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Single LAN cable with Network trunk setup without loop back LAN wire to DB

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Old 30-12-2017, 01:37 AM   #1
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Single LAN cable with Network trunk setup without loop back LAN wire to DB

Reading posts here..mostly stuck with Single Lan point to living hall with no return line to loop back to DB for further distribution.


There is one solution that you dont need to lay extra cable yet able to loop back for further distribution without much suffer on bandwidth ( up to 1 GB Full duplex).


By using 2 managed switch, you can achieve this goal .

1. ONT -> Managed Switch 1(MS1) => Network truck with single LAN cable to link to Managed Switch 2 => Living Hall Router & its LAN Port loop back to MS2 switch to be routed back to MS1 LAN Port for other rooms distributions.



MS1 Setup
- 1 Trunk Port ( ONT -> MS1-Trunk Port -> MS2 -Trunk Port-> Router WAN Port
- VLan grouping based on ISP vlan settings

-Define Vlan Group for Other rooms distribution, Vlan-InterLAN


MS2-Setup
-Dedicted TrunkPort to route traffic from MS1 and To MS1
-Vlan group for Router WAN Port & Trunk
-Vlan group ports for Router's LANPORT to MS1 Lan Ports- Vlan -InterLAN


Since the only physical LAN has full duplex bandwidth of 1GBps Up and 1 GBps Down.

Since the internet application mostly download more than upload. With assumption of 9:1 Ratio of Download /Upload (Mainly for signal acknowledgement) .

You will have 900Mbps for download bandwidth and 100 Mbps for uplink acknowledgement.

Single Trunk have 2 lanes of Download link(DL) and 2 lanes of UpLink (UL)


Download Link Signal
1.Internet ->ONT ->Trunk MS1 (Trunk of 2 lanes download) -> MS2 ( 2 Lanes of receiving ) to Router WAN

2. LAN Ports from MS1 Network will use the same DL lanes to transfer signal back to Router's Lan Port.
*This uplink signal ration should be around 10% of Internet incoming traffic


Uplink Path
1) Wan Out from Router to ONT to Internet
10% of Downlink traffic
2) Network traffic From Router's LAN Port ( MS2 ) to MS1-LAN download traffics
Since this is internet download, you still have 90% bandwidth or 900 Mbps.

I have ordered 2 managed Switch from Amazon with trunk capability to experiment this concept. I should be able to share more after getting the switches from Amazon. $120 project...

This concept is not new, it is documented by many network switch makers.
One of the more easy to understand concept is found at Mikrotek wiki page.

Update(31 Dec 2017)
Adding validated Setup Diagram
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Last edited by HMAN; 31-12-2017 at 10:53 PM.. Reason: Add info v2 31Dec 2017
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Old 30-12-2017, 01:34 PM   #2
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It's a good idea and I think it would work just fine. Best if you can provide a diagram so it's properly understood. Very hard to imagine how it would look like.
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Old 30-12-2017, 02:06 PM   #3
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Waiting eagerly for ur updates. This shld b helpful 2 many ppl if the concept works.
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Old 30-12-2017, 04:27 PM   #4
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Good reference.
http://forum.tp-link.com/showthread....guration-issue

*The Vlan IDs quoted here are examples, not Singtel Vlan settings


TP-link way of MTU Vlan trunking is very confusing.
At the end , simple Vlan with overlapping of Port get the job done.


I am going to use more flexible Managed switches with more control over the True Multiple Vlan trunking .

My Cisco 200-08 and Mikrotek RB2600GS are on the way from Amazon..hope to have the bandwidth to play with this.

Last edited by HMAN; 30-12-2017 at 04:30 PM..
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Old 31-12-2017, 10:56 AM   #5
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http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/101511400-post28.html

FreezerGeezer did this some time back.
__________________
http://www.speedtest.net/result/4676416416.png
http://beta.speedtest.net/result/5059856589
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Old 31-12-2017, 11:08 AM   #6
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http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/101511400-post28.html

FreezerGeezer did this some time back.
It looks similar but its a little different since the router is behind the switch trunk making it function like a router-on-a-stick
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Old 31-12-2017, 11:41 AM   #7
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The goals are to achieve below flexibilities
1.IPTV at living hall without powering up router
2.main router at living hall for
-best wireless coverage for living hall wireless devices
-stable LAN connections for other streaming boxes /NAS
3.COMMON single LAN cable to carry all traffics back to DB
- blame so called national structural cabling guidelines
4. After gateway traffics get routed out to DB for further distribution with flat subnet mask.
Avoid double NAT. All uPnp , port forwarding continue to work
5. Flexible to deploy own Router, MESH network, don't need to use telco provided router.


Anyone wanna donate one managed switch for me to experiment?
Lacking one TPLINK easy smart switch to carry out the experiment.

I have one TPLINK Sg108E currently deployed to bypass use of SingTel router , need one more managed to experiment ..



Sent from Google PIXEL C using GAGT

Last edited by HMAN; 31-12-2017 at 11:56 AM..
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Old 31-12-2017, 10:49 PM   #8
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Concept validated with 2 TP-LInk TP-SG108E setup with my Singtel FIbre connection. The System bypass Singtel Router to use Google OnHub Mesh system ( GOogle Wifi) and IPTV is working correctly.

Speed Impact due to sharing of DOwnlink and Uplink with Single cable is insignificant .


Full Setup Diagram
Using 2 TPLink managed Switch, A Single LAN Cable can be used to route traffic to Router at Living Home + IPTV + Bypassing Singtel Router.



Speed Test

The speed impact is insignificant. I was running video steaming when the test was performed. I would say there are around 10% impact ,i can get 900MBps download when using single SW system. Upload Speed is not impacted.



DB Side Vlan Settings


PVID Settings



Living Hall Vlan Settings


Vlan PVID settings
Correction Port 2 PVID should be 10


Both Managed Switches are using same priority setting 802.1P
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Last edited by HMAN; 31-12-2017 at 11:23 PM..
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Old 31-12-2017, 11:09 PM   #9
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Can share the vlan settings in both switchesí webpages? Networking noobs canít quite understand the vlan settings written in ur diagram but Iím keen 2 learn. Thanks
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Old 31-12-2017, 11:26 PM   #10
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Can share the vlan settings in both switches’ webpages? Networking noobs can’t quite understand the vlan settings written in ur diagram but I’m keen 2 learn. Thanks
I updated my thread to have the setup information.

Quick quick go buy the Managed Switches to explore , i suggest to buy the 8Ports version .It comes in handy when you are using MESH network with only Single LAN Port..

Haha.tomorrow i am going to revert to my Single SW Setup..
I paid $50 to buy extra switch to play with it. After tomorrow, I will be back to my busy work life ..no more time to explore.

Didnt play with network setup for many years..still feel good on playing with it.

I spent more money buying managed Switches than Router
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Old 31-12-2017, 11:51 PM   #11
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Reading posts here..mostly stuck with Single Lan point to living hall with no return line to loop back to DB for further distribution.


There is one solution that you dont need to lay extra cable yet able to loop back for further distribution without much suffer on bandwidth ( up to 1 GB Full duplex).


By using 2 managed switch, you can achieve this goal .

1. ONT -> Managed Switch 1(MS1) => Network truck with single LAN cable to link to Managed Switch 2 => Living Hall Router & its LAN Port loop back to MS2 switch to be routed back to MS1 LAN Port for other rooms distributions.



MS1 Setup
- 1 Trunk Port ( ONT -> MS1-Trunk Port -> MS2 -Trunk Port-> Router WAN Port
- VLan grouping based on ISP vlan settings

-Define Vlan Group for Other rooms distribution, Vlan-InterLAN


MS2-Setup
-Dedicted TrunkPort to route traffic from MS1 and To MS1
-Vlan group for Router WAN Port & Trunk
-Vlan group ports for Router's LANPORT to MS1 Lan Ports- Vlan -InterLAN


Since the only physical LAN has full duplex bandwidth of 1GBps Up and 1 GBps Down.

Since the internet application mostly download more than upload. With assumption of 9:1 Ratio of Download /Upload (Mainly for signal acknowledgement) .

You will have 900Mbps for download bandwidth and 100 Mbps for uplink acknowledgement.

Single Trunk have 2 lanes of Download link(DL) and 2 lanes of UpLink (UL)


Download Link Signal
1.Internet ->ONT ->Trunk MS1 (Trunk of 2 lanes download) -> MS2 ( 2 Lanes of receiving ) to Router WAN

2. LAN Ports from MS1 Network will use the same DL lanes to transfer signal back to Router's Lan Port.
*This uplink signal ration should be around 10% of Internet incoming traffic


Uplink Path
1) Wan Out from Router to ONT to Internet
10% of Downlink traffic
2) Network traffic From Router's LAN Port ( MS2 ) to MS1-LAN download traffics
Since this is internet download, you still have 90% bandwidth or 900 Mbps.

I have ordered 2 managed Switch from Amazon with trunk capability to experiment this concept. I should be able to share more after getting the switches from Amazon. $120 project...

This concept is not new, it is documented by many network switch makers.
One of the more easy to understand concept is found at Mikrotek wiki page.

Update(31 Dec 2017)
Adding validated Setup Diagram

Thanks for sharing your configuration.



Sorry for a newbie question.

From your configuration. u use only one connect from ONT port to switch 2 and deploy the main router at the living room.

I like this configuration as no need to waste a router @ DB , my only concern will that affect the speed.

Most case i see that ppl use 2 connection from
a) ONT port 2 > Switch
2) ONT port 1 > router >switch



I am thinking to get one SG108E @ DB and one SG105E @ Master BR, not sure will that work.

Thanks for your reply.

Cheers
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Old 01-01-2018, 12:27 AM   #12
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As for which port to use it is really dependent on Telco Setup.

I am using Singtel Fibre with MIO TV, its ONT only use single Port to provide Vlan 10(Internet ) & Vlan 20(IPTV)
Singtel FIbre with TV Setup

If you have dedicated Port for IPTV, the setup is even more easy.


It is really up to you.
It is $36 versus $49 (8 Ports) . I dont mind paying $15 more to get 3 more ports.

I keep the 8 Ports switch as backup , as I am running Single managed SW system as I have 2 loop back cables to DB.
This study is purely for network concept exploration.



Indeed TP-Link system is very difficult to understand, you really need to experiment to understand its logic. The security could be difficult to manage.

Last edited by HMAN; 01-01-2018 at 12:33 AM..
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Old 01-01-2018, 12:55 AM   #13
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As for which port to use it is really dependent on Telco Setup.

I am using Singtel Fibre with MIO TV, its ONT only use single Port to provide Vlan 10(Internet ) & Vlan 20(IPTV)
Singtel FIbre with TV Setup

If you have dedicated Port for IPTV, the setup is even more easy.


It is really up to you.
It is $36 versus $49 (8 Ports) . I dont mind paying $15 more to get 3 more ports.

I keep the 8 Ports switch as backup , as I am running Single managed SW system as I have 2 loop back cables to DB.
This study is purely for network concept exploration.



Indeed TP-Link system is very difficult to understand, you really need to experiment to understand its logic. The security could be difficult to manage.
Using Starhub according to the post on the other thread.

May work differently from Singtel MIO TV but the setup of Managed Switch would be more or less the same.

As i had provided the link to another hwz forum on 2 SH IPTV are using 2 managed switches.

For 8-ports switch is better as there are enough room for connection to other devices beside the fixed connected to data point, router, IPTV.
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Old 01-01-2018, 02:51 AM   #14
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Using Starhub according to the post on the other thread.

May work differently from Singtel MIO TV but the setup of Managed Switch would be more or less the same.

As i had provided the link to another hwz forum on 2 SH IPTV are using 2 managed switches.

For 8-ports switch is better as there are enough room for connection to other devices beside the fixed connected to data point, router, IPTV.

Thanks for the information.

After reading up the links, here is what i have drawn up.
Not sure if it works or not.

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Old 01-01-2018, 02:53 AM   #15
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As for which port to use it is really dependent on Telco Setup.

I am using Singtel Fibre with MIO TV, its ONT only use single Port to provide Vlan 10(Internet ) & Vlan 20(IPTV)
Singtel FIbre with TV Setup

If you have dedicated Port for IPTV, the setup is even more easy.


It is really up to you.
It is $36 versus $49 (8 Ports) . I dont mind paying $15 more to get 3 more ports.

I keep the 8 Ports switch as backup , as I am running Single managed SW system as I have 2 loop back cables to DB.
This study is purely for network concept exploration.



Indeed TP-Link system is very difficult to understand, you really need to experiment to understand its logic. The security could be difficult to manage.
Thanks.

Here is what i plan to do , but not sure if it works or not.

Still bit confused with the tag and untag thing.

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