators who will react only to members' feedback on posts. Moderators are not employees or representatives of HWZ. Forum members and moderators are responsible for their own posts.

Please refer to our Terms of Service for more information.


Thread Tools

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On