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Old 16-07-2020, 04:56 PM   #31
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Oh another question... hope u guys don't mind... if some speakers are designed for slight toe in only and not on-axis use, would ASR measurements and ratings still directly correlate to actual sound performance?
Yes, they show you a lot of those colour coded measurement lines to tell you how they sound when they are off-axis. Due to my cabinet design, my speakers are being used off-axis too. But Dirac helped increase and decrease the volume of each frequency to help balance out the sound to make it sound as neutrally flat as possible.

Don't forget. Have a listen to all of your top choice of speakers before you make your final purchase. If everything sounds the same, then by all means, you can now decide which speaker you want based on looks, back or front ports and price.
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Old 16-07-2020, 05:01 PM   #32
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U right heheh. Yup heard dynaudio m20 and elac dbr62. Thanks again LiLAsN! Any other recommendations that might measure well around this budget?
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Old 16-07-2020, 05:04 PM   #33
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Dynaudio sound is super tight with very low extension of treble. Maybe I got abit used to the airy sound of my mission lx2 liao so now just need to add greater dose of bass that also blends wells with subwoofer use.
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Old 16-07-2020, 05:16 PM   #34
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Branched off this to avoid OT over at the other chat.
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Old 16-07-2020, 05:18 PM   #35
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Thanks for moving this here Pete
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Old 16-07-2020, 05:23 PM   #36
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I'm always wary of audition at shop because bass and general sound depends a lot on positioning. Your bass at home may be greater because back wall + table + small room + small distance
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Old 16-07-2020, 05:29 PM   #37
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Yah I also learn that shop audition isn't totally reliable. Plus noobs probably remember more outstanding sounding speakers for all the wrong reasons which may not translate into benefits for long term use at home. Thats why the measurements are really more convincing even to noobs.
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Old 16-07-2020, 09:04 PM   #38
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U right heheh. Yup heard dynaudio m20 and elac dbr62. Thanks again LiLAsN! Any other recommendations that might measure well around this budget?
Close to that price I would recommend giving Monitor Audio Silver 50 or 100 and the cheaper Triangle BR03 a try.

Never tried dynaudio or dbr62 but I own a BR02 and Monitor Audio Silver 2, I think in general music listening they are both much more superior to my Debut B6.2, I like having very forward and focused vocals.

I'm always wary of audition at shop because bass and general sound depends a lot on positioning. Your bass at home may be greater because back wall + table + small room + small distance
Agree with this completely, went to alpha audio to audition triangles and it sounded ok, they use quite expensive cambridge audio amp and player, but the layout and room really not ideal.
Speakers quite far from wall i think? But they stack like a dozen pairs of speakers together which probably killed a lot of bass.

Triangles sounded too sharp and bright there, maybe its cuz of the glass entrance. Put at home much much better.
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Old 16-07-2020, 09:34 PM   #39
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Cool. Thanks for sharing guys. Very useful for me cos I am super confused even after hearing so many speakers.

For people like me who are seriously unsure of their own judgement or just plain lazy, authoritative sources with science backing really helps in decision making and provides great after purchase 'peace of mind' heheh.

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Old 16-07-2020, 10:37 PM   #40
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Speaker review/audition should be a comparison - You know how one speaker sounds and you want to change it, so you want to know how speaker B compares to speaker A.

And subjective listening is bad at this. Measurements are consistent.
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Old 16-07-2020, 10:42 PM   #41
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Ok. Am I correct to assume if 2 speakers measure extremely well like almost 99.9% rating according to ASR ratings, they would probably sound the same playing the same content? Or are there other audible factors not included in ASR measurements?
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Old 16-07-2020, 11:00 PM   #42
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TBH the "good speakers" I've heard so far all sound pretty close to each other that I won't be bothered too much using one over the other. Especially after EQ. So the main differences are bass extension and dispersion behavior. And of course max power if that matters. (Although power & bass is like the same thing.) Somebody had asked the question - What is the worst speaker that we can EQ until it sounds good?

Measurements are intended to capture things that even the human ear can't detect or quantify. Distortion below 100dB in the signal would go below 0dB SPL in real life i.e. your room noise is probably louder, but measurement equipment easily catches that.

And even the human ear can be made more accurate with the appropriate test tones: Sine tones to detect distortion, sine sweep to detect frequency variation. I mean, we suddenly have so many posting about "real life" vs structured testing. Well yea the speed of a car on Top Gear racetrack is important, but so are simple tests like 0-100kph and turn radius etc.

We even have methods to amplify those distortions/noise so that our ear can hear that better.

End of the day, what we want to know is, how bad does it sound and how much margin from audibility do we have.

And so far, frequency response is showing to be the most important factor.

Measurements are ever-evolving too. We now have software to generate just the distortion difference signal so you can hear for yourself whether you can hear 0.1% distortion. Spinorama is a 2013 or 2014 creation. And Amir's new 32-tone IMD for speaker is going to be pretty painful to speakers, we'll have to see.
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Old 16-07-2020, 11:07 PM   #43
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Wow cool. Means in future maybe more speaker companies will try to live up to ASRs latest standards. Maybe I should wait before I upgrade speakers. Hope one day speakers that measure like a Genelec can cost $500 a pair.
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Old 17-07-2020, 07:49 AM   #44
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I'm always wary of audition at shop because bass and general sound depends a lot on positioning. Your bass at home may be greater because back wall + table + small room + small distance
So meaning we can’t test products at shop like I can’t decide on 2 amps.
I never hear them before. Only read online for the reviews and tests.
Then the equation we have only 1 variable which is the amp.
Speakers, cables & room will remain same.
Then listen to the sound of both amps produced & select from there.
But after buy Liao and go home hook up, the sound will be different due to room?
I’m planning to use this method to shortlist the amps.
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Old 17-07-2020, 08:17 AM   #45
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You test against another speaker that you know.

Apparently even that can have problem from my own experience in my room, but that's better than nothing.

I often mentioned this in my reviews, that the speakers all sound so close to each other, the positioning actually created a bigger effect.

Last edited by wwenze; 17-07-2020 at 08:19 AM..
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