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50 to 65" LED / OLED / LCD TV discussion thread III [consolidated]

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Old 01-08-2020, 08:52 AM   #241
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I have done up two dedicated HT over the years in my houses. Below is my current HT done 10 years ago



There are a lot of information about TVs in the internet and the two most useful resource is HDTVtest by Vincent Teoh and the rtings website.

It is important to understand how they review especially Vincent Teoh who is a Oled supporter. If you listen carefully about how he suggest introducing some ambient light to control the blooming in Qleds, you understand that he reviews his TVs in a perfect light controlled environment.

If you use your TV in the living room, and 99% of living rooms are bright and airy, the result will be VERY different. There is not such thing as introducing ambient light when you have ambient light all over....

In this use case, brightness and reflection handling is far more important than black level. The rtings website shows much more measurement data which I feel gives good information and allows you to choose which specs matters to you.

If you watch SDR content a lot in a living room, do you want to pay for more better black levels and getting 450nits output with a Oled vs a qled which can dump 1000 nits for SDR content + 6 times less direct reflection?

As I said many times, if you are looking a TV for a dedicated HT room like how Vincent Teoh reviews TV, get a Oled for sure.
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Old 01-08-2020, 09:26 AM   #242
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Nice room, very neat and high WAF.
Controlled lighting is good for all HT enthusiasts.
Adding a small T5 under your TV or an LED strip is also a good idea for all TVs. Your eyes will thank you for it.
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Old 01-08-2020, 09:31 AM   #243
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Nice room, very neat and high WAF.
Controlled lighting is good for all HT enthusiasts.
Adding a small T5 under your TV or an LED strip is also a good idea for all TVs. Your eyes will thank you for it.
any nice LED strip to recommend?

Sent from Samsung Note 10 + using GAGT
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Old 01-08-2020, 09:35 AM   #244
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any nice LED strip to recommend?

Sent from Samsung Note 10 + using GAGT
Just visit lazada or other online stores, plenty. See if the USB port on your TV can support it so you don't have to turn it on and off yourself.
Many TVs turn off their USB ports when you turn off the TV.
But check how much current it can support.
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Old 01-08-2020, 10:07 AM   #245
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There are a lot of information about TVs in the internet and the two most useful resource is HDTVtest by Vincent Teoh and the rtings website.

It is important to understand how they review especially Vincent Teoh who is a Oled supporter. If you listen carefully about how he suggest introducing some ambient light to control the blooming in Qleds, you understand that he reviews his TVs in a perfect light controlled environment.
Yes, have been watching his videos to catch up with TV tech in the last 5 years. A very brief conclusion is that nothing much has changed in terms of tech but software wise a lot of improvements.

Vincent compared auto-blooming effects in Samsung QLED with Sony. Sony handles it much better.

The latest Panasonic HZ2000 heat sinks sounds very good to tackle burn in issues. But locally only HZ1000 is available?
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Old 01-08-2020, 01:54 PM   #246
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How does Vincent reviewing the high end TVs that are mostly covered with OLEDs from the other top manufacturers makes him an OLED supporter when you are so blind (pun intended ), you can't even see that he is aiming for a perfect TV. That is his intention. It benefits all of us if we get a perfect TV. So just because Samsung is the only TV (in the UK market) that is still using a VA panel while the rest use OLED for the high end TVs, it makes him an OLED supporter?

He reviews all the TVs equally. Like RTings. Correct. RTings being even more technical with measurements. I love it too.

With 1000 nits for SDR, you are literally skewing the colour accuracy by 10 times. Very unrealistic. And you will only ruin it for yourself when watching in HDR and the colours vary even more from the darkest scenes to the lightest scene because you are used to everything looking bright; thus shortening your contrast ratio.

As for worrying about bright room, the reflections is mostly because of what screen filter they use on the glass.
If being in a bright room is truly a concern for OLED, time to throw away all your flagship phones then. All of them use OLED. I'm sure you can't see any text and videos and games in a normal bright room too since OLED is so dark.

A simple way to test how 350 nits is overly bright is just use a PC monitor or your old SDR TV. Is the brightness bright enough in your room during the day? Yes? Then no issues with OLED TVs as well.
Not say "my TV can go higher than you" and then proceeds to watching TV with brightness cranked up to 100 and having all the colours look overly vibrant and look cartoonish.

Considering you'd even ask someone to go 10x what the video mastered in SDR is supposed to look, clearly EOTF curve doesn't mean anything to you. Similarly why you'd go with a soundbar for Atmos and call it a great Atmos experience. No standards whatsoever.

Perhaps, before blabbing away on a TV that you never even owned, give an OLED TV a try. I had a 4K HDR LCD TV too prior to having an OLED. And I never want to go back to backlight blooming and especially the local dimming halo nonsense ever again. Waiting for a PC monitor that has OLED as well or an even better technology than OLED. That's my 2 cents having OWNED both TVs at the same time.

PS. I am not so blinded (pun) that I only support 1 company like Samsung for everything. I look for whichever offers the best in a particular area in the industry. And not like go for Samsung for everything and then come here and say an actual non-biased reviewer is an OLED supporter.
PS, My 2010 Samsung 1080p LED TV has a very glossy screen and reflects my window very poorly. Bright screen helps or I can just get curtains like everybody else that I can just close and open to adjust the room's brightness.

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Old 01-08-2020, 02:26 PM   #247
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Ok... most of your post don’t really make sense but I am too tired to correct them.
Just Two points, I called Vincent Teoh as an oled supporter because if he buys a tv, he will buy an oled because he knows it is better for his needs. I am not saying he is not objective or biased. Don’t be so defensive.
Second, the latest gear I bought is Sony x9500h and the Sony st5000 soundbar because I found the Samsung q70r soundbar I bought earlier bad for music. If I can tell it is bad for music, trust me it’s bad because I don’t have golden ears. I installed the q70r on my rental apartment instead.
I have said it so many times, if I have to buy a tv for a light controlled ht room, I might choose the oled. I definitely won’t choose the qled. I probably will choose neither and go for size, like a 3k+ 82” lcd tv.

Honestly, 99% of the people don't care about brands. I don't think you care about brands, I sure hell don't. What I care about it getting the best TV for my needs my budget can buy... I think most of us here feel the same way.

For the sake of others, I will touch a bit about color. Color and brightness are two Related but different things. but you can have good color even when you turn up the brightness. That is why people calibrate screens. Photography is my other hobby and below are the pictures I have taken. That is why I value color accuracy too.

Your point about SDR monitor being bright enough for the day... Let me tell you I was using the Dell UP3216Q monitor in my study before I got the q80r. It is a $2k 32" computer monitor with very good colors. After I swap it with the q80r, I just realise how much dimmer it is compared to the q80r. Because the photos below in my link just look so much more vibrant when I show them at full screen on the q80r (windows switches the tone mapping when you go full screen on chrome). I am very familiar with my photos and how they look and I can tell you they look VERY DIFFERENT on the q80r, especially the backlight photos. Is the HDR monitor showing the photographers original intent? No, as I edited the photos on my 32" SDR monitor. Which version do I prefer? The HDR monitor by far.

http://www.keehian.com/gallery/

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Old 01-08-2020, 03:24 PM   #248
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Ok must order Liang Teh for a hot weekend now 😉
IMO
OLED screens offer the best picture quality right now, prices, burn in and other factors not withstanding
Especially if youíre willing to light control your viewing room
BUT
All panels will benefit from such a dim room as it does help with contrast
However most better panels will be ok in an average living room that doesnít have the sun blasting into the room or reflecting off the screen, or where thereís a super bright lamp pointing at the screen
So unless itís a really basic panel with a very poor contrast and lumens performance, youíll be fine
But if you watch a diet of mainly blu ray or 4k discs like me - havenít watch tv in weeks, youíll appreciate the extra nits
However Iíll happily trade some brightness for real estate.
If I can get a >80Ē OLED panel for under 10k Iíll be pretty interested
The reality is different, so I went for Sonyís rival which it was touting as a LED panel you could use in bright and dark rooms with very decent contrast. Not OLED mind you but enough blacks.
It wasnít cheap but it was far cheaper than the 77Ē OLED I was looking at

So see you own needs. Eg someone who is very concerned about burn in and watches a lot of FTA shows with a ticker tape, you should see if OLED should really be your first choice.
My next panel could be a big OLED if the prices come down enough

Until then Iím really satisfied with what I see on my professionally calibrated LED 📺
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Old 01-08-2020, 03:24 PM   #249
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Wow, your photos are epic!! Presumably it looks more natural with Sony x9500h compared to Qleds?
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Old 01-08-2020, 03:55 PM   #250
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Love your pictures btw.

Basics first. Perhaps you can understand where I am coming from.

TV HDR is not the same as Photo HDR or HDRi.

SDR. Mastered to 100 nits. Uses REC.709 colour space. 8-bit. Resulting in 256 different shades of a certain colour.

So imagine. If the video is meant to show a certain type of colour that needs 30 nits of brightness to show that exact colour gradient.

You then decide the pump up the TV's brightness so the maximum output becomes 1000 nits. 10 times the original peak brightness of SDR.

30 nits times 10 is 300 nits.

With the backlight shining at 300 nits brighter light, you have also skewed the original pixel colour in front of the backlight. Thus shifting the entire colour to something completely different. No where near it's original colour as a result.

Easiest way for everyone to test, pause a video with a lot of different colours. Now go to your picture settings and crank the brightness from your default to the maximum 100 brightness. What just happened to your colours? Doesn't it also shift? The dark red will look brighter and so on. It is therefore no longer accurate.

A 30 nit blue is different than a 300 nit blue. That is what I am saying. Of cos you will love the brighter colours. It pops out even more. It appeals to people. But is it in any way accurate and representative of the real life look or what the artist intended the picture or video to be seen? Nope. And you can times 10 to that!

Pretend this is the original colour when you have the nits set to 100.


Now this is the outcome when you set the peak brightness to 1000 nits.


The entire 8 bit colour volume is stretched. So the 30 nit green, with a bright white light added changes it to a 300 nit lime green; And so on and so forth. All the colours will be shifted and therefore, no longer accurate. if you really want to master a content meant for high brightness, then just use HDR along with the appropriate colour space for it like BT 2020.

If you are really watching a video during the day, what you should be changing is the Gamma and not the brightness. It really helps pump up the dark scenes for day viewing while still maintaining colour accuracy for everything above.
Dark room: Gamma 2.4/BT.1886.
Bright Room: Gamma 2.2 or you can use your TV's in-built room ambience sensor to help increase and decrease the TV's brightness to compensate for changes in your room brightness such as AI Brightness or Dolby Vision's own Dolby Vision IQ.


But other than that, LG's OLED panel seems to be at its limit. And it is limiting all the other TV manufacturers as well. Glad that we have another OLED panel manufacturer popping up. Maybe going to RGB OLED will help it even more than just WRGB.


As for usage, I've mentioned this before. You and I go to work. When do you think we'll be using our TVs to watch content? In the evening. So is your Window and sunlight really a concern then?


Even better. If you want the most accurate display, then look no more than what artist and Directors uses in their studios when they are colour grading their films in Dolby Vision using the Dolby Pulsar reference monitor that is capable of 4,000 nits. The Dolby engineers there makes sure the TV, including the same OLED TV looks to reflect the Sony Pulsar monitor display as closely as possible. So that is another thing to consider.

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Old 01-08-2020, 04:37 PM   #251
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I do some photoshop so I view colours as hue + saturation and brightness as luminosity.

To me, all I hope from my TV is to get the color (hue+saturation) right so there is no color cast. Luminosity is dependent a lot on your viewing conditions. I think most people define color as hue+saturation and treat luminosity separately.

What your are saying is to match the luminosity to the creator intent which is important too but is only practical if you have full light control room. A 100 nits red looks totally different in a dark room than in the living room. It is pointless talking about matching nits to the creator's intent unless you are willing to go all the way and get full light control. Then you have to get the TV professionally calibrated too.

In a living room, you are NEVER going to see what the director intended for luminosity, and what you should aim for is a brighter panel to win against the ambient light.

It is good to aim for a setup that can truly show what the director intended, and in that case, the room is so much more important than the TV.
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Old 01-08-2020, 07:04 PM   #252
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Yup, I use the q80r for computer monitor too. I can watch Netflix YouTube with VPN on pc.
The blacks of the oled I feel comes to play if you are willing to light control your viewing room. I think most people don’t and reflection handling and brightness is more important I feel in this case. The Samsung is better in both.
If u are willing to dim down your room when watching go for the oled.
The Sony x95h is not delivered yet. I did view it at best Denki and the reflection handling seems pretty decent. It’s hard to compare without side by side so I usually rely on rtings website a lot
Do share your thoughts once you have x95h to test at home. For LEDs, I am considering this and Q80R. I've seen the latest Q95T but they dont offer much improvements as you said. At the showroom, I think Samsung wins on the viewing angle.
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Old 01-08-2020, 11:43 PM   #253
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Looks like Samsung releasing QNED, maybe QLED discontinued soon
https://www.explica.co/smart-tvs-wit...ology-in-2021/
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Old 02-08-2020, 10:52 AM   #254
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I think the q95t is comparable to the q80r. The q80t is comparable to the q70r according to reviews.
If u donít need updated ports, itís a no brainer to get q80r vs q95t as I think their iq is similar.

Donít get the q80t over the q80r...
How do you compare Q90R and Q80R? Similar IQ?
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Old 02-08-2020, 10:53 AM   #255
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Looks like Samsung releasing QNED, maybe QLED discontinued soon
https://www.explica.co/smart-tvs-wit...ology-in-2021/
"Some 30,000 panels are expected to be manufactured in that second quarter of 2021"

Looks like by the time it is "affordable", it'd be 2022 or 2023.
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