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Free advice/discussion on buy/sell of Resale flat (Part 6)

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Old 05-06-2013, 12:16 AM   #16
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Hi Vinz, I am very confused about all the changing HDB policy. Your help in answering some of my questions will be very mcuh appreciated.

I am a single singaporean, above 35 years, income >$5000. I understand that each singaporean can buy 2 hdb flat (?). Is there anyway I could purchase a new HDB flat with my mother? She currently co-own a HDB flat with my father (paid off, bought directly from HDB >10 years ago). Thanks for your help.
Mother or parents n u apply?
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Old 05-06-2013, 12:22 AM   #17
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hi vinz,

considering to buy a resale flat without agent.. however, do we need to pay anything to the seller's agent if he is represented by an agent?
No need. Seller's agent is not allow to collect commission from buyer side (regardless whether there is agent representing buyer or not).
given a large number of hdb flat for sale listings online and in newspapers are by agents, how easy is it for us to identify those that we wish to DIY without agents representing us buyers, so we only want to find agents that represent the seller side..?

for example, if i see a listing in newspaper by an agent, but I wish to view/purchase the property DIY without an agent representing the buyer side, how can I make sure to be able to do this without the listing agent/person denying us the chance to view just because we want to DIY and avoid paying any commission
Only way I can think of if you are scared of being deny a chance to even view the flat is to just pretend you are the buyer's agent. Just say you are an agent and want to bring your buyer to view the flat.

You are saying you know how to diy without incurring on commission.

Can you tell us what is the steps? What is the usual price to negotiate downwards if let say a COV of 30k is being requested by the seller?

Agent are not denying a chance to DIY buyers. But if a DIY does not want to reveal anything to anyone, how can the seller or seller's agent know a particular buyer is actually eligible to buy, with the financial means etc. I am sure you wouldn't want to show this to the seller or their agent. (of course if you have a HLE, you can show this)

If the case breakdown due to the ineligibility of the buyer, the seller will be pointing finger at their agent, asking why they even bring that person to view the unit etc. Most of the time the agent's is protecting the seller's interests, but everyone would think an agent is just trying to create problem.

A seller's agent job is to get the highest price for the seller, simple fact.
Many people will blame agent for jacking price high up, but its a high chance a unrealistic price is usually set by a seller and the agent got no choice but to follow the seller's request on this target price.

vinz

Last edited by vinz; 05-06-2013 at 12:24 AM..
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Old 05-06-2013, 12:32 AM   #18
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Hi Vinz, I am very confused about all the changing HDB policy. Your help in answering some of my questions will be very mcuh appreciated.

I am a single singaporean, above 35 years, income >$5000. I understand that each singaporean can buy 2 hdb flat (?).
Each Sporean can own only ONE hdb point at any moment in time. They can sell and buy, and sell and buy resale flat unlimited amount of time.

For BTO as a first timer , it be a clear cut case of just buying at that price given.

For a second BTO, then there is the resale levy which must be paid.

Singles earning less than 5k (age 35yrs and above) can apply for 2rooms BTO in july, and can apply to use HDB loan.

Singles earning more than 5k (age 35yrs and above) can only buy resale HDB flat with bank loan

Is there anyway I could purchase a new HDB flat with my mother? She currently co-own a HDB flat with my father (paid off, bought directly from HDB >10 years ago). Thanks for your help.
Married couple can only own a single flat at any given time. Even if you mother is not an owner, as long as she is married and your dad own the house, your mother is not allowed to go and purchase another flat with you. (unless she is divorced and not related to your dad anymore, but that is a drastic move, isnt it? )

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Old 05-06-2013, 08:24 PM   #19
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No need. Seller's agent is not allow to collect commission from buyer side (regardless whether there is agent representing buyer or not).Only way I can think of if you are scared of being deny a chance to even view the flat is to just pretend you are the buyer's agent. Just say you are an agent and want to bring your buyer to view the flat.

You are saying you know how to diy without incurring on commission.

Can you tell us what is the steps? What is the usual price to negotiate downwards if let say a COV of 30k is being requested by the seller?

Agent are not denying a chance to DIY buyers. But if a DIY does not want to reveal anything to anyone, how can the seller or seller's agent know a particular buyer is actually eligible to buy, with the financial means etc. I am sure you wouldn't want to show this to the seller or their agent. (of course if you have a HLE, you can show this)

If the case breakdown due to the ineligibility of the buyer, the seller will be pointing finger at their agent, asking why they even bring that person to view the unit etc. Most of the time the agent's is protecting the seller's interests, but everyone would think an agent is just trying to create problem.

A seller's agent job is to get the highest price for the seller, simple fact.
Many people will blame agent for jacking price high up, but its a high chance a unrealistic price is usually set by a seller and the agent got no choice but to follow the seller's request on this target price.

vinz
Hi Vinz, so if i see a resale hdb i like and the agent is the seller's agent and i have no agent to represent me. Will he do the paperwork for me too at the same time? Or do i have to do all paperwork myself since i have no agent?
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Old 05-06-2013, 11:59 PM   #20
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Hi Vinz, so if i see a resale hdb i like and the agent is the seller's agent and i have no agent to represent me. Will he do the paperwork for me too at the same time? Or do i have to do all paperwork myself since i have no agent?

Since buyer has no agent, he is expected to do all paperwork, online and off. However, if seller's agent is helpful, he can still guide you along as I supposed it will not be to his interest if you mess it up.

I am a 101% newbie with regard to HDB's rules and such but recently, we bought a flat without any agent. And it saved us a few thousands, enough to buy new aircon and several household appliances. Besides, we bargained hard and smart and the purchase price was sweet Let me tell you it was plain simple and a breeze, just follow the pointers given on HDB's site. If not sure, call the hotline.

A seller's agent is to maximise the price for him.Yet, there are unscrupulous ones blocking you from viewing or withholding your offer to the seller just because you have no agent. Truth is, oft-times seller's agent is in cahoots with his friends or colleagues just to suck out some easy money from an unsuspecting buyer. How could he represent seller's interest by eliminating this DIYer? Wouldn't this DIYer be more prepared to pay higher (if need be) since he saves on agent's fee which can be quite substantial? Wouldn't the seller benefit in a way? I believe such a unethical case can be feedback to CEA.

And I hope some day, most will just DIY. Sorry agents, I am on the consumer side.
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Old 06-06-2013, 01:20 AM   #21
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Hi Vinz, so if i see a resale hdb i like and the agent is the seller's agent and i have no agent to represent me. Will he do the paperwork for me too at the same time? Or do i have to do all paperwork myself since i have no agent?
DIY means really DIY.. I suppose the paperwork is not alot.. you can refer to the guide here

Interior Design Singapore - Curtain & Laminate Flooring Portal - Interior Design Singapore - Curtain & Laminate Flooring Portal

or also the most accurate info is also on HDB website..
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Old 06-06-2013, 11:28 AM   #22
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I am a 101% newbie with regard to HDB's rules and such but recently, we bought a flat without any agent. And it saved us a few thousands, enough to buy new aircon and several household appliances. Besides, we bargained hard and smart and the purchase price was sweet Let me tell you it was plain simple and a breeze, just follow the pointers given on HDB's site. If not sure, call the hotline. And I hope some day, most will just DIY. Sorry agents, I am on the consumer side.
It is good to hear you had manage to go through a fuss free DIY purchase.

Most likely yours is a straight forward case, thus it was "plain simple and a breeze" for you.

I am quite sure some of the questions cannot be answer by the HDB hotline.

eg. seller need some time to purchase another flat, and requested for 90 days to submit for HDB first appointment, is buyer ok with it? If not seller won’t sell to this buyer. If you call hotline, they say its buyers and sellers mutual agreement; they don't care how many days is written there. So what now? You ok to wait 3 months for submission, if not don't buy? But it's your dream home you know...

eg. Seller needs two months extension, call HDB hotline they say it's illegal, but it's your dream home and price is right, how now?

You making it sound like it is such a simple job to be an agent, then why don't HDB make agent redundant and save everyone the money and trouble to engage one?
A seller's agent is to maximise the price for him. Yet, there are unscrupulous ones blocking you from viewing or withholding your offer to the seller just because you have no agent. Truth is, oft-times seller's agent is in cahoots with his friends or colleagues just to suck out some easy money from an unsuspecting buyer. How could he represent seller's interest by eliminating this DIYer? Wouldn't this DIYer be more prepared to pay higher (if need be) since he saves on agent's fee which can be quite substantial?
From personal experience, those who DIY are usually not in tuned with the market.

For seller they expect super high COV, and for buyer they expect a very low price no matter what advise they are given. Of course if they wait long enough or they are lucky, then things do go their way, but how many can say they bought it at a low market price? or sell way above market price?
Wouldn't the seller benefit in a way?
A buyer who insists on diy is trying to save the few thousand dollars (there are some genuine case where they have low budget, which we can understand), so they are less inclined to pay more for a unit.

Please do not go and think that a buyer trying to save money on agent's fee would rather spend it to pay towards the seller asking price!

And usually when they meet a good seller's agent , their negotiating skills are not going to work well on this seasoned agent, so they end up paying more than what they would had even with an agent, just that they didn't know about this at all.

A good agent will make this buyer feel that they had gotten a good deal out of the whole purchase.
I believe such a unethical case can be feedback to CEA.
If agent requested to get commission from both buyer and sellers, do report to CEA so that we have lesser black sheep.

Last edited by vinz; 06-06-2013 at 11:43 AM..
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Old 06-06-2013, 11:37 AM   #23
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Hi Vinz, so if i see a resale hdb i like and the agent is the seller's agent and i have no agent to represent me. Will he do the paperwork for me too at the same time? Or do i have to do all paperwork myself since i have no agent?
Most agent will do the paper work for you.

Of course the financing part etc, you have to sort it out yourself.
If you have doubts, feel free to write to me directly vinz@hotmail.com

Good luck.

-vinz
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Old 12-06-2013, 09:40 PM   #24
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Most agent will do the paper work for you.

Of course the financing part etc, you have to sort it out yourself.
If you have doubts, feel free to write to me directly vinz@hotmail.com

Good luck.

-vinz
Hi Vinz,

Thanks for your reply. If buying resale but not taking any loans, do i have to make payment on 1st appt or 2nd appt?
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Old 13-06-2013, 12:20 AM   #25
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Appeal on MOP after part share

Hi,

My parents and I co-own a HDB since 2005. Parents divorced in 2011, court order my father to sell his 1/3 share to my mother and myself. During divorce proceedings, check with HDB officer pertaining to MOP issue, he advise to do part share to buy over my father share with considerations that we already fulfil MOP, we do not require to fulfil another MOP after part share. Went to first appointment, resale officer told us we must to fulfil another 5 years MOP and refer us to HDB branch office to confirm. The officer who initially told us we do not need to fulfil MOP now said after checking we need to fulfil the new MOP since it part share. So now I couldn't sell the flat in open market and purchase a new flat with my spouse.
Do you think the MOP can be waive if we appeal?
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Old 13-06-2013, 12:27 AM   #26
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Hi Vinz,

Thanks for your reply. If buying resale but not taking any loans, do i have to make payment on 1st appt or 2nd appt?
Pay 5k deposit on signing of the OTP.

If using CPF , HDB officer will freeze your account and allocate the CPF in your existing account to go to your downpayment, stamp fees etc.

If using Cash, will need to settle the cash outstanding within 10days of first appt.

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Old 13-06-2013, 12:31 AM   #27
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Hi,

My parents and I co-own a HDB since 2005. Parents divorced in 2011, court order my father to sell his 1/3 share to my mother and myself. During divorce proceedings, check with HDB officer pertaining to MOP issue, he advise to do part share to buy over my father share with considerations that we already fulfil MOP, we do not require to fulfil another MOP after part share. Went to first appointment, resale officer told us we must to fulfil another 5 years MOP and refer us to HDB branch office to confirm. The officer who initially told us we do not need to fulfil MOP now said after checking we need to fulfil the new MOP since it part share. So now I couldn't sell the flat in open market and purchase a new flat with my spouse.
Do you think the MOP can be waive if we appeal?
You need to appeal, I got no solution on this. Appeal is always on a case by case basis.

Not sure why you need to sell off existing flat in open market now to apply for a "new flat". If apply for BTO, you just need to sell off existing flat when you collect the keys to your BTO flat.

Of course if you are blocked from applying BTO due to yourself not fulfilling this "MOP", then you should really go and appeal.

Do note appeal usually have to be done a few times before you succeed (or give up).

Good luck.

-vinz
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Old 13-06-2013, 12:31 AM   #28
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Any chance in the future that a non studio apartment will cost 5 digit??
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Old 13-06-2013, 12:46 AM   #29
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Any chance in the future that a non studio apartment will cost 5 digit??
Sorry, I seriously do not have the power to see into the future.

The market forces will decide on the pricing, not me.

Please tell us what is a "non studio apartment"?

5 digit is $10,000 to $99,999 which is consider SUPER DUPER cheap in today's context.

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Old 13-06-2013, 12:49 AM   #30
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We have a child now and also intend expand our family, hence plan to buy a bigger flat. If I'm bound by this new 5 years MOP, I couldn't buy any property only after MOP.
Do you think a letter from MP will have higher chance to appeal?
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