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Old 17-04-2019, 02:44 PM   #661
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for 2nd or 3rd hand props price to plateau or drop make sense based on your explanation. i will study more n decide carefully. quite worrying if it's statistically consistent across e board. means no one would wan to b a 2nd hand or 3rd hand buyer
Case by case basis.
For example, if the first buyer hold the property for more than 20 years, then the 2nd buyer will left with little or no cap gain as the property condition will gets older, more run down, reduced lease etc.
Of cos if the first buyer holds the property until TOP and sell at a small profit, 2nd buyer will still have some room for cap gain.

Ask yourself, why D15 projects such as costa de sol and Côte azur can only transact at 12xxpsf psf to 13xxpsf for so Long and both does not see an increase in resale price even when seaside residence was launched at a much higher psf around 19xx to 20xxpsf?

Another example,
Sunhaven (FH) and savannah (LH) is also around the same era condo and they are just side by side each other, with sunhaven launched just a few years earlier than savannah. Both now stagnated at 8xx to 9xx psf.
Does FH property like sunhaven be better off compared to savannah (LH) in terms of its resale price?
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Old 17-04-2019, 02:53 PM   #662
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Case by case basis.
For example, if the first buyer hold the property for more than 20 years, then the 2nd buyer will left with little or no cap gain as the property condition will gets older, more run down, reduced lease etc.
Of cos if the first buyer holds the property until TOP and sell at a small profit, 2nd buyer will still have some room for cap gain.

The quartz will be a good example, still stagnant at 9xxpsf for many years despite nearby launch like jewel is transacting at 13xxpsf.
Firstly, quartz did appreciate over the past few years. Next, look at the unit sizes. Quartz are mainly 3 bedders, I don't think they have any 1 or 2 bedders. With larger unit sizes as compared to jewel and other newer developments, of course PSF is lower.

If market is really booming, economy is doing well, there is always opportunity to make money from resales.
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Old 17-04-2019, 02:55 PM   #663
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Ask yourself, why D15 projects such as costa de sol and Côte azur can only transact at 12xxpsf psf to 13xxpsf for so Long while both does not see an increase in resale price when seaside residence was launched at 19xx to 2kpsf?
Unit sizes and quantum. Are you able to get 1350 sqft 3-bedder at the new launches? Answer is no.

Also, location.

Last edited by annetyu; 17-04-2019 at 02:58 PM..
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Old 17-04-2019, 03:18 PM   #664
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Firstly, quartz did appreciate over the past few years. Next, look at the unit sizes. Quartz are mainly 3 bedders, I don't think they have any 1 or 2 bedders. With larger unit sizes as compared to jewel and other newer developments, of course PSF is lower.

If market is really booming, economy is doing well, there is always opportunity to make money from resales.
Then let me play the devil.
Why did u sell off your Kovan melody in the first place?
What’s the chance of it appreciating in its resale price further in near future?
Yes, maybe but may not be much due to reduced lease and the state of the wear and tear condition.
U probably knew it as well. That’s y u have your exit plan.
If go by your logic, u should be holding your Kovan melody tight tight and wait for another decade of property boom and sell it off at a much higher profit.
After all, yours is a decent size 3 bedder (1292sqdt), where to find such decent size 3 bedder in current market?
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Old 17-04-2019, 03:20 PM   #665
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Agree on Sunhaven and Savvanah part . I just helped my friend to view Sunhaven a few months back and he just gotten the keys to the unit. I helped him see see and kaypo the unit condition. I’m in civil hence my expertise to check defects etc.
The unit are in bad shape but he insisted on getting the unit and do a full reno on it. Unit tenanted out to single CECA for past 5 years at $1.8k.
We bargained hard but owner use the previous transaction as a benchmark. 2 bedder 990sqft last transacted at 970k. So we just up a bit by 3k, to 973k. Initial asking price was 999k.

I Guess that’s the norm for freehold prop, use previous transaction to up the price a bit. Sunhaven are quieter due to Lower number of units. As usual, my Friend Die Die wants Freehold. So Sunhaven lo. Friend is a bachelor as well.


Case by case basis.
For example, if the first buyer hold the property for more than 20 years, then the 2nd buyer will left with little or no cap gain as the property condition will gets older, more run down, reduced lease etc.
Of cos if the first buyer holds the property until TOP and sell at a small profit, 2nd buyer will still have some room for cap gain.

Ask yourself, why D15 projects such as costa de sol and Côte azur can only transact at 12xxpsf psf to 13xxpsf for so Long and both does not see an increase in resale price even when seaside residence was launched at a much higher psf around 19xx to 20xxpsf?

Another example,
Sunhaven (FH) and savannah (LH) is also around the same era condo and they are just side by side each other, with sunhaven launched just a few years earlier than savannah. Both now stagnated at 8xx to 9xx psf.
Does FH property like sunhaven be better off compared to savannah (LH) in terms of its resale price?

Last edited by 1993newbie; 17-04-2019 at 03:24 PM..
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Old 17-04-2019, 03:35 PM   #666
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Yes, if first buyer holds property till TOP and sell it off to 2nd buyer, 2nd buyer still have chance to earn abit. Take for example my neighbour in Parc Rosewood. A bachelor Half Jap, Half Chinese SG. He bought a one bedder subsale for 588k.

He just dispose off the unit few months back for 650k. En cash out and now he’s settling down back in Japan.

Parc rosewood, 506sqft.
First owner(2012) > $483k
Second owner(2014,TOP) > $588k
Third owner (2019) > $650k

Case by case basis.
For example, if the first buyer hold the property for more than 20 years, then the 2nd buyer will left with little or no cap gain as the property condition will gets older, more run down, reduced lease etc.
Of cos if the first buyer holds the property until TOP and sell at a small profit, 2nd buyer will still have some room for cap gain.

Ask yourself, why D15 projects such as costa de sol and Côte azur can only transact at 12xxpsf psf to 13xxpsf for so Long and both does not see an increase in resale price even when seaside residence was launched at a much higher psf around 19xx to 20xxpsf?

Another example,
Sunhaven (FH) and savannah (LH) is also around the same era condo and they are just side by side each other, with sunhaven launched just a few years earlier than savannah. Both now stagnated at 8xx to 9xx psf.
Does FH property like sunhaven be better off compared to savannah (LH) in terms of its resale price?
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Old 17-04-2019, 03:38 PM   #667
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Yes, if first buyer holds property till TOP and sell it off to 2nd buyer, 2nd buyer still have chance to earn abit. Take for example my neighbour in Parc Rosewood. A bachelor Half Jap, Half Chinese SG. He bought a one bedder subsale for 588k.

He just dispose off the unit few months back for 650k. En cash out and now he’s settling down back in Japan.

Parc rosewood, 506sqft.
First owner(2012) > $483k
Second owner(2014,TOP) > $588k
Third owner (2019) > $650k
Yes agree. The holding timeline is important. That’s what I’m trying to illustrate here.
So u as a second time buyer still can reap some profit.
Imagine if your first buyer hold on Parc rosewood for 20 years and sell it to u at market rate, would u buy? You probably not because u know by then, Parc rosewood probably has reached its cap and it be better off for u to look elsewhere.
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Old 17-04-2019, 03:51 PM   #668
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Then let me play the devil.
Why did u sell off your Kovan melody in the first place?
What’s the chance of it appreciating in its resale price further in near future?
Yes, maybe but may not be much due to reduced lease and the state of the wear and tear condition.
U probably knew it as well. That’s y u have your exit plan.
If go by your logic, u should be holding your Kovan melody tight tight instead.
After all, yours is a decent size 3 bedder (1292sqdt), where to find such decent size 3 bedder in current market?
I am not disputing the fact that older condos will sell for less. Definitely, if someone buys a 20 year old condo, he has to factor in the costs for renovation.
However, if the property market as a whole is doing good, resale prices should rise as well. If only prices of new launches are rising, then it is likely that the developers are the ones who are pushing the prices up.

Another factor as I have mentioned - unit sizes. You can't expect Kovan Melody to go for $1,500psf. That would mean a 1,292sqft unit will go for close to 2m! Reason why affinity at serangoon north can move at that crazy psf pricing is because their 3 bedders are less than 1,000sqft! Just to side track.. the location of Affinity's showflat is very, very misleading. Serangoon central and serangoon north is big, big difference.

Regarding why I sold my unit, given my age, I don't need that many investment properties anymore. What's the point of leaving so much behind, better to free up the cash and spend on what I like. Recently, a similar 1,292 sqft unit went for over 1.5m, 100k more than what I sold for. Who would have expected those crazy land bids by developers?

Also, I don't have the time to wait for another decade of property boom. And I think a boom like what we have seen the past 2 decades is not going to happen anymore.

Last edited by annetyu; 17-04-2019 at 03:57 PM..
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Old 17-04-2019, 03:52 PM   #669
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Yes agree. The holding timeline is important. That’s what I’m trying to illustrate here.
So u as a second time buyer still can reap some profit.
Imagine if your first buyer hold on Parc rosewood for 20 years and sell it to u at market rate, would u buy? You probably not because u know by then, Parc rosewood probably has reached its cap and it be better off for u to look elsewhere.
With enbloc, seems like condo prices will never depreciate. 40+ year old Laguna park and lagoon view prices have rosen sharply in 2017/18, owners still expecting to reap handsome profits. Haha..
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Old 17-04-2019, 03:57 PM   #670
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I am not disputing the fact that older condos will sell for less. Definitely, if someone buys a 20 year old condo, he has to factor in the costs for renovation.
However, if the property market as a whole is doing good, resale prices should rise as well. If only prices of new launches are rising, then it is likely that the developers are the ones who are pushing the prices up.

Another factor as I have mentioned - unit sizes. You can't expect Kovan Melody to go for $1,500psf. That would mean a 1,292sqft unit will go for close to 2m! Reason why affinity at serangoon north can move at that crazy psf pricing is because their 3 bedders are less than 1,000sqft! Just to side track.. the location of Affinity's showflat is very, very misleading. Serangoon central and serangoon north is big, big difference.

Regarding why I sold my unit, given my age, I don't need that many investment properties anymore. What's the point of leaving so much behind, better to free up the cash and spend on what I like. Recently, a similar 1,292 sqft unit went for over 1.5m, 100k more than what I sold for. Who would have expected those crazy land bids by developers?
I Remember a recent example I quoted based on my colleague’s experience. He sold off his 2 bedder Kovan melody at 1.08mil (market rate) a few years back. After a good 3-4 years has passed, Kovan melody 2 bedder is still stagnated at 1.04mil. (In fact Transact at lower price based on last transaction). Ain’t this a good example?
How would his buyer feel after knowing his property price remain stagnated or becomes even lower after 3-4 years has passed?
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Old 17-04-2019, 04:14 PM   #671
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With enbloc, seems like condo prices will never depreciate. 40+ year old Laguna park and lagoon view prices have rosen sharply in 2017/18, owners still expecting to reap handsome profits. Haha..
Before the last CM, there’s still good reason to go for old resale condo.
But in current situation, quite tough Liao. Sigh. Especially for those big big sites.
This is something I’m worried about and not sure if property investment is still one of the lucrative option in future.
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Old 17-04-2019, 04:41 PM   #672
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Agree on Sunhaven and Savvanah part . I just helped my friend to view Sunhaven a few months back and he just gotten the keys to the unit. I helped him see see and kaypo the unit condition. I’m in civil hence my expertise to check defects etc.
The unit are in bad shape but he insisted on getting the unit and do a full reno on it. Unit tenanted out to single CECA for past 5 years at $1.8k.
We bargained hard but owner use the previous transaction as a benchmark. 2 bedder 990sqft last transacted at 970k. So we just up a bit by 3k, to 973k. Initial asking price was 999k.

I Guess that’s the norm for freehold prop, use previous transaction to up the price a bit. Sunhaven are quieter due to Lower number of units. As usual, my Friend Die Die wants Freehold. So Sunhaven lo. Friend is a bachelor as well.
Two bedder tenanted at 1.8k quite jialat leh.
No wonder the owner wanted to sell.
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Old 17-04-2019, 04:47 PM   #673
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Loyalty price I Guess hahah. Owner bought at $685k in Year 2000.

Yea his unit lowest 2 bedder rent in the development. Tenancy ending next month, after that all out reno and become a bachelor pad.

Two bedder tenanted at 1.8k quite jialat leh.
No wonder the owner wanted to sell.
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Old 17-04-2019, 04:50 PM   #674
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Yea 20 years old condo to me no no la. Sure maintenance up Liao. Would buy other location definitely. For now just Hope price up when Thomson line open. One bus stop away or 7 mins walk from side gate to new mrt exit, not too bad.

Yes agree. The holding timeline is important. That’s what I’m trying to illustrate here.
So u as a second time buyer still can reap some profit.
Imagine if your first buyer hold on Parc rosewood for 20 years and sell it to u at market rate, would u buy? You probably not because u know by then, Parc rosewood probably has reached its cap and it be better off for u to look elsewhere.
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Old 17-04-2019, 04:56 PM   #675
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Yea 20 years old condo to me no no la. Sure maintenance up Liao. Would buy other location definitely. For now just Hope price up when Thomson line open. One bus stop away or 7 mins walk from side gate to new mrt exit, not too bad.
And here u go, this is probably your exit plan after all these infrastructure are completed.
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