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Old 13-02-2018, 10:07 AM   #8131
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how should I plan kyoto to alpine route to tokyo? is this route possible?
quite lost regarding the pacing / duration

seems like Kyoto > Kanazawa (via JR thunderbird approx 2hrs train ride), then spend a night there.

Next day morning,
Kanazawa > Toyama > Alpine route > Nagano > tokyo?

is it possible do this route in 1 day and subsequently check in to tokyo hotel at night?
Going to be very rush especially since u need to make it back to tokyo. Maybe spend the night in toyama or somewhere along the alpine route to buy u more time on the route?

The other challenge will be ur luggage. There is a luggage forwarding service that can deliver ur luggage to the other end of alpine route within the same day. But u need to catch the timing to send in ur luggage. Alternatively, i suggest u use normal overnight forwarding service, and send ur luggage from kyoto to tokyo straight. Just need to bring a smaller backpack enuf for one night in kanazawa
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Old 13-02-2018, 12:25 PM   #8132
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my replies in blue
thanks cancer81
not sure if there is any big stuff going on, so should not have serious crowds

not looking at the distance between kinkakuji and Arashiyama??
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Old 13-02-2018, 02:04 PM   #8133
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how long should one spend at Takayama / Shirakawa-go?

is shirakawa-go a daytrip place like nara or?
We came down from Kyoto, toured Takayama and spent a night there. Next morning took the tour bus to Shirakawa-go which returned around 4pm , just in time for the train back to Kyoto.
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Old 13-02-2018, 02:10 PM   #8134
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Also Kyoto is majority travel by bus. The bus is small, cramp and not luggage/stroller friendly. but if you have to, please make use of the coin lockers in the station.
I did not take any bus in Kyoto. Relied strictly on trains and some cab rides. Do not shy away from cab rides thinking it is going to be too expensive. For short to mid distances, not very expensive yet allows you the flexibility of covering more places if planned systematically.
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Old 13-02-2018, 07:28 PM   #8135
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Any good Chinese food that doesn't require reservation in tokyo for dinner? Going this Friday, thought of eating Chinese food.
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Old 13-02-2018, 08:58 PM   #8136
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I am betting my Sakura on Lake Kawaguchiko, they have a night festival from 14 to 22 Apr. So planning one night stay there.
https://en.kawaguchiko.net/event-en/...soms-festival/

The pagoda is close (2 stations away) to the Kawaguichiko station and you can also catch The Fuji Shibazakura Festival with a bus ride from the station.
http://www.shibazakura.jp/eng/

There are direct buses to many areas in Tokyo from there.
http://www.shibazakura.jp/eng/access/

Getting there from Hakone is annoying though, need to go to Gotemba and change bus.
Ya the pain is from Hakone to the Kawaguchiko side.. whether to drive or public transport. Also have to consider what to pack, maybe need to leave some luggages in Tokyo (1 of those lockers at train station) and travel lighter to Hakone in the first place.


Thanks! I might check out the pink moss place..


My horror memory was during my last trip to Kawaguchiko in Autumn, we took a bus which was long journey and finally managed to get to a place with connecting train back to Tokyo. It was already pitch black and kinda worried couldn't get back in time..
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Old 13-02-2018, 09:03 PM   #8137
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Going to be very rush especially since u need to make it back to tokyo. Maybe spend the night in toyama or somewhere along the alpine route to buy u more time on the route?

The other challenge will be ur luggage. There is a luggage forwarding service that can deliver ur luggage to the other end of alpine route within the same day. But u need to catch the timing to send in ur luggage. Alternatively, i suggest u use normal overnight forwarding service, and send ur luggage from kyoto to tokyo straight. Just need to bring a smaller backpack enuf for one night in kanazawa
thx for the replies!

i thought of spending 1 night at toyama as well, just to buy time for the route.

if i was to go from kanazawa to toyama, earliest train is 6am, approx 20min journey

Dentetsu toyama > tateyama has trains approx 530, 610, 710.

which means i can only take the 710 train if i travel from kanazawa, wasting about 1h30min that could be spent on the way up (assuming i take 530 train if i stay at toyama)

https://www.chitetsu.co.jp/english/i...ma-weekday.pdf
https://www.chitetsu.co.jp/english/i...ma-holiday.pdf

Any recommendations for hotel? couldnt find anything of gd value... nth on airbnb as well. I have approx 8 pax though.


You can complete it in one day but just don't expect to be able to hike at each spot along the route. Probably can just target a few locations depending on the season.

The hard cutoff time will be the time around 6pm when the last transport leaves so how much you enjoy depends on what time you start the route.

If you turn back at Murodo, then you can catch a bullet train from Toyama to Tokyo. If you go all the way through, you will need to take a bus to Shinano Omachi to catch the train to Matsumoto and catch Azusa Ltd Express to Tokyo.
https://www.japan-guide.com/e/e7551.html
Otherwise you can continue on the bus to Nagano.
https://www.alpen-route.com/en/timetable/timetable.html

In terms of staying, I would advise you to stay in Toyama rather than Kanazawa for the night, so that you can catch the earlier trains to Tateyama to start the route. Hotels are comparatively cheaper too.
https://www.chitetsu.co.jp/english/railways/#timetable

There is also an express bus at Kurobe Dam to Tokyo but I don't think you can forward your luggage there, only Shinano-Omachi and Nagano.
https://www.alpen-route.com/en/trans...w/baggage.html
frankly my main worry is that i cant finish the route on time and make it for the last 430pm bus from Ogizawa to Nagano.

https://www.alpen-route.com/en/timet...rs01_2017.html

did not know i could head to tokyo via matsumoto.
i assume nagano to tokyo would be the better route due to lesser travelling time? (2hrs vs 3hrs)

the shinano omachi to matsumoto seems quite infrequent, approx 1 train every 1hr. last 2 trains at 2007 and 2150.

I cant seem to find the azusa on hyperdia.com?

based on this link
http://www.eki-net.com/pc/jreast-shi...chuo_u/08.html

seems like it departs 520, 635, 721pm from matsumoto to shinjuku, approx 3hrs travelling time
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Old 14-02-2018, 07:30 AM   #8138
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thx for the replies!

Any recommendations for hotel? couldnt find anything of gd value... nth on airbnb as well. I have approx 8 pax though.

frankly my main worry is that i cant finish the route on time and make it for the last 430pm bus from Ogizawa to Nagano.

https://www.alpen-route.com/en/timet...rs01_2017.html

did not know i could head to tokyo via matsumoto.
i assume nagano to tokyo would be the better route due to lesser travelling time? (2hrs vs 3hrs)

the shinano omachi to matsumoto seems quite infrequent, approx 1 train every 1hr. last 2 trains at 2007 and 2150.

I cant seem to find the azusa on hyperdia.com?

based on this link
http://www.eki-net.com/pc/jreast-shi...chuo_u/08.html

seems like it departs 520, 635, 721pm from matsumoto to shinjuku, approx 3hrs travelling time
I am a solo traveller so no experience with bookings for larger groups.

The last bus for Nagano leaves at 6pm but it will be safer to plan for an earlier departure at 4:30 since you have a bigger group.
https://www.alpen-route.com/en/timet...rs01_2017.html

There are a few more buses that goes to Shinano Omachi only so can consider that as the backup bus to take.

Nagano is 1hr after Shinano Omachi so there is a timing difference there. Nagano to Tokyo will be a bullet train so it will definitely be faster.
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Old 14-02-2018, 12:04 PM   #8139
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not sure if there is any big stuff going on, so should not have serious crowds

not looking at the distance between kinkakuji and Arashiyama??
I planning to reach arashiyama early morning then moving off

I may swap the kinkakuji for
nishiki and Kyoto rail museum
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Old 14-02-2018, 12:23 PM   #8140
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I did not take any bus in Kyoto. Relied strictly on trains and some cab rides. Do not shy away from cab rides thinking it is going to be too expensive. For short to mid distances, not very expensive yet allows you the flexibility of covering more places if planned systematically.
Is there a way to judge the cab fare beforehand - like an app for example?
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Old 14-02-2018, 11:38 PM   #8141
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I am a solo traveller so no experience with bookings for larger groups.

The last bus for Nagano leaves at 6pm but it will be safer to plan for an earlier departure at 4:30 since you have a bigger group.
https://www.alpen-route.com/en/timet...rs01_2017.html

There are a few more buses that goes to Shinano Omachi only so can consider that as the backup bus to take.

Nagano is 1hr after Shinano Omachi so there is a timing difference there. Nagano to Tokyo will be a bullet train so it will definitely be faster.
omg thank you. not sure how come i saw that the last bus is 430pm. having the 605pm bus Ogizawa > Nagano Express Bus makes it much more feasible.



when you say nagano is 1 hr after shinano omachi, u mean the travelling time right?
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Old 15-02-2018, 07:01 AM   #8142
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omg thank you. not sure how come i saw that the last bus is 430pm. having the 605pm bus Ogizawa > Nagano Express Bus makes it much more feasible.



when you say nagano is 1 hr after shinano omachi, u mean the travelling time right?
Yup, the traveling time of the bus.
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Old 15-02-2018, 07:28 AM   #8143
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Atami or hakone got better hotsprings?

Sent from Kupoooo using GAGT
I like hakone more. But hakone is 2 to 3x more expensive than atami for ryokan.
Premium kind of onsen town
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Old 15-02-2018, 07:57 AM   #8144
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Am heading to Osaka in late Feb and here's my planned itinerary, hoping to hear additional comments if I can further improve/revise it

Day 1 (Sat) >> Arrival in Osaka
Day 2 (Sun) >> Umeda & Dotonburi - Free & EZ
Day 3 (Mon) >> Kyoto Part 1 - Fushima Inari, Kiyomizudera, Higashiyama District
Day 4 (Tue) >> Todaji Temple, Nara Deer Park, Kasuga Taisha Shrine
Day 5 (Wed) >> Kyoto Part 2 - Kinkakuji, Arashiyama
Day 6 (Thur) >> Empty for now, maybe Onsen
Day 7 (Fri) >> Cup Noodle Museum, Minoo Park & Waterfall
Day 8 (Sat) >> Kuromon Ichiban Market - Free & EZ
Day 9 (Sun) >> Return to SG via afternoon flight

Last edited by VacheronLim; 15-02-2018 at 04:17 PM..
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Old 15-02-2018, 05:51 PM   #8145
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thx for the replies!

i thought of spending 1 night at toyama as well, just to buy time for the route.

if i was to go from kanazawa to toyama, earliest train is 6am, approx 20min journey

Dentetsu toyama > tateyama has trains approx 530, 610, 710.

which means i can only take the 710 train if i travel from kanazawa, wasting about 1h30min that could be spent on the way up (assuming i take 530 train if i stay at toyama)

https://www.chitetsu.co.jp/english/i...ma-weekday.pdf
https://www.chitetsu.co.jp/english/i...ma-holiday.pdf

Any recommendations for hotel? couldnt find anything of gd value... nth on airbnb as well. I have approx 8 pax though.




frankly my main worry is that i cant finish the route on time and make it for the last 430pm bus from Ogizawa to Nagano.

https://www.alpen-route.com/en/timet...rs01_2017.html

did not know i could head to tokyo via matsumoto.
i assume nagano to tokyo would be the better route due to lesser travelling time? (2hrs vs 3hrs)

the shinano omachi to matsumoto seems quite infrequent, approx 1 train every 1hr. last 2 trains at 2007 and 2150.

I cant seem to find the azusa on hyperdia.com?

based on this link
http://www.eki-net.com/pc/jreast-shi...chuo_u/08.html

seems like it departs 520, 635, 721pm from matsumoto to shinjuku, approx 3hrs travelling time
From shinano-omachi you can connect to matsumoto. Took a quick look at the alpine route timetable ... If you can get to shinano omachi by 5pm you can make it back to Tokyo by night. The Azusa is the name of the hourly (?) limited express from matsumoto to shinjuku. you can also try the express bus from matsumoto to shinjuku for half the price of the train but takes about the same amount of time.
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