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Old 11-09-2019, 09:46 PM   #2491
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In the topic of rental...
“Rental Volumes Down in August; Non-landed Rents Increase as HDB's Decrease”

“Year-on-year, rents rise by 3.0% for non landed”


https://www.srx.com.sg/research/5594...-hdbs-decrease
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Old 11-09-2019, 10:18 PM   #2492
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hey, u r back... the forums was no fun without u.. too quiet.. lolss…

wat I meant is, with the increase in the ceiling cap, PG pricing may follow suit.. not the overall EC pricing.. but then again, monkey see monkey do.. if the next EC dev see PG increase price,what are the chances of them not increasing their price?? we'll find out next year..
If they increase price, doesn't mean people must buy.

Then again, society is weird. When competition for business came over and tried a price war, I increase my fees by 20%. And got more customers instead.

Human psychology is tough.
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Old 11-09-2019, 10:36 PM   #2493
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where will gov get this money to sustain these poor people?
Push private properties prices even higher. Because "EC sure earn", so charge high high and "people sure buy". Let the richer ones pay higher stamp duties and property taxes. Currently at 18% of iras revenue collection for 2018.

A general push of 10% increase in property values will probably help increase it to 19% to 20% I guess. Can fund many more grants.
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Old 11-09-2019, 10:47 PM   #2494
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I have a few questions in mind and was thinking out loud.

1) the intent for raising the ceiling income for bto is to make bto easily available for ordinary folks (so that one would not need to turn to buy resale if exceed income ceiling) or was it meant to signal that future bto is not going to be cheap?

2) increase in bto ceiling inevitably also led to increase in EC ceiling to 16k. For a family with 16k income, are they still considered as sandwich class? They could have easily afford a pc instead of buying EC if gaps between the two are narrowing. Then what’s the point of having EC scheme?

3) by logic, this may give Developers the reason to bid the EC plot higher, thus, it naturally cause PC price to move in tandem. Is this what the govt wants? The last CMs introduced was aimed to moderate the price in property sector, wouldn’t this move contradicts the previous CMs’ intent?

Perhaps any expert can share some insights.
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Old 11-09-2019, 10:50 PM   #2495
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Push private properties prices even higher. Because "EC sure earn", so charge high high and "people sure buy". Let the richer ones pay higher stamp duties and property taxes. Currently at 18% of iras revenue collection for 2018.

A general push of 10% increase in property values will probably help increase it to 19% to 20% I guess. Can fund many more grants.
Lol... I doubt thats the government's intention. Else, they will release all the cooling measures.

Prices goes however high we want. Demand v supply, assuming there is perfect information. In reality, there is no perfect information, and human's psychology and emotions frequently come into play when buying homes. Not everyone makes "rationale" decisions as we learnt in economics.

Supply - the prices developers are willing to sell. This is anchored by their land bid prices, which has formed the basis of the gains in psf prices over the past 2 years.
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Old 11-09-2019, 10:53 PM   #2496
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I have a few thoughts and questions in mind and was thinking out loud.

1) the intent for raising the ceiling income for bto is to make bto easily available for ordinary folks (so that one would not need to turn to buy resale if exceed income ceiling) or was it meant to signal that future bto is not going to be cheap?

2) increase in bto ceiling inevitably also led to increase in EC ceiling to 16k. For a family with 16k income, are they still considered as sandwich class? They could have easily afford a pc instead of buying EC if gaps between the two are narrowing. Then what’s the point of having EC scheme?

3) by logic, this may give Developers the reason to bid the EC plot higher, thus, it naturally cause PC price to move in tandem. Is this what the govt wants? The last CMs introduced was aimed to moderate the price in property sector, wouldn’t this move contradicts the previous CMs’ intent?

Perhaps any expert can share some insights.
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Old 11-09-2019, 11:01 PM   #2497
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For 1), I used to work in an engineering firm. I had a colleague who was getting married after 3 years of work, and had to pay more for a DBSS because he and future spouse income just exceeded the 8k ceiling back then.

Savings wasn't a lot yet, but they did not qualify for HDB.

In the end still no choice, he had to pay more for DBSS. This new policy would have helped him.

Imagine having to pay for house, wedding and potentially a kid or two next. It's not easy if you have housing loan that is too high.

Some couples I know forgo having more kids, or even any kids, because their housing mortgage already so high and they cannot foresee how they can afford.

Then again, what do I really know right? Just my observations of a few couples out of the millions of couples and households out there.
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Old 11-09-2019, 11:08 PM   #2498
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Lol... I doubt thats the government's intention. Else, they will release all the cooling measures.

Prices goes however high we want. Demand v supply, assuming there is perfect information. In reality, there is no perfect information, and human's psychology and emotions frequently come into play when buying homes. Not everyone makes "rationale" decisions as we learnt in economics.

Supply - the prices developers are willing to sell. This is anchored by their land bid prices, which has formed the basis of the gains in psf prices over the past 2 years.
The argument is because developers bought high, that's why they have to sell high and prices will increase.

I must have failed Economics back then. The A probably was fake. I don't remember prices being determined by the supplier only.
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Old 11-09-2019, 11:11 PM   #2499
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For 1), I used to work in an engineering firm. I had a colleague who was getting married after 3 years of work, and had to pay more for a DBSS because he and future spouse income just exceeded the 8k ceiling back then.

Savings wasn't a lot yet, but they did not qualify for HDB.

In the end still no choice, he had to pay more for DBSS. This new policy would have helped him.

Imagine having to pay for house, wedding and potentially a kid or two next. It's not easy if you have housing loan that is too high.

Some couples I know forgo having more kids, or even any kids, because their housing mortgage already so high and they cannot foresee how they can afford.

Then again, what do I really know right? Just my observations of a few couples out of the millions of couples and households out there.
That was what I thought too.
But then again, looking at the property price holistically, there may have some repercussions in other property segment such as EC and PC too.
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Old 11-09-2019, 11:16 PM   #2500
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The argument is because developers bought high, that's why they have to sell high and prices will increase.

I must have failed Economics back then. The A probably was fake. I don't remember prices being determined by the supplier only.
Of course buyers matter too, but in today's market, at least for now, the supply-side is the stronger one.

I am sure you have learnt of market power and the oligopoly market structure where societies welfare is not maximised. The developers are the one with market power (for now). Buyers have no choice but to accept the pricing. A few rich en bloc millionaires attack and the rest will follow suit. Monkey-see, monkey do. Thats how new pricing become a "norm".
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Old 11-09-2019, 11:23 PM   #2501
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Of course buyers matter too, but in today's market, at least for now, the supply-side is the stronger one.

I am sure you have learnt of market power and the oligopoly market structure where societies welfare is not maximised. The developers are the one with market power (for now). Buyers have no choice but to accept the pricing. A few rich en bloc millionaires attack and the rest will follow suit. Monkey-see, monkey do. Thats how new pricing become a "norm".
Game of musical chairs. Buyers only need to accept the pricing if they are very sold by the idea of condo living and yearn heavily to it.
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Old 11-09-2019, 11:29 PM   #2502
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That was what I thought too.
But then again, looking at the property price holistically, there may have some repercussions in other property segment such as EC and PC too.
Likely yes for other segments. My thought is this.

Some group of people who could only buy EC and not HDB can now buy BTO.

Some group of people who could not buy EC can now buy.

Net flow of buyers in this manner.

Those who can qualify for BTO -- more people

Those who cannot qualify BTO but can qualify EC -- same or slightly lesser because 14k to 16k income households probably less households than 12k to 14k households.

Those who don't qualify for EC and BTO -- lesser people


Which mean for the general population, there will be slightly less demand for PCs. This may further add pressure to developers to quickly sell off their units.

Then again, I might be wrong.
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Old 11-09-2019, 11:39 PM   #2503
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Game of musical chairs. Buyers only need to accept the pricing if they are very sold by the idea of condo living and yearn heavily to it.
There are a few thousand people who are displaced by enbloc sales. They are price insensitive and have contributed to thousands of sales at the "new" prices.

I would imagine a different market today, if there were no enbloc sales and all land were sold through government land sales. Without the thousands of enbloc millionaires, will the market be as "good" as it is today?

Demand for condo living is always there. People just have to sacrifice more now to fulfil their desire to stay in condo. The enbloc millionaires are the sole winners.
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Old 12-09-2019, 12:28 AM   #2504
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By now I assume almost all successfully enbloc owners should have gotten their new homes.
The PC market will then be going downhills from
now onwards.
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Old 12-09-2019, 12:39 AM   #2505
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But some say the new sale buyers are mostly enbloc people.
Condo living is nothing new for them or even PC & EC people.

The only condo - yearning people must be hdb people.

Buyers only need to accept the pricing if they are very sold by the idea of condo living and yearn heavily to it.
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