HWZ Forums

Login Register FAQ Mark Forums Read

Bookshelf Speakers chat

Like Tree5Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 17-07-2020, 10:19 AM   #46
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,408
Means even ASR highest rated speakers may sound very similar to my $300 speakers... only microphone and computer can pick up differences.
This is very sad. Bye bye Adelphi. It was nice knowing u.
benedium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2020, 10:47 AM   #47
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,408
I feel like a veil is lifted. I think i understand what u have been trying to tell us all this time now wwenze. Many of us have been like under a spell. And now I am free!
benedium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2020, 12:12 PM   #48
High Supremacy Member
 
wwenze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 43,388
I can't decide whether that is sarcasm or genuine

At the current performance levels, speakers are "I can hear a difference but I can't conclude whether it is better or not". For good speakers, anyway. (And then we will have the PMC supporters coming in saying that's how it should sound like.)
Without a completely flat frequency response, this is where speakers will be stuck at.

The next level is "I can't hear a difference under some situations". For example, the ability to playback below 40Hz has marginal benefits with most music material. SPL, dispersion i.e. whether you can put this speaker way off-axis or not, these are some other examples.

The next level is "I can't hear a difference under nearly all situations." This is where audio electronics are at right now. Extreme situations where differences can be heard include trying to use a sound card at low output volume with a sensitive IEM.

Then the next level is "I can't hear a difference at all and I still have 20dB worth of headroom to make sure I reeeeeally can't hear a difference", which is where expensive audio electronics are at.

Then there is finally "I know this is going to matter jack sh*t but let's go to the extreme of physics and maths possible because why not".

Speakers below $300 are mostly at "I can hear a difference and it sucks"

Training and learning can increase the point at which "I can hear a difference but I can't conclude whether it is better or not". Check out Harman's "How To Listen" listener training software application

Last edited by wwenze; 17-07-2020 at 12:31 PM..
wwenze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2020, 12:19 PM   #49
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,393
Speakers below $300 are mostly at "I can hear a difference and it sucks"
Rooms in flats below $300k are also at the "I can hear a difference and it sucks" level
lxXXxl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2020, 12:27 PM   #50
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,408
Haha wwenze, I was not being sarcastic. U must remember I will never know as much as u or even lxXXxl so I come to conclusions mostly for my own convenience which is mostly budget related. I imagine at my budget I use a $1k avr, so maybe with that power or quality used on a high end speaker like R3, it will probably not result in differences proportional to the price difference? And then there is the factor of my own hearing and perception. As well as the CMI conditions of my $300k flat as lxXXxl very accurately predicted.

Last edited by benedium; 17-07-2020 at 12:48 PM..
benedium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2020, 12:39 PM   #51
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,408
My friend was gonna spend $8k on a pair of speakers but now I am gonna advise him to just get kef r3. So really not sarcastic. I really felt a veil being lifted and a spell being broken.
benedium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2020, 12:46 PM   #52
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,408
I may still get the elac dbr62 although really hoping the price will drop.
benedium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2020, 12:52 PM   #53
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,408
Oh i have a question... if I get elac dbr62, should I get the dedicated centre speaker or would it be better if I use half a pair of identical dbr62 for center channel. Any advantages or disadvantages other than the low profile dimensions?
benedium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2020, 01:07 PM   #54
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,408
In the meantime wwenze, I have to slowly read and digest what u wrote above. U really are the best. Thanks.
benedium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2020, 01:22 PM   #55
Master Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 3,393
Haha wwenze, I was not being sarcastic. U must remember I will never know as much as u or even lxXXxl so I come to conclusions mostly for my own convenience which is mostly budget related. I imagine at my budget I use a $1k avr, so maybe with that power or quality used on a high end speaker like R3, it will probably not result in differences proportional to the price difference? And then there is the factor of my own hearing and perception. As well as the CMI conditions of my $300k flat as lxXXxl very accurately predicted.
$1K AVR will be tough. Because depending on amp design, it may not have enough power to drive the speak properly. This is why.

Assuming your amp is traditional class AB one. At $1K, each channel of the amp will likely have just 1 pair of mosfet or bjt (many are using bjt). The real problem is the current. The transistor may be rate 100W or 150W, but current is limited to ~15A peak. Its not going to be enough to drive the speaker well at higher volume.

However, some AVRs do allow you to bridge transistors from other channels (becomes a more powerful stereo amp), you will need to check if you AVR allows you to do that.

https://www.whathifi.com/reviews/kef-r3

Looking at the specs quoted by whathifi, its rated 8 ohm so its easier on the amp, but min of 3.2ohm so it will stress the amp at times. 87db is still ok.
Clearnfc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2020, 01:28 PM   #56
Master Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 3,393

Speakers below $300 are mostly at "I can hear a difference and it sucks"
Haha, ok lar.... mai hiam buay pai lar.....

I started out with a pair of AE aegis Evo1.... $300 from SLS a long long time ago.... Pair with with a marantz SR4300.. Already feel the sound sibeh tok kong!! esp. when compared to the logitech PC speakers...
Clearnfc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2020, 01:29 PM   #57
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,408
Thanks for that Clearnfc! But I can't afford Kef R3 haha. Just using it as example.
benedium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2020, 03:36 PM   #58
Senior Member
 
LiLAsN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,766
Interestingly enough, ASR has just revealed a new speaker that beat the KEF R3 in terms of price and with very similar performance. But it can only shine when you have a dedicated subwoofer or else, the performance of this speaker without the subwoofer is way below the KEF R3.

It's the Revel M105. Can't wait for the full review. I was wondering what this speaker was as they were teasing it as TBA (to be announced). So good that ASR isn't slowing down. So with enough patience from us, as they slowly review more, we can see objectively great sounding speakers at our own palatable budget prices. I'm looking forward to the SVS Ultra reviews if they ever come around to reviewing them. Haha.

I may still get the elac dbr62 although really hoping the price will drop.
Someone was selling their Elac DBR62 for $550 on Carousell that time. If only we had managed to convince you then. Haha

Last edited by LiLAsN; 17-07-2020 at 03:42 PM..
LiLAsN is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2020, 04:02 PM   #59
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,408
Yah I saw it also when it popped up on carousell. I really am retarded!!
benedium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2020, 04:11 PM   #60
High Supremacy Member
 
wwenze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 43,388
Still think Neumann looks better
__________________
Everybody is against universal income until COVID-19 came. Then everybody asks for free money.
wwenze is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Important Forum Advisory Note
This forum is moderated by volunteer moderators who will react only to members' feedback on posts. Moderators are not employees or representatives of HWZ. Forum members and moderators are responsible for their own posts.

Please refer to our Terms of Service for more information.


Thread Tools

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On