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55inch TV + 3.1/2.1 Setup Recommendations

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Old 27-12-2020, 11:40 PM   #61
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No budget dun go for full setup. Either slowly bit by bit or save up 1 time whack.
Don't think AVR + 2.1 is "full setup" ley
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Old 27-12-2020, 11:46 PM   #62
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Yes usually they bundle is normal speaker wire.
Good quality speaker cable depending on distance can cost
est. around $100.
Wallet pain, I just need DECENT speaker wire, don't need good quality one haha.


Think like others mention if you have tight budget than just
buy the Edifier 2.1.
Managed your expectations as good speaker and AVR does not
cost $500.

Spending more doesn't mean no good, it's the quality and build of the speaker thus some AVR and speaker are much costly than others.
FYI Mica speakers are studio monitor, these speakers are intended
for professional use with mixer/sound interface not AVR.



I would you rather just buy the Pioneer HTS-076:



Around $599 than later on change to Bookshelf speaker when you have budget.
So do managed your expectations, $500 is very difficult to get a decent bookshelf speaker and AVR.
Like I said earlier I do think that having an AVR would be optimal cus of HDMI Arc and I can connect all my devices easily. Some of the options so far suggested seems like not bad might be able to fit within $500 - $700 like if I got the Neumi and the x550bt used. I really don't want to get the 5.1 setup and then change the speakers. I just want a decent set of speakers then maybe if want upgrade in future just get a centre. Rather not get one set then change speakers again, not made of money bruH, not to mention I will never use the other 2 surround speakers which is just wasting it.
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Old 27-12-2020, 11:50 PM   #63
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Receiver looks perfectly fine, but the speakers.... 3 inches and a 6 inch / 120w sub... aiyo, really shouldn't waste money like that. The speakers/sub will not be able to push sufficient air to sound good. Might as well buy Creative or Edifier speakers and save the money.

*and no way to eq for the room. Only suitable for people who really, really hate the hassle and just want all in one, fire and forget.
How important is room correction or eq really, cus it seems like it's a big factor in your decision making. Mind explaining?
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Old 27-12-2020, 11:51 PM   #64
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Just to add, if TS wants Pioneer avr for some reason, can consider this second hand vsx-524, at least got built in 'MCACC' room correction, though I have no personal experience of the quality and customizability (can eq specific frequencies?) of Pioneer's solution. Not ex also. Just make sure really got the microphone included.

https://www.carousell.sg/p/pioneer-5...24-1056058188/
Doesn't look too bad for my purposes. I had only considered the Denon because it was what was recommended so far and seems like the brand is well recognized. I don't mind if this serves the same purpose and cheaper also
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Old 27-12-2020, 11:53 PM   #65
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Wah TS so lucky got the whole gang here helping him out LOL. It really is Xmas time

Merry Xmas and HAPPY New Year guys!
Indeed, I'm thankful for all the advice so far from everyone here

[QUOTE] Yes, will pm TS to send me some Xmas angbao from his savings later. ]

Spend so much on ht gonna go broke already no money to send angbao unforunately
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Old 27-12-2020, 11:55 PM   #66
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Speaker wire can buy those cut out length at sim lim tower, use "16 gauge awg" wire if you are in shorter distance and "14" below is for longer distance..
The shop will cut the length you wanna and its cheaper that way..

If you just wanna setup 2.1 either get this s350db or wharfedale set which fit you budget with a used AVR..
So get the wire cut to the length I need and I assume need to add banana plugs on the ends to connect to the speakers rather than bare wire right?
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Old 28-12-2020, 12:06 AM   #67
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What is the benefit of denon x550 vs x250?
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Old 28-12-2020, 01:24 AM   #68
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How important is room correction or eq really, cus it seems like it's a big factor in your decision making. Mind explaining?
A guide I wrote in the past. Nowadays people use the PEACE equalizer and also the video has been updated for less piak piak so use that one that is already posted.
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/h...r-5856484.html

How important? Well if you play the video and at certain notes it becomes way louder, you know you have a problem that needs to be fixed. I mean, can you hear the difference between cables or MP3 or amplifier? Versus can you hear the effect of your room?

How important objectively and financially speaking? Say you spent $1000 for speakers to get the most accurate speakers that has the perfect frequency response in an anechoic chamber. Then you bring it into your room and the frequency response spikes up and down by +-10dB. What is the reason you paid $1000 for the speakers again?

Below is an example of anechoic (from manufacturer) vs in room (my room). Notice the high frequencies are matching so I presumed that the manufacturer measurements are trustable.
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/h...t-6371473.html

Subjectively, such spikes make all the bass drums sound similar. They also ruin the bass melody since some notes sound louder than others.

Also, the room is the main reason why people say their speakers "have uncontrolled bass" or "too much bass". If you manage to find your speaker's anechoic frequency response measurements, 99 out of 100 times it doesn't even have enough bass to stay flat down to 20Hz. (It would have been massively popular in the professional scene if it could.) And majority of the time it would be quite smooth without any peaks. All the extra uncontrol is coming from the room.

So subjectively, once you fix it, garbled up bass passages becomes clean, and bass melody also becomes much nicer.



Oh yea, if you get an AVR, it does it for you, assuming your AVR is expensive enough to have room correction. But do note that not all EQ systems are the same. Like this Onkyo one reviewed doesn't seem to do anything.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/f...-review.12991/

While this Denon one did.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/f...-review.12746/

But of course please try to find more reviews by others.

Dirac is still the most powerful if measurements can be believed.
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Last edited by wwenze; 28-12-2020 at 01:35 AM..
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Old 28-12-2020, 12:03 PM   #69
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Wah alot of cheem terms that I don't understand haha, you show me all these graphs I also blur . My living room is quite small so there isn't really a problem with sitting in front of the speakers for Micca but I will take what you said into consideration for the Micca. Maybe eli5 abit I don't really like the look of the JBL but will consider the Neumi.


With grilles on, don't think they really look different lei...But sure, actually the Neumi will have more bass.


Sounds like alot of messing around with settings. Honestly I would like to avoid this kind of tuning stuff at such an early stage. I feel like I also won't know what to tune and how to tune it in a manner that would have it sound nice. Feel like when I'm a kid and I cook stuff then just anyhow add ingredients then "wow taste not bad" to the horror of my ahma seeing me adding sugar to her soup

Again, I feel like I wouldn't know what to test for, not exactly an audiophile. I feel audio so subjective it's hard to develop the feel for it at the start unlike other things like PC building which is just like legos. Will take some time to learn what's what I guess
How important is room correction or eq really, cus it seems like it's a big factor in your decision making. Mind explaining?

Haha.... I also come from many years of PC building, then learn about audio.

On a very simple layman level, you can think of soundwaves like the ripples when you throw a pebble into a pond. In a room, the ripples bounce off walls and enter your ears. Of course, one is water molecules moving up and down (vertically), the other is air molecules (moving horizontally and pushing each other). No air means no sound.



So when you play a single test tone like the video earlier, the speaker moves back and forth very quickly to push/vibrate the air a certain number of times per second, aka at a certain frequency. Then your eardrums kanna the vibrating air and vibrates at the same frequency also, hence you hear the same tone.



When you 'turn up the volume', the speaker will move the same number of times per second, but the actual back and forth distance travelled increases. So more air is pushed towards you and you hear louder volume.

And then there's a physical limit to how much air a small speaker can push at you, because the surface area of the speaker cone is what is contacting and pushing the air. Imagine my hand pushing air in your face, vs Buddha's God hand pushing air.



Hence the subwoofer with its larger diameter is needed to properly push enough air and let you hear the right loudness.

Then we come back to the water ripples again. The general problem is when ripples bounce off walls and contact other ripples, there'll be parts where the water molecules gets 'double' the energy (ripples rise higher), and parts where the energy gets cancelled out (rising ripple hits a dropping ripple).

Bass frequencies have really long wavelengths. A complete wavelength for 40hz tone is 8.5 metres (paiseh, you'll have to google wavelengths / sine waves). In a typical 2-3m room, the wavelength will hit the wall before it's complete and gets reflected back to itself. Depending on the wavelength, the merging will result in more, equal or reduced energy (in the air molecules).

For those frequencies that merge and result in more energy, it means that frequency will sound waaay louder. This (boomy bass) will overwhelm your ears, similar to how you cannot hear clearly the music in a car when the engine is too loud. The moment you stop the car, music becomes clear again.

So to avoid boomy bass, those (resonant) frequencies that sound louder, needs to be reduced so that when their wavelength merges, the energy is lower. And unless you have a room that's 10-20 metres wide, you'll encounter the same issues, especially when you turn the volume up and try to enjoy your favorite Michael Bay movie like in theatres.

Like what wwenze said, you're going to dump a few hundred to a thousand on your audio system. You may not hear the problem if you only go with bookshelf speakers, but if you want proper bass with a sub, this problem WILL appear.

Last time tweaking audio is like a lot of magical methods. Everyone has a different way. But now room correction software is finally user friendly enough and cheap enough for non technical people like myself. In this day and age, it really doesn't make sense to get amps without room correction, and then turn around and waste money to stick foam on their walls or buy bass traps that cost hundreds of dollars. Waste money because they don't understand the core problems first. Trust me, I wanted to do so too at some point in time. Thankfully I got more into learning about room correction.


How does it compare to just getting those foam inserts that angle the speakers upward?
I suppose you have a tv cabinet to put your speakers on? If don't want to spend the money on stands yet, foams are fine. Other cheap alternatives include yoga blocks, chopping boards + rubber feet, or even can be some spoilt speakers.



Doesn't look too bad for my purposes. I had only considered the Denon because it was what was recommended so far and seems like the brand is well recognized. I don't mind if this serves the same purpose and cheaper also
I recommended this because Pioneer was brought up. No idea how effective their room correction is though, so you need to do some googling. In comparison the Audyssey software in Denon is pretty well reviewed, though there still may be certain things particular to 550bt that is not obvious, so do google that.


And of course, personally I prefer to buy second hand because a lot of rich audiophiles in Singapore. But caution is still advised. Be mentally / financially prepared for equipment spoiling shortly after buying. Look for those who have good reviews and track record of selling things.

Last edited by lxXXxl; 28-12-2020 at 01:24 PM..
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Old 28-12-2020, 12:13 PM   #70
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This is to calibrate the speaker according to your room acoustics
etc. for best sounding.
Take note room EQ need 5.1 speaker not 2.
Audyssey should have no issues with only 2.1 speakers.
https://audyssey.zendesk.com/hc/en-u...2-1-listening-
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Old 28-12-2020, 01:01 PM   #71
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Just realised why TS wanted x550 model. Cos x250 does not have audyssey room correction. No wonder selling cheap for only $325 on Lazada.

Anyway saw on carousell someone listed x550 for $300 last week.

Last edited by benedium; 28-12-2020 at 01:03 PM..
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Old 28-12-2020, 01:10 PM   #72
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BTW which TV did you get in the end?
Take note certain brand TV HDMI ARC may not work
with certain AVR.
Soundbar for what I know most TV can work without any issue.
Getting a Xiaomi Mi 4s 65inch.

Take note AVR is not plug and play except for the model I shared.
Denon AVR-X550BT to get the best sound you have to run
room EQ.

This is to calibrate the speaker according to your room acoustics
etc. for best sounding.
Take note room EQ need 5.1 speaker not 2.

AVR can run 2 speakers but you won't get the most out from it.
Which is why I think for you just forgo the HDMI ARC, just focus
on something decent within your budget.

Like the Edifier 2.1 bookshelf speaker or 2.0 bookshelf speaker.

I don't think any major difference except x550 have one more sub out.
I have no comments regarding this budget receiver cuz it uses
spring clip.

Some bookshelf speaker uses binding post but not spring clip so there is no need for banana plug since 550bt.
Budget receiver uses spring clip while mid-range etc. uses binding post.

Binding post secures the cables so better connection than spring clip.
Anyway TS objective is not to spend too much money so managed your expectations.

I still suggest you buy something decent, when you more than budget than
buy a AVR receiver.

Edifier R1280DB - $14X

Edifier S350DB 2.1 - $3XX-$4XX


Get either one than when you more budget than get a AVR.
FYI recommendation I shared, I have tested them before I recommend
Except soundbar as soundbar have new models almost every year
so not possible for me to test them.

I don't recommend speakers which I have not heard/played before.
I think after thinking about it HDMI Arc is more important to me than the increase in sound quality. Part of using a tv setup is also the convenience of use, and it's easier for my family members like my parents to use this way also. I know you have been repeating thousand over times that I just forgo the AVR and HDMI Arc but the convenience is more important for me so I won't be going that route. Would be great if you could suggest some other passive speakers to go with a budge avr like the x250bt or x550bt
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Old 28-12-2020, 01:12 PM   #73
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Getting a Xiaomi Mi 4s 65inch.






I think after thinking about it HDMI Arc is more important to me than the increase in sound quality. Part of using a tv setup is also the convenience of use, and it's easier for my family members like my parents to use this way also. I know you have been repeating thousand over times that I just forgo the AVR and HDMI Arc but the convenience is more important for me so I won't be going that route. Would be great if you could suggest some other passive speakers to go with a budge avr like the x250bt or x550bt
Yes i agree with u TS. Especially for other family members. But like I said dont buy x250bt. It has no audyssey microphone room correction. Go ahead aim for x550bt whether u can find discount new one or used with receipt/warranty from carousell.

AV One selling x550bt on Lazada for $474 free delivery.
https://s.lazada.sg/s.ZatmH

Last edited by benedium; 28-12-2020 at 01:23 PM..
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Old 28-12-2020, 01:23 PM   #74
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With grilles on, don't think they really look different lei...But sure, actually the Neumi will have more bass.
I think cus you initially posted the wood version, don't really like that colour but the black one looks the same indeed


Haha.... I also come from many years of PC building, then learn about audio.

On a very simple layman level, you can think of soundwaves like the ripples when you throw a pebble into a pond. In a room, the ripples bounce off walls and enter your ears. Of course, one is water molecules, the other is air molecules. No air means no sound.

So when you play a single test tone like the video above, the speaker moves back and forth very quickly to push/vibrate the air a certain number of times per second, aka at a certain frequency. Then your eardrums kanna the vibrating air and vibrates at the same frequency also, hence you hear the same tone.


When you 'turn up the volume', the speaker will move the same number of times per second, but the actual back and forth distance travelled increases. So more air is pushed towards you and you hear louder volume.

And then there's a physical limit to how much air a small speaker can push at you, because the surface area of the speaker cone is what is contacting and pushing the air. Imagine my hand pushing air in your face, vs Buddha's God hand pushing air.



Hence the subwoofer with its larger diameter is needed to properly push enough air and let you hear the right loudness.

Then we come back to the water ripples again. The general problem is when ripples bounce off walls and contact other ripples, there'll be parts where the water molecules gets 'double' the energy (ripples rise higher), and parts where the energy gets cancelled out (rising ripple hits a dropping ripple).

Bass frequencies have really long wavelengths. A complete wavelength for 40hz tone is 8.5 metres (paiseh, you'll have to google wavelengths / sine waves). In a typical 2-3m room, the wavelength will hit the wall before it's complete and gets reflected back to itself. Depending on the wavelength, the merging will result in more, equal or reduced energy (in the air molecules).

For those frequencies that merge and result in more energy, it means that frequency will sound waaay louder. This (boomy bass) will overwhelm your ears, similar to how you cannot hear clearly the music in a car when the engine is too loud. The moment you stop the car, music becomes clear again.

So to avoid boomy bass, those (resonant) frequencies that sound louder, needs to be reduced so that when their wavelength merges, the energy is lower. And unless you have a room that's 10-20 metres wide, you'll encounter the same issues, especially when you turn the volume up and try to enjoy your favorite Michael Bay movie like in theatres.
Ahh I see. I've had a physics background so I've learned about constructive/destructive interference and resonance but I didn't think it would play such a large part in this, thank you for the lengthy explanation though .
Like what wwenze said, you're going to dump a few hundred to a thousand on your audio system. You may not hear the problem if you only go with bookshelf speakers, but if you want proper bass with a sub, this problem WILL appear.

Last time tweaking audio is like a lot of magical methods. Everyone has a different way. But now room correction software is finally user friendly enough and cheap enough for non technical people like myself. In this day and age, it really doesn't make sense to get amps without room correction, and then turn around and waste money to stick foam on their walls or buy bass traps that cost hundreds of dollars. Waste money because they don't understand the core problems. Trust me, I wanted to do so too at some point in time. Thankfully I got more into learning about room correction.
True, I guess it is worth doing when you put it that way. Earlier techidiot mentioned that these room correction software only work with 5.1 and above setups though

I suppose you have a tv cabinet to put your speakers on? If don't want to spend the money on stands yet, foams are fine. Other cheap alternatives include yoga blocks, chopping boards + rubber feet, or even can be some spoilt speakers.
Yep looks like I'll be getting foam pads then


I recommended this because Pioneer was brought up. No idea how effective their room correction is though, so you need to do some googling. In comparison the Audyssey software in Denon is pretty well reviewed, though there still may be certain things particular to 550bt that is not obvious, so do google that.

And of course, personally I prefer to buy second hand because a lot of rich audiophiles in Singapore. But caution is still advised. Be mentally / financially prepared for equipment spoiling shortly after buying. Look for those who have good reviews and track record of selling things.
Heart pain if just buy then spoil But ya used speakers look like alot better value than new. As for the receiver see if anyone can give anymore inputs on Pioneer or this particular avr?
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Old 28-12-2020, 01:23 PM   #75
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Just realised why TS wanted x550 model. Cos x250 does not have audyssey room correction. No wonder selling cheap for only $325 on Lazada.

Anyway saw on carousell someone listed x550 for $300 last week.
Nice one lah
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