Need advice on setting up internet for new flat

[Henry Ng]

I think it is not bad considering its price.

It is probably in the same performance class of TP-Link Deco M4 (S$99 for a pair) but with more features (especially for Starhub users). So it is really worth the S$40-S$50 price tag from Carousell.

The drawback is that it only has 1 LAN port while Nokia can actually put 4 LAN ports in it.

 

[Mach3.2]

Some mesh routers are cheaper than RT-AC2600. For example, TP-Link Deco M4 can be bought at S$99 a pair. With Ethernet backhaul, the performance is actually pretty good. Roaming will be easier as well.
Ref: https://www.hachi.tech/biz-solution...routers/tp-link-deco-m4-2-pack--6935364084189

Deco M5 has better features than Deco M4 and three pack is at about S$209. Two pack is at around S$139.
https://www.hachi.tech/biz-solution...whole-home-wi-fi-system-3-pack--6935364080839

https://www.hachi.tech/biz-solution...2-pack-ac1300-whole-home-wi-fi--6935364080846

Nokia Beacon 1 can be bought at S$40-S$50 as well from Carousell. Good solution for Starhub customers who plan to get the Starhub TV+ box.

So actually cheap dual band Mesh solution with Ethernet backhaul can be a cost effective solution.

The tplink mesh isn't a good buy imo. The 5GHz radio is only 2x2, which is essentially the same as the Nokia 1 mesh(~$50 according to you) and the Asus RT-AC1200G+ (~$30 on carousell). I also don't believe .11ac wave 2 has any big impact on performance, especially if your devices doesn't support .11ac wave 2.

Not to mention MU-MIMO is also kinda pointless on a 2x2:2 5GHz radio like the one on the deco M5, unless you have multiple 1x1:1 .11ac wave 2 clients. Only then you might see some tangible performance increase from MU-MIMO.

Edit: But like you mentioned in the above posts, the nokia mesh could make sense if you already have an existing nokia mesh unit. I'm operating on the assumption that it's a new BTO with no services subscribed yet.

tl;dr I'll either cheap out an get 2* cheap .11ac wave 1 routers off of carousell, or I'll go big and spend more on .11ax(WiFi6) routers.

 

[Repsol_2]

Actually if you're moving into a new flat, you should consider designing your WiFi coverage for 5Ghz, and not rely on mesh nodes using wireless backhual, since you have the luxury of laying ethernet cables for APs before you start with renovation. 5GHz is really the way forward, since 2.4GHz is really congested especially in densely packed apartment buildings like HDBs/Condos.

Think of Wifi as a finite resource and only reserve it for devices that cannot be connected using wires. A typical 4rm flat can be covered with strong 5GHz signal with 2 APs; 1 in the middle bedroom and the other in the living room.

The above is my setup for reference, and I get good throughput pretty much anywhere in my house, less the balcony, bomb shelter and the master bedroom toilet.

The caveat is you need to reduce and tune the transmit power of your APs so your devices doesn't get stuck on the bedroom AP when you're in your living room, and vice versa. The drywall in new BTO flats doesn't block much of the WiFi signal and if you leave the APs transmitting at max power, it's very likely your devices won't roam properly between the 2 APs.

Why so many AP? 1 AP is enough to cover whole hse if u place it correctly. Even svs yard i get signals.

Posted by my mum. HardwareZone Forums app

 

[xiaofan]

Why so many AP? 1 AP is enough to cover whole hse if u place it correctly. Even svs yard i get signals.

Haha, cheap APs vs more powerful but more expensive APs like your Unifi AP.

Also every home is different in terms of layout and things inside.

 

[Repsol_2]

Haha, cheap APs vs more powerful but more expensive APs like your Unifi AP.

Also every home is different in terms of layout and things inside.

Nowadays most layout quite standard.

Posted by my mum. HardwareZone Forums app

 

[Henry Ng]

The tplink mesh isn't a good buy imo. The 5GHz radio is only 2x2, which is essentially the same as the Nokia 1 mesh(~$50 according to you) and the Asus RT-AC1200G+ (~$30 on carousell). I also don't believe .11ac wave 2 has any big impact on performance, especially if your devices doesn't support .11ac wave 2.

Not to mention MU-MIMO is also kinda pointless on a 2x2:2 5GHz radio like the one on the deco M5, unless you have multiple 1x1:1 .11ac wave 2 clients. Only then you might see some tangible performance increase from MU-MIMO.

Edit: But like you mentioned in the above posts, the nokia mesh could make sense if you already have an existing nokia mesh unit. I'm operating on the assumption that it's a new BTO with no services subscribed yet.

tl;dr I'll either cheap out an get 2* cheap .11ac wave 1 routers off of carousell, or I'll go big and spend more on .11ax(WiFi6) routers.

Actually the RT-AX56U and AX58U are also 2x2 and i think it is ok for small home like HDB.

 

[Mach3.2]

Why so many AP? 1 AP is enough to cover whole hse if u place it correctly. Even svs yard i get signals.

Posted by my mum. HardwareZone Forums app

I planned for strong 5GHz in the living room/bedroom area, and I already had 2 APs so why not. It allows me to fail over to another AP in the event something goes wrong with 1 of the APs when I upgrade the firmware, or when I change some settings.

I also don't have to set the transmit power on my APs to the max and I can get away with 9dBm(EIRP) for the 2.4GHz radio, and 15dBm(EIRP) for the 5GHz radio on both APs. Cuts down on the signal bleeding outside my house as well.

 

[Mach3.2]

Haha, cheap APs vs more powerful but more expensive APs like your Unifi AP.

Also every home is different in terms of layout and things inside.

I'm also using unifi APs what are you talking about lol

 

[Mach3.2]

Actually the RT-AX56U and AX58U are also 2x2 and i think it is ok for small home like HDB.

You get some benefits associated with WiFi6 like OFDMA, but I feel it's better to hold out till 4x4:4 WiFi6 routers become affordable to better take advantage of MU-MIMO, since most WiFi6 clients are 2x2:2, and having 4x4:4 or even 8x8:8 on your router allows you to take advantage of MU-MIMO for 2 or more 2x2:2 clients at the same time.

The 2x2:2 AX56U can't really take advantage of MU-MIMO with 2x2:2 clients and can only serve 2* 1x1:1 WiFi6 clients at the same time, so it might make more sense saving that $150+ per router by getting the older .11ac wave 1 router.

End of day, it depends on user needs and spending power, so ymmv, do your own planning.

 

[Repsol_2]

I planned for strong 5GHz in the living room/bedroom area, and I already had 2 APs so why not. It allows me to fail over to another AP in the event something goes wrong with 1 of the APs when I upgrade the firmware, or when I change some settings.

I also don't have to set the transmit power on my APs to the max and I can get away with 9dBm(EIRP) for the 2.4GHz radio, and 15dBm(EIRP) for the 5GHz radio on both APs. Cuts down on the signal bleeding outside my house as well.

U lucky ah. Can get 5rm. Shiok. I ballot so many time bo tio. Only 4rm then tio.

Posted by my mum. HardwareZone Forums app

 

[xiaofan]

You get some benefits associated with WiFi6 like OFDMA, but I feel it's better to hold out till 4x4:4 WiFi6 routers become affordable to better take advantage of MU-MIMO, since most WiFi6 clients are 2x2:2, and having 4x4:4 or even 8x8:8 on your router allows you to take advantage of MU-MIMO for 2 or more 2x2:2 clients at the same time.

The 2x2:2 AX56U can't really take advantage of MU-MIMO with 2x2:2 clients and can only serve 2* 1x1:1 WiFi6 clients at the same time, so it might make more sense saving that $150+ per router by getting the older .11ac wave 1 router.

End of day, it depends on user needs and spending power, so ymmv, do your own planning.

Many tests show that MU-MIMO do not really work well in real world. OFDMA may not work well either at least for now.

Hopefully new generation clients and routers can get both work better.

 

[xiaofan]

I'm also using unifi APs what are you talking about lol

Not talking about your own particular setup lah, rather based on your previous recommendation of cheap wave 1 AC APs (below S$50 ones).

Edit to add:

This is also based on my experiences with various routers: Linksys WRT1900AC (poor 2.4GHz performance), Linksys EA7500, SingTel AC Plus AC1200, TP-Link Deco M4 AC1200 mesh, Huawei WS5200 Quad Core AC1200, Huawei AX3 Pro AX3000 and SingTel Mesh Router AC1900.

Some of them (Huawei AX3 Pro and SingTel Mesh Router) can cover my 106 sqm 4 room HDB flat (built in 1998) with single router but with 2.4GHz band only (>50Mbps). None of them can really cover the full flat with 5GHz band because of the weak spots in master room and kitchen area.

But then if I add one Deco M4 in each room with the help of power line adapters (no Ethernet cabling), all rooms can have >100Mbps 5GHz wifi. The speed is limited by the power line adapters though. In the end I decided not to use the Deco M4 because 50Mbps is good enough in the weak spots.

BTW, new BTO 5 rooms are around 110sqm or smaller, so it is probably comparable with my flat. But my flat is in a corner so has a bit of strange layout (L shape living room).

 

[Mach3.2]

Not talking about your own particular setup lah, rather based on your previous recommendation of cheap wave 1 AC APs (below S$50 ones).

My apologies, I misunderstood your intentions.

Edit to add:



This is also based on my experiences with various routers: Linksys WRT1900AC (poor 2.4GHz performance), Linksys EA7500, SingTel AC Plus AC1200, TP-Link Deco M4 AC1200 mesh, Huawei WS5200 Quad Core AC1200, Huawei AX3 Pro AX3000 and SingTel Mesh Router AC1900.

Some of them (Huawei AX3 Pro and SingTel Mesh Router) can cover my 106 sqm 4 room HDB flat (built in 1998) with single router but with 2.4GHz band only (>50Mbps). None of them can really cover the full flat with 5GHz band because of the weak spots in master room and kitchen area.

But then if I add one Deco M4 in each room with the help of power line adapters (no Ethernet cabling), all rooms can have >100Mbps 5GHz wifi. The speed is limited by the power line adapters though. In the end I decided not to use the Deco M4 because 50Mbps is good enough in the weak spots.

BTW, new BTO 5 rooms are around 110sqm or smaller, so it is probably comparable with my flat. But my flat is in a corner so has a bit of strange layout (L shape living room).

Newer BTOs mostly have drywall as the wall material as compared to concrete for older HDBs.

Concrete is really a huge wifi killer; even on full power, my AC LR had trouble penetrating a wall and 2 wooden wardrobes. Can only get about 20-30Mbps in the other room when connected to the 2.4GHz band.

Wifi is an all round **** show in my old flat, you really cannot beat physics when it comes to wireless.

 

[xiaofan]

Newer BTOs mostly have drywall as the wall material as compared to concrete for older HDBs.

Concrete is really a huge wifi killer; even on full power, my AC LR had trouble penetrating a wall and 2 wooden wardrobes. Can only get about 20-30Mbps in the other room when connected to the 2.4GHz band.

Wifi is an all round **** show in my old flat, you really cannot beat physics when it comes to wireless.

Thanks for the info.

Interesting to know the difference between new BTO flat and old flats in terms of wifi performance.

 

[Henry Ng]

You get some benefits associated with WiFi6 like OFDMA, but I feel it's better to hold out till 4x4:4 WiFi6 routers become affordable to better take advantage of MU-MIMO, since most WiFi6 clients are 2x2:2, and having 4x4:4 or even 8x8:8 on your router allows you to take advantage of MU-MIMO for 2 or more 2x2:2 clients at the same time.

The 2x2:2 AX56U can't really take advantage of MU-MIMO with 2x2:2 clients and can only serve 2* 1x1:1 WiFi6 clients at the same time, so it might make more sense saving that $150+ per router by getting the older .11ac wave 1 router.

End of day, it depends on user needs and spending power, so ymmv, do your own planning.

understand, 2X2 is basic one. Just wait till price fall then i will upgrade to Wifi 6 router.

 

[LoneTraveller]

I’m currently contracted to StarHub cable for my current house and I’m moving into a new 4 room flat within the next 2 months.

How can I ensure that there’s connectivity throughout the new house without any drop in signal or strength?

My desktop pc with no wifi capabilities is in my study room. My main concern is having connectivity in the study room followed by the living room cause of the tv as well as the tv in another bed room.

Any plans or provider to recommend ?

Sorry I’m a complete idiot at such stuffs. Wifi mesh won’t work for my desktop right cause there isn’t a lan cable to connect to my desktop?

Posted with HardwareZone Forums app

New bto should come with a lan point in each room so wired internet connectivity is the least of your concerns. You just need to plan properly on the placement of the desktop, TV etc in each and every room and get your contractor to pull up the required data and power points at the places where u put those items.

As for wireless, just show us your layout and the experts will tell u where to put the ap to have whole house wireless 5ghz coverage. Just 1 powerful ap will do.

 

[MoobLikeJagger]

Avoid Singtel like the plague

 

[Samuel_LKH]

Yes you do not need to put the router in the DB Box.

ONT -- patch panel -- living room Ethernet port -- main router --- wireless backhaul -- mesh unit

As for Google Mesh, its main advantage is the ease of use, the performance is probably not matching the price as it is only dual band. Still if you like the Google brand and use Google ecosystem stuff, then no problem to go with it.

Ref: Google Nest WiFi S$229 + S$199 = S$428
https://store.google.com/sg/config/nest_wifi?hl=en-SG

Triband solution like Netgear Orbi RBK50 (about S$439 a pair) and Asus ZenWiFi CT8 (about S$439 a pair) are at similar price but performance should be much better.

Hi Expert,

Can I ask. My place comes with a smarthub for aircon which needs to connect to router, and my blinds has another smart hub which also needs to connect to the router, but the thing is Google router has only one data out point.
Any suggestion how to solve this?

 

[-Grift-]

Hi Expert,

Can I ask. My place comes with a smarthub for aircon which needs to connect to router, and my blinds has another smart hub which also needs to connect to the router, but the thing is Google router has only one data out point.
Any suggestion how to solve this?

Can make use of a network switch such as TP-link switch

Adding LAN ports to Google Nest Wifi or Google Wifi point

 

[xiaofan]

Hi Expert,

Can I ask. My place comes with a smarthub for aircon which needs to connect to router, and my blinds has another smart hub which also needs to connect to the router, but the thing is Google router has only one data out point.
Any suggestion how to solve this?

Add a dumb switch like TP-Link SG-105 to the Google, about S$28.5.

https://www.hachi.tech/biz-solution...00mbps-desktop-switch-tl-sg105--6935364021146