www.hardwarezone.com.sg


www.hardwarezone.com.sg (/)
-   Money Mind (https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/money-mind-210/)
-   -   *Official* BBCWatcher club (https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/money-mind-210/%2Aofficial%2A-bbcwatcher-club-5855578.html)

nash1999 25-06-2018 11:32 PM

Just curious, what are your view on Critical Illness and Personal Accident?

My friends and some of the website I been to are saying that the important insurance that should be brought is Hospitalization,Critical Illness, Life and Personal Accident instead.

One of the article they brought up is this as to why critical illness is important:
https://www.todayonline.com/singapor...ce-association

Edit:
Also they have made 2 points:
CI Survival rate is increasing, so more chances of CI needing to support future care, etc
Early CI Insurance can be useful in case need to replace income or cover treatment not covered by medisave

BBCWatcher 25-06-2018 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foozgarden (Post 115139995)
what plans are avail for foreign spouse?
out of the big three, my immediate concern is medical.
for simplicity sake, assume that no govt medical scheme is applicable.

Your assumption translates into "not a Permanent Resident," so let's assume that.

If your spouse could hypothetically return to his/her country, re-establish residence there, and enjoy reasonable or better medical care in that country's public medical system, with minimum fuss, then a Singapore local Integrated Shield plan could be a good fit. Spouses from many developed countries, particularly from Europe, would fit that profile. Or if your spouse is more likely than not to become a PR at some point, given enough time, then starting now with an Integrated Shield plan could make a lot of sense. However, only select Integrated Shield plans are available to foreigners, at least to "dependent" foreigners such as spouses. Prudential's PRUshield Plus, designed for public hospital A ward coverage, is one such plan, and in my view it's currently the best in its class.

NTUC Income appears to be the only carrier offering an Integrated Shield plan geared toward public hospital B1 ward coverage (Enhanced IncomeShield Basic) to foreigners. NTUC Income is also the only carrier offering an Integrated Shield plan (Enhanced IncomeShield C) geared toward public hospital B2+ ward coverage to anybody, and they do sell it to foreigners. So those are foreigners' only Integrated Shield options below public hospital A ward level. The premium gap won't be as big, though, because foreigners do not benefit as much from subsidies, and consequently Prudential might offer the best value to foreigners among the Integrated Shield plan providers. However, NTUC's "C" plan is particularly interesting if your spouse has a pre-existing condition since it's better coordinated with the ward class (B2+ or lower) that he/she would most likely check into for cost reasons. If your spouse is female, please note that KK Hospital offers B2+ ward class, which is most probably the best value hospital ward in Singapore. (It's air conditioned! But it's also KK Hospital, and they're good.)

As far as I know you can pay for your foreign spouse's base Integrated Shield plan using Medisave funds, and that's helpful because those funds are tax advantaged. Other types of medical insurance are not Medisave payable.

If you can get your spouse covered through employer-provided medical insurance of some kind, likely in combination with Integrated Shield coverage, that's great. Or if your spouse him/herself is working in Singapore and getting some employer-provided medical coverage, awesome. Employers will sometimes do something reasonably sensible and coordinate their benefits with Integrated Shield coverage.

Quote:

is bupa as good , worse or better than cigna?
how easy or difficult are their claims process?
Now we're referring to "expatriate" oriented global medical insurance, and that can be the better option particularly when your spouse doesn't hail from a country offering a minimum fuss medical "backstop" and/or when your spouse is not expecting to stay in Singapore (not likely to be a PR in due course and to stay in Singapore in the future).

I had personal experience with group Cigna coverage for several years, and I loved it. It was gorgeous insurance, and I'm sure it was rather expensive, too. (I didn't pay for it, not directly anyway.) Claims processing was a bit on the slow side, and on a reimbursement basis almost always. But it was phenomenal coverage. There were no pre-existing condition limitations, no annual or lifetime caps, no waiting periods of any kind for newborns or for a new spouse, low out-of-pocket limits for covered services, and practically everything you can imagine and more was covered. It was also U.S. "Obamacare" compliant, and that's a good thing. Aetna, another U.S. carrier, is probably broadly similar for their top shelf group coverage.

If you're approaching your spouse's coverage from the non-group angle, then pre-existing conditions matter a lot. And the tricky part about pre-existing conditions is that an insurer won't cover them for individually issued policies (with some rare exceptions), so that means you'll naturally want to stick mostly or completely with the public medical system in Singapore. However, if your spouse is quite sure he/she doesn't have pre-existing medical conditions that could affect whether a claim is paid, then an individually issued "expat" policy could make some sense, particularly if your spouse's tastes in medical care run toward private medical care, if your spouse doesn't have reasonably fuss-free resumption of good public coverage in his/her home country, or if your spouse hops around the globe fairly often anyway. Decent or better "expat" medical insurance won't be inexpensive, though, but you can get some really good stuff if you're a good risk (no pre-existing conditions).

BBCWatcher 25-06-2018 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nash1999 (Post 115143034)
Just curious, what are your view on Critical Illness and Personal Accident?

Oversimplifying only slightly, CI and PA are older types of insurance (at least in Singapore), but as the article I linked to explains (and I agree), DII is a much higher insurance priority if you can get it. In other words, I don't think CI and PA fall into the essential insurance needs category.

DII does cover critical illnesses, accidents...any ailment or malady of any sort if it affects your ability to earn a living, and from that important point of view (defending income). (OK, with very few, universal exceptions like self-inflicted injuries, e.g. suicide attempts.) CI and PA are "named risks" types of insurance, whereas DII is an "all risks" type of insurance. I much prefer the latter. The article I linked to does a rather good job explaining the priorities, and I broadly agree with that article.

Another problem with CI and PA is that the payouts tend to be pretty limited. Imagine you're age 25, working and earning $3,500/month, and a bus runs you over and seriously messes you up. You can no longer work, for life. Wham, you've just lost $1.68 million of lifetime income ($3,500/month for 40 years, 2018 dollars, no salary increments assumed in this example). Do you know of any CI or PA policy that pays out anywhere near that much? I don't. It's $100K-$200K sort of payouts if you maximally qualify, typically. DII, however, pays out $1.24 million in this example (75% coverage less 6 months, to age 65). Aviva even offers a 3%/year payout escalating option once payouts start, and that could be quite useful. (There's a price for that, of course.) And no, that's not "cheap" insurance necessarily, but that's because it actually works.

....And if 75% coverage is too expensive right now, try 60% or 50%, then ratchet up when you can. Some decent coverage is better than none, and the "long tail" is the real risk you face if you're a working person (or about to work). Your biggest asset really is your future earning potential.

Shiny Things 26-06-2018 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBCWatcher (Post 115137166)
I'll restate some basic facts about me and leave it at that:

Also a BBC fan, so clearly you have excellent taste.

Drinks on me if you're ever on the west-coast-best-coast.

heng_ah 26-06-2018 01:43 AM

Excellent explanation on essential insurances. Subscribed!

assiak71 26-06-2018 08:15 AM

How on earth did you land on hwz?

Earnasyougrow 26-06-2018 09:27 AM

Signing in to support. Bookmarked.

lyndonmaxewell 26-06-2018 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by assiak71 (Post 115146095)
How on earth did you land on hwz?

Hardwarezone being a tech forum.. It all started when Mr BBCWatcher wanted to unlock his Softbank 708SC mobile phone.

intime 26-06-2018 09:33 AM

Chope seat.

vegavega25 26-06-2018 11:00 AM

Huge fan of BBCW, this thread is a fabulous idea.

foozgarden 26-06-2018 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBCWatcher (Post 115143078)
Your assumption translates into "not a Permanent Resident," so let's assume that.

If your spouse could hypothetically return to his/her country, re-establish residence there, and enjoy reasonable or better medical care in that country's public medical system, with minimum fuss, then a Singapore local Integrated Shield plan could be a good fit. Spouses from many developed countries, particularly from Europe, would fit that profile. Or if your spouse is more likely than not to become a PR at some point, given enough time, then starting now with an Integrated Shield plan could make a lot of sense. However, only select Integrated Shield plans are available to foreigners, at least to "dependent" foreigners such as spouses. Prudential's PRUshield Plus, designed for public hospital A ward coverage, is one such plan, and in my view it's currently the best in its class.

NTUC Income appears to be the only carrier offering an Integrated Shield plan geared toward public hospital B1 ward coverage (Enhanced IncomeShield Basic) to foreigners. NTUC Income is also the only carrier offering an Integrated Shield plan (Enhanced IncomeShield C) geared toward public hospital B2+ ward coverage to anybody, and they do sell it to foreigners. So those are foreigners' only Integrated Shield options below public hospital A ward level. The premium gap won't be as big, though, because foreigners do not benefit as much from subsidies, and consequently Prudential might offer the best value to foreigners among the Integrated Shield plan providers. However, NTUC's "C" plan is particularly interesting if your spouse has a pre-existing condition since it's better coordinated with the ward class (B2+ or lower) that he/she would most likely check into for cost reasons. If your spouse is female, please note that KK Hospital offers B2+ ward class, which is most probably the best value hospital ward in Singapore. (It's air conditioned! But it's also KK Hospital, and they're good.)

As far as I know you can pay for your foreign spouse's base Integrated Shield plan using Medisave funds, and that's helpful because those funds are tax advantaged. Other types of medical insurance are not Medisave payable.

If you can get your spouse covered through employer-provided medical insurance of some kind, likely in combination with Integrated Shield coverage, that's great. Or if your spouse him/herself is working in Singapore and getting some employer-provided medical coverage, awesome. Employers will sometimes do something reasonably sensible and coordinate their benefits with Integrated Shield coverage.


Now we're referring to "expatriate" oriented global medical insurance, and that can be the better option particularly when your spouse doesn't hail from a country offering a minimum fuss medical "backstop" and/or when your spouse is not expecting to stay in Singapore (not likely to be a PR in due course and to stay in Singapore in the future).

I had personal experience with group Cigna coverage for several years, and I loved it. It was gorgeous insurance, and I'm sure it was rather expensive, too. (I didn't pay for it, not directly anyway.) Claims processing was a bit on the slow side, and on a reimbursement basis almost always. But it was phenomenal coverage. There were no pre-existing condition limitations, no annual or lifetime caps, no waiting periods of any kind for newborns or for a new spouse, low out-of-pocket limits for covered services, and practically everything you can imagine and more was covered. It was also U.S. "Obamacare" compliant, and that's a good thing. Aetna, another U.S. carrier, is probably broadly similar for their top shelf group coverage.

If you're approaching your spouse's coverage from the non-group angle, then pre-existing conditions matter a lot. And the tricky part about pre-existing conditions is that an insurer won't cover them for individually issued policies (with some rare exceptions), so that means you'll naturally want to stick mostly or completely with the public medical system in Singapore. However, if your spouse is quite sure he/she doesn't have pre-existing medical conditions that could affect whether a claim is paid, then an individually issued "expat" policy could make some sense, particularly if your spouse's tastes in medical care run toward private medical care, if your spouse doesn't have reasonably fuss-free resumption of good public coverage in his/her home country, or if your spouse hops around the globe fairly often anyway. Decent or better "expat" medical insurance won't be inexpensive, though, but you can get some really good stuff if you're a good risk (no pre-existing conditions).

the plethora of info you have , puts me to shame, as a local.
i didnt even know so much abt ntuc and KK .

personally, i am using cigna, as an intl worker (i dont really like to use the word expat). but thats only me. for dependents, it becomes extremely expensive, which makes no sense. the total premium for single dependent is low 4 digit( usd)
hence, i have it only for myself. i agree its awesome. the deductable is reasonable, and i get my claims aka money within 2weeks. there are also alot of clinics/hospital which are in the network worldwide, and you dont have to pay out of pocket. thats why i was wondering if bupa is the same.
i have to look deeper into ntuc to cover ..
btw, how do you buy KK hospital insurance? is this specific to KK only?

BBCWatcher 26-06-2018 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foozgarden (Post 115154086)
btw, how do you buy KK hospital insurance? is this specific to KK only?

No, not at all. However, KK Hospital seems to be the only hospital in Singapore consistently offering B2+ ward as an option. NTUC's Enhanced IncomeShield C plan is designed to cover public hospital B2+ ward and below.

FYI, Pacific Prime has a pretty good online comparison tool for reviewing "expat" medical insurance policies.

foozgarden 26-06-2018 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBCWatcher (Post 115154571)
No, not at all. However, KK Hospital seems to be the only hospital in Singapore consistently offering B2+ ward as an option. NTUC's Enhanced IncomeShield C plan is designed to cover public hospital B2+ ward and below.

FYI, Pacific Prime has a pretty good online comparison tool for reviewing "expat" medical insurance policies.

looking at it now.. thanks BBCW!

klarklar 26-06-2018 06:02 PM

It is ironic that the 2 most helpful and knowledgeable participants about local personal finance issues on this MoneyMind forum are foreigners - BBCWatcher (American) and ShinyThings (Australian).

They are live testimonies that PAP's foreign talent policy is working well. LOL.

Xanthyon 26-06-2018 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by klarklar (Post 115155503)
It is ironic that the 2 most helpful and knowledgeable participants about local personal finance issues on this MoneyMind forum are foreigners - BBCWatcher (American) and ShinyThings (Australian).

They are live testimonies that PAP's foreign talent policy is working well. LOL.

Sampling bias lah. For every ST/BBCW, thereís another 10000 useless FTs out there.

In any case, Iím here to +1 and support BBCW thread :D


All times are GMT +8. The time now is 08:56 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright © SPH Magazines Pte Ltd. All rights reserved.