[benedium]

From what I learnt after meeting TS, he has experience with IEMs so I imagine he would know if left side IEM and right side IEM uses different drivers. I told him before he chose the sony speakers to make sure dedicated center speakers are available for when he decides he needs a center speaker. Why take the risk when he has to spend money to buy a center anyway? That's my logic.

[Soccer Ball]

benedium wrote:

From what I learnt after meeting TS, he has experience with IEMs so I imagine he would know if left side IEM and right side IEM uses different drivers. I told him before he chose the sony speakers to make sure dedicated center speakers are available for when he decides he needs a center speaker. Why take the risk when he has to spend money to buy a center anyway? That's my logic.

You meet up with TS

[benedium]

Soccer Ball wrote:

You meet up with TS

Yup. We went to adelphi and audiohouse and I did my usual long winded sharing of my own personal experience haha.

[benedium]

techidiot wrote:

Some people not just TS, don't feel justify to spend money on certain stuff.
Example AVR with speaker, to some they think cheap speaker
should do the job just fine.

However AVR with speaker can be quite expensive similar with a PC.
Gaming PC cost few thousand dollar especially but there are some
not willing to spend so much.

If can get under thousand that would be better.

What u just said has no relevance to what I said.

[benedium]

Eh crinkypeanut, just curious... did u do the YPAO room correction and all that? Share abit more leh.

[crinkypeanut]

patryn33 wrote:

After watching TV with whatever content are you happy with just the speakers?
Pioneer SP-C22 By Andrew Jones has great reviews. I think they discontinued.

Honestly, I am already quite happy with what I have, thought that since I saw a good price for the Pioneer centre I might as well spend one shot and then don't have to think about it in the future already hahaha

techidiot wrote:

Recommend to get a Sony SS-CS8 center as Pioneer and Sony sound signature are different.
However Pioneer Andrew Jones have discontinue so another reason
to get the Sony one instead.

Sub wise, I have no recommendation best let other recommend.
What I'm using is Pioneer Andrew Jones 5.1 set, the sub is also Pioneer.

benedium wrote:

I also told him make sure get same series and brand of center speaker already. Maybe he forgot. Sound signature different will sound very uncomfortable, especially for front 3 speakers.

Other than that, also remember save for bigger subwoofer that can go down to around 20hz. Save for now rather than get something that u regret later. Sorry if I seem naggy heheh.

The Sony Centre is on 2 month pre order last I called to check. It also costs more than what I got my floorstanding speakers for I saw some reviews that weren't too stellar and I thought I might as well get a better one for cheaper. Mixing wise, not sure how that might turn out honestly.

patryn33 wrote:

for ppl who tried them can share difference in sound signature?

Can TS discern? other threads ppl just mix and match from donated speakers dont seem to ID sound signature stuff from the rojak.

Yea that's the question, not sure whether I'll able to discern

[crinkypeanut]

Well here it is!
Edit: dk why it's not showing but here's the link: https://imgur.com/a/OpoEhB5

Soccer Ball wrote:

You meet up with TS

benedium wrote:

Yup. We went to adelphi and audiohouse and I did my usual long winded sharing of my own personal experience haha.

I guess we had a little outing just to see what was available and test out some speakers. Unfortunately we went on a Sunday and almost all the stores were closed at Adelphi

techidiot wrote:

Some people not just TS, don't feel justify to spend money on certain stuff.
Example AVR with speaker, to some they think cheap speaker
should do the job just fine.

However AVR with speaker can be quite expensive similar with a PC.
Gaming PC cost few thousand dollar especially but there are some
not willing to spend so much.

If can get under thousand that would be better.

I would much rather drop a few thousand on a PC just cus that's my main interest But for speakers , I'm not that into it to spend this much at such an early stage

benedium wrote:

Eh crinkypeanut, just curious... did u do the YPAO room correction and all that? Share abit more leh.

Yes I did. I spent 4 -5 hours going through all the individual settings and reading through the receiver manual. But honestly abit headache From scenes to which surround program e.g dts neo, neo 6, surround, concert etc. Really hurt my brain after taking in so much info. Though I managed to find some interesting information. I have 2 spare speakers from my mother's CD player set and I saw in the manual that it's possible to run a 5.1 setup with Yamaha's "Virtual Cinema Front", instead of using rear speakers you just put them in the front



I might consider just using them in this way since I have no space behind my sofa because it's against the rear wall. Though, they recommend the surrounds to the sides of the front 2 but I can't exactly fit them there might have to keep them in the middle but I wonder how that might work out. I certainly don't want to use the old speakers as the fronts and the floorstanding ones as surrounds

[wwenze]

"Virtual rear" has long been done by altering the phase of the sound. It was audible in an FPS that I last played... 10 years ago. And that was using stereo speakers.

However knowing it's Yamaha, they may include beamforming technology that is famously used in their soundbars...

So one of two things can happen, and you should test it:

1) Only one speaker is used for one virtual rear speaker
2) Multiple speakers are used to create one virtual rear speaker

And you can easily test it by checking whether sound is coming from the other speakers while you play a test track and only the rear speaker is being played.

If case (1), you can put the rear speaker anywhere you want
If case (2), it is recommended to follow Yamaha's manual

ADD: Also, if your rear speakers are of a way lower quality than your front, I would just use the front speakers and see what virtual speakers features the AVR can enable with a 2.1 system.

[techidiot]

crinkypeanut wrote:

Well here it is!
Edit: dk why it's not showing but here's the link: https://imgur.com/a/OpoEhB5

Yes I did. I spent 4 -5 hours going through all the individual settings and reading through the receiver manual. But honestly abit headache From scenes to which surround program e.g dts neo, neo 6, surround, concert etc. Really hurt my brain after taking in so much info. Though I managed to find some interesting information. I have 2 spare speakers from my mother's CD player set and I saw in the manual that it's possible to run a 5.1 setup with Yamaha's "Virtual Cinema Front", instead of using rear speakers you just put them in the front



I might consider just using them in this way since I have no space behind my sofa because it's against the rear wall. Though, they recommend the surrounds to the sides of the front 2 but I can't exactly fit them there might have to keep them in the middle but I wonder how that might work out. I certainly don't want to use the old speakers as the fronts and the floorstanding ones as surrounds

It's very simple how AVR works.
Depend on source it plays, example Stereo source.
Left and right speaker will have sound.

the Effects like DTS Neo 6 etc. are basically upmix but
these are useful if you are using 5 speakers to create a surround
effect from stereo.

I hardly use effects as it doesn't make the original source
sound that nice.
I won't recommend putting all speakers in front,
it defeat the purpose as well as not accurate.

If you don't have space than just use three speakers.
Later down the road when you have budget than
get a contractor lay wires for the rear speaker.

The rear speaker are for surround as well as positional effect.
Example in a gun fight, if someone shoots from you from the back
you can hear from the back.

If you put every speaker in front, it does not sound accurate.
The virtual rear speaker won't be that accurate for 5.1 tracks
but you can try.

[petetherock]

This thread should serve as an example to newbies entering the surround and HT hobby as a good example of how NOT to do things.

Remember the fundamentals:
- learn the terms
- learn what each speaker does
- learn how to audition
- learn how to allocate your budget
- learn how to position your speakers
- learn how to calibrate

That's the right way. Enough said now, but this thread is a good learning one for others to learn what not to follow.

[benedium]

crinkypeanut wrote:

The Sony Centre is on 2 month pre order last I called to check. It also costs more than what I got my floorstanding speakers for I saw some reviews that weren't too stellar and I thought I might as well get a better one for cheaper. Mixing wise, not sure how that might turn out honestly.



Yea that's the question, not sure whether I'll able to discern

This is the very reason why I told u to consider future center speaker purchase when choosing your left and right speakers haha.

Don't say I naggy... If u mix and match, u may end up spending more when u decide the treble/tweeter or the combo of mids and treble sounds different from side to center.

If u buy the pioneer center and like it, u may end up feeling the need to buy the pioneer floorstanders to replace your sony left/right in future.

Or eventually you may decide after hearing different sound signature that you should just get the sony center. Then u would have spent double instead of saving.

Eh don't waste my good intention leh. I have carefully curated my thoughts and sharing with u based on your need to be thrifty.

Anyway my advice is don't buy center speaker for now. Wait until you started working and have some savings then can buy whatever you like without guilt.

[benedium]

Oh yah crinky maybe I abit paranoid haha but the avr came with ypao calibration microphone right? Just worried display set have missing items.

And also, since you already have a floorstanding speaker, a subwoofer isn'tso critical. It might not be a noticable upgrade as cheaper subwoofers don't go very low anyway. Your floorstanding speaker in your room may already give you some of the sub bass feel. So also can save on that for now.
However, if u still tempted to buy, then at your budget, bigger is better. 10inch ported or 12 inch sealed would be ideal minimum. If idealism is out of budget then wharfedale wh- s8e is the cheapest subwoofer. So cheap that if u gonna buy 2nd hand make sure it's not too old and at most half price. Anyone own this subwoofer before? Can share opinions?

[crinkypeanut]

wwenze wrote:

"Virtual rear" has long been done by altering the phase of the sound. It was audible in an FPS that I last played... 10 years ago. And that was using stereo speakers.

However knowing it's Yamaha, they may include beamforming technology that is famously used in their soundbars...

So one of two things can happen, and you should test it:

1) Only one speaker is used for one virtual rear speaker
2) Multiple speakers are used to create one virtual rear speaker

And you can easily test it by checking whether sound is coming from the other speakers while you play a test track and only the rear speaker is being played.

If case (1), you can put the rear speaker anywhere you want
If case (2), it is recommended to follow Yamaha's manual

ADD: Also, if your rear speakers are of a way lower quality than your front, I would just use the front speakers and see what virtual speakers features the AVR can enable with a 2.1 system.

I see, that makes sense. I was just curious since I had those as spares anyways but it's not like I have alot of space on my tv console either so I might just stick to a 3.1 if I decide to get the center. Thanks for the input

techidiot wrote:

It's very simple how AVR works.
Depend on source it plays, example Stereo source.
Left and right speaker will have sound.

the Effects like DTS Neo 6 etc. are basically upmix but
these are useful if you are using 5 speakers to create a surround
effect from stereo.

Ah I see. I saw some people using the that function for things such as family gatherings where you can just play stereo music through all your speakers just so it's louder and better fills a room with alot of guests.

Quote:

I hardly use effects as it doesn't make the original source
sound that nice.
I won't recommend putting all speakers in front,
it defeat the purpose as well as not accurate.

If you don't have space than just use three speakers.
Later down the road when you have budget than
get a contractor lay wires for the rear speaker.

The rear speaker are for surround as well as positional effect.
Example in a gun fight, if someone shoots from you from the back
you can hear from the back.

If you put every speaker in front, it does not sound accurate.
The virtual rear speaker won't be that accurate for 5.1 tracks
but you can try.

Yep I think I'll give it a try since I have it anyways, if it doesn't sound good then I'll just keep the spare speakers since they don't have much value anyways. Thanks for the input

petetherock wrote:

This thread should serve as an example to newbies entering the surround and HT hobby as a good example of how NOT to do things.

Remember the fundamentals:
- learn the terms
- learn what each speaker does
- learn how to audition
- learn how to allocate your budget
- learn how to position your speakers
- learn how to calibrate

That's the right way. Enough said now, but this thread is a good learning one for others to learn what not to follow.

Time is not on my side and I would love to have been able to do all these. Then again, this isn't my full-time hobby so it doesn't matter all that much, I just wanted a decent setup by getting to know the basics. I don't think most people come into the HT hobby straight away wanting to get immersed and spending mad amounts. The amount of time and effort I've put in seems like what a majority of people might spend and I think that's fine.

If you feel that what I've been doing is wrong then I can't change your mind but I hope you would stop being so passive-aggressive about it. You said you would stop giving inputs since you felt it was a lost cause, in that case you should stop putting out subtle jabs at people you disagree with.

[crinkypeanut]

benedium wrote:

This is the very reason why I told u to consider future center speaker purchase when choosing your left and right speakers haha.

Don't say I naggy... If u mix and match, u may end up spending more when u decide the treble/tweeter or the combo of mids and treble sounds different from side to center.

If u buy the pioneer center and like it, u may end up feeling the need to buy the pioneer floorstanders to replace your sony left/right in future.

Or eventually you may decide after hearing different sound signature that you should just get the sony center. Then u would have spent double instead of saving.

I highly doubt it would be that much of a factor for me. I won't be that critical of it to the point that I might hear the minute differences and let that drive me to the point of spending money that I don't have on newer speakers. Like you've said before, "you believe in the science", likewise I'm asking about this pioneer centre based on it's quality as a center. I've seen more favourable reviews for it than the Sony's and it's cheaper as well. Given that the sound signature differences might not even be that perceptible to me or might even be negligible even if I could tell the difference, I'm thinking it might be worth getting it. Of course, I might be wrong and it could really be a huge difference in signature to the point I could hear it

I think more importantly, I'm just looking at it for the functionality of having a center, e.g increased vocal presence and maybe higher quality vocals in this aspect, but ya I'm considering whether it's worth it.

Quote:

Eh don't waste my good intention leh. I have carefully curated my thoughts and sharing with u based on your need to be thrifty.

Anyway my advice is don't buy center speaker for now. Wait until you started working and have some savings then can buy whatever you like without guilt.

I wanted to just get it out of the way since this deal is available now haha. I don't think I'll be invested enough into HT as a hobby to even "find something I like" by learning that much more about it. I definitely won't be splurging enough to have to consider saving a big amount for it either

benedium wrote:

Oh yah crinky maybe I abit paranoid haha but the avr came with ypao calibration microphone right? Just worried display set have missing items.

And also, since you already have a floorstanding speaker, a subwoofer isn'tso critical. It might not be a noticable upgrade as cheaper subwoofers don't go very low anyway. Your floorstanding speaker in your room may already give you some of the sub bass feel. So also can save on that for now.
However, if u still tempted to buy, then at your budget, bigger is better. 10inch ported or 12 inch sealed would be ideal minimum. If idealism is out of budget then wharfedale wh- s8e is the cheapest subwoofer. So cheap that if u gonna buy 2nd hand make sure it's not too old and at most half price. Anyone own this subwoofer before? Can share opinions?

Yep it came with all the items in the box. Subwoofer wise I'm still thinking about it but I imagine it's a bigger priority than the center, I hope to hear more about the wharfedale too

[benedium]

Yup u right. I agree, subwoofer probably more important than center speaker. After u get that, still can play around for awhile with positioning and EQ. Those factors are supposed to make the most difference.