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Digital TV (DVB T2) in Singapore [consolidated]

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Old 28-03-2014, 05:25 PM   #1741
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Hi Kiwi8,

Wrong thread to post your question on indo chan frequencies.

The answer is in this thread (post #1708).
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Old 28-03-2014, 06:17 PM   #1742
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Hi Kiwi8,

Wrong thread to post your question on indo chan frequencies.

The answer is in this thread (post #1708).
You mean post #1706 ?
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Old 28-03-2014, 10:15 PM   #1743
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This is a departure from my normal practice of only commenting on specific technical issues.

The writer mentioned some of things he heard from a reliable source, which for obvious reason cannot be revealed.

I would like to discuss about the reliability of info from reliable sources in general terms, assuming that there was perfect communication between the writer and the source.

Those who work in large organisations will know there is a hierarchy in the form of a pyramid. Each person/layer in the hieracky knows his area of responsibility/work well if he remains in the same position long enough. Thus technical people in operations know their work well but usually do not know company policies and the rationale, some of which may have sensitive info, if these are not communicated to them. On the other hand people at the top will not know exactly the technical intricacy of their operations.

It is also known that people come and go, including the top men. Attrition, job rotation, promotion and so on. For a company with a long history, it is indeed hard to find one who knows everything about the company as it evolves with time.

For HDB matv, it has a history of more than 40 years. Those in the pioneer generation and have long memory will recall the forest of antennae sticking out of roof tops and common corridors, in places such as Tanglin Halt, Bukit Merah, Taman Jurong and so on.

To help improve tv receptions in the early days, which only had chans 3, 5, 8 an 10 then, HDB implemented matv. Initially 300 ohm ribbon cables were used as down lead. Some of the tv outlets used short length of twin flexible cable (as used for lighting cable) as capacitors. As technology improves, number of tv stations increased and extended to UHF band, the matv specs were continuously upgraded. This is in line with the improvements made to HDB flats in general - lifts, building materials, technologies etc.

Rewirings were carried out for old systems when they were due. This brings them up to the prevailing standard at that point of time. Rewirings were done by Town Councils during the period when they were in charge of matv. MATV in older blocks may in fact have newer systems than newer blocks

As of today, there are about 10,000 blocks of HDB flat. To simplify HDB matv to a few models is like saying sizes S, M and L will fit the body of everyone.

All the above comments I made are based on public info, and from work and life experience, my own reliable source.

Finally, just to quote a real example of an info I got from a reliable source. I was once told that a coming MRT line will have a station with entrance/exit right next to our condo entrance/exit, citing the sighting of plans even. When public announcement was made, the station entrance/exit was found to be in a different location.

Still, there are positives about such chatters. If the authorities monitor well, these may help to improve their communication to the public and may also help to fine tune their policies.
Thanks for the comments. I understand your position on the validity of information from a third party, and I would normally disclose my sources, but I have verbally agreed with said source on not disclosing identity or information that leads to identity leakage.

I can only state here on why I deem source to be "reliable", namely the line of work that source is doing is directly related to the discussion, and that source has performed an action which leads me to verify directly the validity of said information. There are parts thereon which may be from personal opinion of source, and as you mentioned, policies can suddenly change, which has the potential to invalidate the information I quoted.

Feel free to take what I quoted with a pinch of salt if you like; I certainly welcome anyone else to prove or disprove it so we can all learn something and know how best to deploy our DVB-T2 setup
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Old 28-03-2014, 10:19 PM   #1744
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You mean post #1706 ?
No typo here. Just a different way to let him know that he has seen it before
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Old 28-03-2014, 11:25 PM   #1745
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No typo here. Just a different way to let him know that he has seen it before
Indeed I forgot what I posted a few days ago.

Sorry for the inconvenience caused by my amnesia.
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Old 28-03-2014, 11:42 PM   #1746
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Indeed I forgot what I posted a few days ago.

Sorry for the inconvenience caused by my amnesia.
Not a problem. Think know you better by now
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Old 29-03-2014, 11:03 AM   #1747
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This is going to be a challenge for the implementer - how to enable signals to penetrate the thick reinforced wall of the household shelter. In times of needs communcations still need to be maintained with the outside world.
Actually.....

Quote from HDB website (see last para):

Household Shelter


General


The household shelter in your HDB flat is designed and constructed to serve also as a civil defence shelter in times of emergency. They are specially designed and well-prepared to protect you and your loved ones in an emergency. The household shelter has strengthened walls, floor and ceiling and a steel door.

Like the other structural components of the flat, the following cannot be hacked or drilled during any renovation:
  • Reinforced walls
  • Reinforced floor slab
  • Ceiling
  • Steel door

Certain finishes and fixtures are not permitted as they are not easily removable before an emergency. These may instead become hazards when you have to occupy the shelter during an emergency. Lighting, power point, telephone point and MATV outlet are also provided within the shelter. These are provided for you to communicate with the outside world.
I believe (I cannot confirm as I do not have a shelter in my flat):
The MATV points (including the electrical and telephone points) should come from dedicated trunkings that are also protected within the reinforced structure.(?)

Whatever the case, HDB should continue to maintain such infrastructure, and not forgetting the MATV systems which is the last line for emergency notification when all things fails.
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Old 29-03-2014, 02:21 PM   #1748
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Quote from MDA:


There is no need to (excluded landed property):
1.) Share an Antenna
2.) Separately cabled all your rooms with the MATV points
You only need to search for a fixed power point!

Indoor coverage (99.9%?) already reached BB, AMK & JE, so if you are already living in these areas, you just need an INDOOR UHF antenna.
1.) There is no need to place the antenna near or outside the windows
2.) Very likely there is no need for a powered antenna, a passive antenna will do.
As long as your room has a window, never mind whether it is opened or closed, your indoor antenna can be positioned conveniently anywhere inside the room.
You may also watch TV in the toilet, but there is no guarantee if it is possible in your store room, and definitely not inside the bomb shelter

For those living in areas where indoor coverage has yet to be rolled-out, you need to be patient. In the near future, if you are lucky, you may notice that a Mediacorp transmitter has just been installed on a building just next door.

In general, indoor signals will get stronger & better once the roll-out reaches your areas.

few questions to ask since it has been a while since i visited this thread.

1. Any idea about the coverage in cck/yew tee area?
2. Even though the digital signal coverage is good to the extend that there is no need to place the antenna near the windows, we still need 2 antenna for 2 tv at 2 different rooms right?
3. Are there any models recommended for indoor antennas? From what I read so far, it seems that the DAIYO EU1702 indoor antenna is recommended. I assume if the antenna is able to receive digital signal it should be able to receive the analogue signal as well right?
4. Will the older models of indoor antenna meant for analogue be able to receive digital signal? I am guessing probably no, but the fact that some MATV antenna are able to receive digital signal confuses me on this part.


TIA
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Old 29-03-2014, 04:50 PM   #1749
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few questions to ask since it has been a while since i visited this thread.

1. Any idea about the coverage in cck/yew tee area?
2. Even though the digital signal coverage is good to the extend that there is no need to place the antenna near the windows, we still need 2 antenna for 2 tv at 2 different rooms right?
3. Are there any models recommended for indoor antennas? From what I read so far, it seems that the DAIYO EU1702 indoor antenna is recommended. I assume if the antenna is able to receive digital signal it should be able to receive the analogue signal as well right?
4. Will the older models of indoor antenna meant for analogue be able to receive digital signal? I am guessing probably no, but the fact that some MATV antenna are able to receive digital signal confuses me on this part.


TIA
Old antennas can be used for digital as long it's UHF
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Old 29-03-2014, 09:34 PM   #1750
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Actually.....

Quote from HDB website (see last para):


I believe (I cannot confirm as I do not have a shelter in my flat):
The MATV points (including the electrical and telephone points) should come from dedicated trunkings that are also protected within the reinforced structure.(?)

Whatever the case, HDB should continue to maintain such infrastructure, and not forgetting the MATV systems which is the last line for emergency notification when all things fails.
You have raised interesting and pertinent points. On paper, the list of provisions in the household shelter (HS) for emergency use sounds impressive. But if one probe deeper, then one may find that the picture may not be so pretty.

Electricity supply for a block comes from the switch room at the ground floor. Similarly telephone wiring orginates from the MDF room. These rooms and wirings are not protected against explosion damage. When the switch room is damaged, electricity for the block fails and everything that operates on electricity stops working. So even if the matv is not damaged, or if dvb-t2 signal is able to penetrate the wall, the tv has no electricity supply to work on.

That's why the question of whether G3/G4 work in HS is important and I hope someone can answer the question. Unless the base station suffers a direct hit, it will continue to work without electricity for some time since it has backup batteries.

Note: if you are still interested to know the technical requirements for the services, the info is available here:
FAQ 4
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Old 29-03-2014, 10:11 PM   #1751
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Tia gong according to Wikipedia itself, Channel NewsAsia is also on DVB-T2 Channel 27, UHF 522MHz, LCN 06, Channel U, UHF 522MHz, LCN 07, OKTO, Channel 27 UHF 522MHz, LCN 10 using 16:9 scale.

LATEST UPDATE
Malaysia RTM TV1 and TV2 are using HDTV on SingTel MioTV from 31 March 2014 Channel 612/12 on RTM TV2 HD and Channel 611/11 on RTM TV1 HD
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Last edited by harry1990; 29-03-2014 at 11:05 PM..
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Old 30-03-2014, 11:22 AM   #1752
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.....

Electricity supply for a block comes from the switch room at the ground floor. Similarly telephone wiring orginates from the MDF room. These rooms and wirings are not protected against explosion damage. When the switch room is damaged, electricity for the block fails and everything that operates on electricity stops working. So even if the matv is not damaged, or if dvb-t2 signal is able to penetrate the wall, the tv has no electricity supply to work on.
I mean logically, there should be a separate antenna at the top of the structure serving the HS......You will need additionally a bomb-proof, self-sustainable underground infrastructure to support it.... and the result: only a few may be able to afford such a flat

.....
That's why the question of whether G3/G4 work in HS is important and I hope someone can answer the question. Unless the base station suffers a direct hit, it will continue to work without electricity for some time since it has backup batteries.
.....
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Old 30-03-2014, 11:32 AM   #1753
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few questions to ask since it has been a while since i visited this thread.

1. Any idea about the coverage in cck/yew tee area?
2. Even though the digital signal coverage is good to the extend that there is no need to place the antenna near the windows, we still need 2 antenna for 2 tv at 2 different rooms right?
3. Are there any models recommended for indoor antennas? From what I read so far, it seems that the DAIYO EU1702 indoor antenna is recommended. I assume if the antenna is able to receive digital signal it should be able to receive the analogue signal as well right?
4. Will the older models of indoor antenna meant for analogue be able to receive digital signal? I am guessing probably no, but the fact that some MATV antenna are able to receive digital signal confuses me on this part.


TIA
I will try to answer your questions in seperate postings.....
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Old 30-03-2014, 11:36 AM   #1754
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Do I need a “Digital” antenna?
Check this out if you need the so call “digital” antenna.
Will I need a new antenna to get digital TV? › Ask an Expert (ABC Science)

In essence, there is no difference between antenna that is advertised as analog or digital, it is all just a marketing scheme. All antennas are made to receive specific frequencies, rather than the types of signals. If existing antenna is designed to receive the frequencies on which the digital signals are broadcast, and has a suitable gain, then there is no need to replace them.

Other consideration for antenna includes the bandwidth, gain and directivity of the antennas, which I would not want to cover any further.
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Old 30-03-2014, 11:52 AM   #1755
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Can I still use the HDB MATV outlet?
(If you have read my previous posting and able to digest it, you should have no issue understand the below.)
  • Mediacorp and MDA are both saying that we cannot use our existing HDB (MATV) TV outlet.
  • On the other hand, both are also saying to landed property owners that they can use their existing outdoor rooftop antenna if they are currently using it to receive Mediacorp’s current UHF channels (CNA, Ch U, okto and Vasantham).

Similarly, if your current HDB MATV outlet is able to give you reception for at least the first 3 of the four analog UHF channels mentioned above, you can use it as well to receive the digital channels.

To explain why this is possible, you need to know that the current digital signals are transmitted in adjacent channels to those of the analog channels as listed below.

Ch 27 Digital ChU, CNA & Okto. All SD
Ch 28 Analog Ch U
Ch 29 Digital CH5 (HD) & Suria (HD)
Ch 30 Analog Okto
Ch 31 Digital Ch 8 (HD) & Vtham (HD)
Ch 32 Analog CNA
Ch 33 Digital Okto (HD) - in mid-2014

Thus, if your existing MATV covers the current Mediacorp's UHF range of analog signals, it will also be able to cover all channels in between and adjacent to it, including ch 27 & ch 33 due to the inherit antenna property and the robustness in digital broadcast technology.

Last edited by SilverLine; 30-03-2014 at 11:54 AM..
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