Warning - Starhub digital voice service

preternatural.stuff

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Warning to all about the Starhub digital voice service.

We all have our complaints about telcos & this one is about Starhub. In particular the digital voice service that they bundle with the home broadband/cable TV service.

Problem: the crap voice modem hardware provided & the even lousier customer service.

1. The Starhub digital voice modem stopped working one day. No power at all. No lights at all. Residential phone line dead. Thought its the usual hang, but power cycling didn't work.
2. First thought - either the modem is dead, or the power adapter.
3. My father, 75 yrs old, retiree, not English speaking, called Starhub.
4. When I found out the technician was likely to come on Friday, I called Starhub on the Friday morning. I stated that:
a) if the modem is dead, we have no choice but to buy the whole set for $89.90; but
b) if its just the power adapter, they should sell us the power adapter only, else, I will source the adapter myself.
5. Starhub technician came on Friday afternoon, confirmed its power adapter problem. Essentially blackmailed my father (while I was away at work obviously) into buying the whole modem set. Ultimatum "Pay $89.90 cash, else no residential phone line." Or so it goes.
6. I was fuming mad that this happened even though I had anticipated this and gave specific instructions in the morning.
7. Now we've got 2 x Starhub digital voice modem boxes - for what?
8. I called Starhub over the weekend to complain and they promised to get back.
9. Monday morning, the stupid customer service guy called & refused to take back the modem and do a refund/credit to my father's Starhub account.
10. They claimed that one year ago, they still sold the power adapters separately but not anymore. No reason for why they do not do it anymore. Obviously its to make more money!
11. No reason for why they cannot accept a return & do a refund - just stonewalled me while wasting my time on a Monday morning when I was busy at work.

My questions:
1. Why do we have to pay for the crap hardware that is part of the ongoing paid monthly service we are using and paying on a subscription basis? What if they burn out all the time? Why should I have to pay for their choice of cheap hardware and even cheaper power adapters that fail? Shouldn't all the hardware be supplied free? That's like throwing money into a bottomless pit.

2. What kind of crap telco service does not have spare power adapters for the devices that they sell? They have a huge supply contract with Motorola, yet they cannot secure power supplies separately?

3. A simple search will reveal that this Motorola box uses a power adapter that costs less than S$12 at Sim Lim from a reputable distributor/retailer. On eBay/Amazon etc. I can mail order it easily, maybe S$12-14.

4. Worldwide there is an electronic waste problem clogging landfills as electronic waste cannot be easily incinerated. Yet Starhub does this? How environmentally irresponsible can a corporate entity like Starhub be? What is their CSR policy?! Do they even have one?

5. I have offered to do Starhub a service by bringing the voice modem back to any of their retail outlets or even head office. Yet the retarded technician/customer service person who called me on that Monday morning insisted that "on his side, he can only say no."

6. Another call from them yesterday and still no agreement for return/refund. Need to talk to their management. How incompetent can customer service be?

Learning point:
Starhub tells you that compared to Singtel, their digital voice service is "free", "better", "unlimited" etc. Think again. If they give you crap hardware and don't even bother to stock, deliver and sell a cheap component like a power adapter, you can pay $89.90 each time for any problem. That would wipe out any savings that you would have compared to using your Singtel copper phone line.

Consider the power used by the adapter running on a 24/7/365 basis too!

At least a Singtel copper phone line has never ever given me any problems in all the years I've used it since I was a kid. It never hangs and never needs a power supply/adapter. Unlike the Starhub line which has required reboots of the voice modem from time to time (not as simple a matter when you have elderly parents and you are not able to attend to them when you are at work). In times of a power failure or power trip or emergency, you can at least be assured that you can call the police, ambulance or other emergency services.

Think twice before switching to or signing on or for Starhub's digital voice services!
 

ussr_1991

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Unfortunately pal, I read somewhere that from 2013 Dec 1 onwards, those BTO flats that got TOP then will NOT have Singtel copper lines and are forced to subscribe a digital voice then.

That means even Singtel or any other ISP could have similar problem as well in future!!!!


Yes - Singtel recommends to replace the existing 4 pair of twisted wires into 2 pieces of optic fiber. Hence, it is matter of time the copper phone line will die off like dial up.

So, stop whining until you see how Singtel sucks as well. (At least Starhub allows you to use your own router but Singtel don't. Hence, you will be also left in cold when sh!t happens to Singtel)
 

havetobuy

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1. The Starhub digital voice modem stopped working one day. No power at all. No lights at all. Residential phone line dead. Thought its the usual hang, but power cycling didn't work.
2. First thought - either the modem is dead, or the power adapter.

what happenned to lemon's law?
why it doesn't applied to laulee family corporations?
under singtel if u r on contract..all hardwares r guranteed till contract ends
~period~
 

upgrade

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I agree with you about the advantage of SingTel copper phone line. But sadly, this will be discontinued for new homes with TOP from 1-Dec-2013 onwards. Only "old" homes like most now can continue with it.

No copper phone lines for new homes

With handphone so common now a day, the fixed line phone at my place is pretty much abandoned for display only. Perhaps one day a handphone with a pre-paid card will replace it. Can SMS also whereas a fixed line cannot.

Hot55 is $9/mth (@ $15 for 50 days)
Hot128 is $16.80/mth (@ $28 for 50 days)

Caller-ID is free (a $5.35/mth value)

I already chop a good number as spare waiting for the day when I can re-assign one of the smartphone to be used as the home phone cum audio player playing mantras on constant repeat through USB powered SonicGear morro1 speakers in my little home Gompa.

I figure could be a hassle to ensure phone is always charged but on contant playback and charging at the same time should not be a problem. So, one USB charger plug with 2 USB ports will do - one for phone, the other for speakers.

Edit to add:
A fully or partially charged handphone will still work during electrical power failure. This concern is taken care of. The other thing is that old folks need to learn how to use handphone.

.
 
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upgrade

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So, stop whining until you see how Singtel sucks as well. (At least Starhub allows you to use your own router but Singtel don't. Hence, you will be also left in cold when sh!t happens to Singtel)

All SingTel equipment are provided free and under warranty for the entire length of service contract. They will be replaced free if spoilt.

No need to buy, see how StarHub sucks BIG time!!!
 

uncle168

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i think BTO flats nobody will subscribe to home line because now everybody has mobilephone except those who have older retirees at home

i kept my singtel landline because of my parents who don't know how to use mobilephone

in case of emergency, my home phone got a one touch button to call my hp

my father want to save money tell me to cancel the landline and change to SH free one

then my sister scold him what if got power failure then cannot use to call in emergency

i will keep the line until my parents leave this world because all my sibling got hp
 

ussr_1991

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All SingTel equipment are provided free and under warranty for the entire length of service contract. They will be replaced free if spoilt.

No need to buy, see how StarHub sucks BIG time!!!

Point noted - But so it appears only this reason justifies for the overall higher priced plans? Seriously, it is like paying extra all the while so that to benefits some unfortunate situations like TS since Singtel nowadays (Like any ISP) bundles their Digital Voice into broadband contract and the old copper wire is a thing of past....
 

upgrade

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Point noted - But so it appears only this reason justifies for the overall higher priced plans? Seriously, it is like paying extra all the while so that to benefits some unfortunate situations like TS since Singtel nowadays (Like any ISP) bundles their Digital Voice into broadband contract and the old copper wire is a thing of past....

Please show detailed comparison of plans. Words are easily used to mislead the uninformed. But a detailed comparison will work wonder to show what is the truth.
 

uncle168

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anyway now it is not free

it is S$10.49 a month

it is likely the price will increase until the same as ST landline

it is the same strategy with 12GB plan and S$39 200Mbps fibre plan

once you are hooked

they will squeeze u until dry dry so the CEO can huat ah seow

keekeekee
 

upgrade

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it is S$10.49 a month

it is likely the price will increase until the same as ST landline

ST landline is $27.50 for 3 months before GST.
This works out to $9.80 per month with GST.
 

preternatural.stuff

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Unfortunately pal, I read somewhere that from 2013 Dec 1 onwards, those BTO flats that got TOP then will NOT have Singtel copper lines and are forced to subscribe a digital voice then.

That means even Singtel or any other ISP could have similar problem as well in future!!!!


Yes - Singtel recommends to replace the existing 4 pair of twisted wires into 2 pieces of optic fiber. Hence, it is matter of time the copper phone line will die off like dial up.

So, stop whining until you see how Singtel sucks as well. (At least Starhub allows you to use your own router but Singtel don't. Hence, you will be also left in cold when sh!t happens to Singtel)
No, this is not *whining*.

You simply failed to understand something basic. Even if the new flats may not have copper lines, there are so many existing residential homes with it, such as mine.

The plain old telephone service (POTS) is a fully depreciated sunk cost and a revenue earning almost pure profit service - it will not be discontinued.

If you choose to move to a new residential unit without the POTS option, there is nothing to choose or switch to right? If the option never existed, what's the relevance?
 

ussr_1991

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Please show detailed comparison of plans. Words are easily used to mislead the uninformed. But a detailed comparison will work wonder to show what is the truth.

Singtel Source: BroadBand Plans | SingTel

Starhub Source: StarHub - Broadband - Home Broadband


Apple must compare with Apple, so $49.90 for 200Mbps

Yes, Starhub's Digital is $10.49 and Singtel Digital is $9.81 monthly

Singtel gives free and Starhub @ $2.10 until December. (Still Starhub more expensive due to Voice)

Starhub gives Symmetrical plan but Singtel don't (Half of upload speed)

Starhub gives assured 25Mbps on 200Mbps plan but what Singtel gives? Last time it was assured 95% of time > 15Mbps

Starhub provides AC router DIR865 now @ $299 or previously D-Link DVG-N5402SP @ $267.50 (Retail price) while Singtel provides the old $188 crappy Pace stuffs and the dual band is only applicable for 500Mbps plan.

Seriously, outside I see before DLink stuffs but not Pace / 2Wire. So the "$188" also might be inflated price lor......


Singtel gives free 1GB Mobile Broadband (7.2Mbps) while Starhub don't.

Point is, who will use this other than laptop users on the go as smartphones & phablets would have their 2GB on the monthly mobile plan and the SuperLite user will probably never need to use up to 1GB data ever. And if one really use it for iPad, for 1GB, it is a bit quite low as the standard is 2GB per month for entry levels.

Seriously from the point of Digital Voice only, Singtel is indeed cheaper and better policy than Starhub. But if one looks at the entire package for Broadband + Voice which is pretty most Voice users are from, then Singtel's offers is not as enticing as Starhub because they throw in the impractical ones.

BTW, Starhub's Anytime TV does not come with extra charges provided some settings are done it right. Singtel does not have equivalent of this.....
 

upgrade

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Singtel Source: BroadBand Plans | SingTel

Starhub Source: StarHub - Broadband - Home Broadband


Apple must compare with Apple, so $49.90 for 200Mbps

Yes, Starhub's Digital is $10.49 and Singtel Digital is $9.81 monthly

Singtel gives free and Starhub @ $2.10 until December. (Still Starhub more expensive due to Voice)

Starhub gives Symmetrical plan but Singtel don't (Half of upload speed)

Starhub gives assured 25Mbps on 200Mbps plan but what Singtel gives? Last time it was assured 95% of time > 15Mbps

Starhub provides AC router DIR865 now @ $299 or previously D-Link DVG-N5402SP @ $267.50 (Retail price) while Singtel provides the old $188 crappy Pace stuffs and the dual band is only applicable for 500Mbps plan.

Seriously, outside I see before DLink stuffs but not Pace / 2Wire. So the "$188" also might be inflated price lor......


Singtel gives free 1GB Mobile Broadband (7.2Mbps) while Starhub don't.

Point is, who will use this other than laptop users on the go as smartphones & phablets would have their 2GB on the monthly mobile plan and the SuperLite user will probably never need to use up to 1GB data ever. And if one really use it for iPad, for 1GB, it is a bit quite low as the standard is 2GB per month for entry levels.

Seriously from the point of Digital Voice only, Singtel is indeed cheaper and better policy than Starhub. But if one looks at the entire package for Broadband + Voice which is pretty most Voice users are from, then Singtel's offers is not as enticing as Starhub because they throw in the impractical ones.

BTW, Starhub's Anytime TV does not come with extra charges provided some settings are done it right. Singtel does not have equivalent of this.....

What is the result of your comparison? Seriously not well done, very confusing. Care to put it in a table so that you do not sound like using words to mislead. I seems to see you doing everywhere in the HWZ forum.

Dlink??? Do you mean Aztech? Confused?

And please... use present current information. Not something like "last time". In other words, use facts not your perceived assumptions.
 

ussr_1991

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No, this is not *whining*.

You simply failed to understand something basic. Even if the new flats may not have copper lines, there are so many existing residential homes with it, such as mine.

The plain old telephone service (POTS) is a fully depreciated sunk cost and a revenue earning almost pure profit service - it will not be discontinued.

If you choose to move to a new residential unit without the POTS option, there is nothing to choose or switch to right? If the option never existed, what's the relevance?

1: POTS looks set to be discontinued as there is a maintenance cost and one knows that while some people had good experience with ADSL, others keep kena constant DC due to poor quality copper wires in their blocks / industrial areas (Read other threads).

Read Section 2.9 and some other specific comments:

http://www.ida.gov.sg/~/media/Files/PCDG/Consultations/20120622_COPIF/SingTel.pdf

singtel said:
SingTel generally supports the proposed replacement of the twisted copper 4-pair
cables from the telecommunication riser/gate pillar to each residential unit with a twocore
optical fibre cable to a fibre termination point within the residential unit.

BTW, mine is not the new BTO type like most people and not moving anytime soon.

What I am trying to say is, while TS point is valid, there is no point thinking Singtel is really much better (It is more a hype, especially if you work out other non Broadband / Digital Voice related stuffs AS A WHOLE since usually people subscribe the same ISP as their mobile provider for better discounts) and the usage is really suits to a person's liking while all the big 3 are government linked somehow.
 

ussr_1991

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What is the result of your comparison? Seriously not well done, very confusing. Care to put it in a table so that you do not sound like using words to mislead. I seems to see you doing everywhere in the HWZ forum.

Dlink??? Do you mean Aztech? Confused?

And please... use present current information. Not something like "last time". In other words, use facts not your perceived assumptions.

1) Current? True, but must consider when the user signed with Starhub.

2) Table? Fine, I will try.

Starhub 200Mbps VS Singtel 200Mbps

Price: $49.90 / $49.90

Includes Voice:

Price: $60.39 / $49.90

Upload Speed: 200 Mbps / 100Mbps

Perks (Based on probable date when TS signed with Starhub):
Starhub
  • D-Link DVG-N5402SP worth $269. Dlink products can be found outside.
  • 16 Anyway TV channel without extra data charges (Must use WAP services, see above post)
  • Assured 25Mbps download speed
  • IDD is Cheaper (If one ever used, I don't use Singtel rate VS Starhub rate)
Singtel
  • Az-tech or Pace devices worth $188. Pace products is usually nowhere to be found and compare. So $188 claim is questionable.
  • 10% Mobile off subscription (But don't get me started on per 6 second block billing etc, $39.90 basic plan VS Starhub's $38 basic plan for everything same)
  • Mobile Broadband 7.2 for 1GB (But who actually uses it? It is either not used near 1GB limit or even at all because of all Singtel mobile plans comes with data or laptop users finds it too little)
  • Free 10GB Cloud storage (Who actually uses it?)
 

upgrade

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1) Current? True, but must consider when the user signed with Starhub.

2) Table? Fine, I will try.

Starhub 200Mbps VS Singtel 200Mbps

Price: $49.90 / $49.90

Includes Voice:

Price: $60.39 / $49.90

Upload Speed: 200 Mbps / 100Mbps

Perks (Based on probable date when TS signed with Starhub):
Starhub
  • D-Link DVG-N5402SP worth $269. Dlink products can be found outside.
  • 16 Anyway TV channel without extra data charges (Must use WAP services, see above post)
  • Assured 25Mbps download speed
  • IDD is Cheaper (If one ever used, I don't use Singtel rate VS Starhub rate)
Singtel
  • Az-tech or Pace devices worth $188. Pace products is usually nowhere to be found and compare. So $188 claim is questionable.
  • 10% Mobile off subscription (But don't get me started on per 6 second block billing etc, $39.90 basic plan VS Starhub's $38 basic plan for everything same)
  • Mobile Broadband 7.2 for 1GB (But who actually uses it? It is either not used near 1GB limit or even at all because of all Singtel mobile plans comes with data or laptop users finds it too little)
  • Free 10GB Cloud storage (Who actually uses it?)

Thank you.

Just the big 3 comparison below link. Unfortunately, the others are only 4% and 2% of market therefore too small to be included for proper perspective comparison:

Consumer Broadband Report

.
 

ussr_1991

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Thank you.

Just the big 3 comparison below link. Unfortunately, the others are only 4% and 2% of market therefore too small to be included for proper perspective comparison:

Consumer Broadband Report

.

Welcome.

Others aside and based on the report, Starhub is consistently not the best, but not the worst.

Singtel while is possible to over provision (Slightly higher than subscribed speed), but has the highest packet loss in local & US compared to M1.

Both M1 and Singtel has their fair share of best and worst while Starhub has nothing to highlight (Based on Comex 2013 brochures).

What I am and have been highlighting is while I only know Starhub's such undesirable practice today, Singtel don't comes with an cost.

Food for thought from a only local Cloud Provider:

https://www.freenet.sg/#fn5

They support almost ISP in Singapore except Pacific Internet, NTT (Both only Business users without providing Fiber service while NTT is one of the shareholder of Starhub) and Singnet

Singtel not best speed? Why they seemed cannot handle high Internet bandwidth consumption and large data transfer?
 

upgrade

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Food for thought from a only local Cloud Provider:

https://www.freenet.sg/#fn5

They support almost ISP in Singapore except Pacific Internet, NTT (Both only Business users without providing Fiber service while NTT is one of the shareholder of Starhub) and Singnet

Singtel not best speed? Why they seemed cannot handle high Internet bandwidth consumption and large data transfer?

See? This is the problem with you - cannot read and comprehend properly.

5. Limitation

Due to high Internet bandwidth consumption and large data transfer, as of now, we can only support a few local broadband ISP that have direct high speed connection into our network. If your broadband provider is not listed here, feel free to contact alan@newmediaexpress.com for more information.

Supported Singapore Internet Broadband Provider:
- LGA Telecom
- M1
- MyRepublic
- Starhub
- SuperInternet
- ViewQwest

What do you understand by this:

Due to high Internet bandwidth consumption and large data transfer, as of now, we can only support a few local broadband ISP that have direct high speed connection into our network.

And what a joke!
1) Singtel
  • ...
  • ...
  • ...
  • Free 10GB Cloud storage (Who actually uses it?)
 
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upgrade

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I am flogging a dead horse. I will stop here. And let his lies permeate this forum.

Sorry to others for my ranting.
 

ussr_1991

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See? This is the problem with you - cannot read and comprehend properly.



What do you understand by this:

Due to high Internet bandwidth consumption and large data transfer, as of now, we can only support a few local broadband ISP that have direct high speed connection into our network.

It just means that Singtel cut cost not to peer locally as much as possible. Dud? The website leave a email address to ask them to support those outside the list of ISP and I don't believe they don't know Singtel....
 
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