*Official* Shiny Things club - Part 2

Status
Not open for further replies.

BBCWatcher

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Messages
20,220
Reaction score
3,059
Leaving your CPF mostly in cash is a pretty good option. CPF cash pays interest rates that are well above market; it's literally free money.
Once you have maxed out your Special Account transfers and top ups, and you then have Ordinary Account dollars piling up with a long enough time horizon, you could consider investing those OA dollars in something like a stock index fund (the lowest cost one you can find).
 

flowerpalms

High Supremacy Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2018
Messages
47,041
Reaction score
14,854
jr02jDU.jpg




I don't know who "we" is, but it doesn't include basic math.
 

cytosine12

Junior Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2019
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
If I can invest $1000 a month for a year. What is the most hassle free long term investment I can make?

I was thinking of 80% POSB Invest Saver STI ETF and 20% REITs. Keen to hear any comments.
 
Last edited:

Okenba

Supremacy Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2012
Messages
5,330
Reaction score
1,006
Newbie Question...

Hullo. I'm new to this investing thing and thought to get some advice from the more experienced folks.

Am intending the invest both in SRS and in Cash.
Would there be a difference in the broker I choose? Which would you advise and why?

In terms of what to invest in, I am thinking more of overseas ETFs. Likely a Global Irish domiciled ETF. Since this is sold in the London Stock Exchange, how would this impact my choice of broker? Which broker would be cheapest for UK listed ETFs? Do they deal with both Cash and SRS?

Many thanks in advance.
 

Okenba

Supremacy Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2012
Messages
5,330
Reaction score
1,006
If I can invest $1000 a month for a year. What is the most hassle free long term investment I can make?

I was thinking of 80% POSB Invest Saver STI ETF and 20% REITs. Keen to hear any comments.

Why not leave it with a Robo?
Most Robos will also do monthly DCA for you and the risk is usually more US or global as opposed to STI and reits which would be more SG focused.

I'm not sure how the fees for POSB would compare but Robo fees are about 0.5-0.8% and ETF fees of about 0.3-0.5% I think. So total fees of about 0.8-1.2% plus whatever platform fees.
 
Joined
Feb 6, 2019
Messages
100
Reaction score
0
Hi ST and BBC,

Been reading up about ETFs like AOM, AOR from ishares. It seems they provide a diversified allocation in a single fund. Their expense ratios looks reasonable. Are they suitable for Singaporeans? Are there any hidden fees? Or do we have anything similar available?
 

BBCWatcher

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Messages
20,220
Reaction score
3,059
Been reading up about ETFs like AOM, AOR from ishares. It seems they provide a diversified allocation in a single fund. Their expense ratios looks reasonable. Are they suitable for Singaporeans?
Except for Singaporeans who are U.S. persons or who live in certain countries with U.S. tax treaties, no.

The closest analogs I’ve seen so far are some of Lion Global’s unit trusts, but most people will do better (have lower costs) assembling their own portfolios using two or three funds.

The U.S. markets now offer so-called “target date” funds, and those are even better than the so-called “lifecycle funds” for general retirement investing if you’re a U.S. person. Last I checked Schwab is the low cost leader in target date funds, and Vanguard is also quite competitive. Unfortunately there aren’t any attractive target date funds available to Singaporean investors yet.
 

little pupsky

Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2016
Messages
348
Reaction score
71
Expense ratios of above 0.3% are considered expensive. Adding platform fees whatsoever above that is daylight robbery.

These days you can DIY and get great funds at 0.0x% to 0.3%.

I'm not sure how the fees for POSB would compare but Robo fees are about 0.5-0.8% and ETF fees of about 0.3-0.5% I think. So total fees of about 0.8-1.2% plus whatever platform fees.
 

EmporioArmani

Member
Joined
May 23, 2017
Messages
197
Reaction score
5
A question to ask, ST.

I agree with your concepts of buy and hold, with the indexes that you have recommended.

But let's say we have a financial crisis right now, should we still be holding on to our stocks tight?

Sent from Xiaomi MI 8 using GAGT
 

limster

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2000
Messages
11,461
Reaction score
2,471
A question to ask, ST.

I agree with your concepts of buy and hold, with the indexes that you have recommended.

But let's say we have a financial crisis right now, should we still be holding on to our stocks tight?

Sent from Xiaomi MI 8 using GAGT

When something is on super cheap sale, surely you should be buying not selling?

Last GFC I bought lots of stocks cheap and since then I have been collecting dividends from those stocks every year. This is the power of passive income!
 

chrisloh65

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2019
Messages
2,245
Reaction score
264
You should not be holding the stocks just before the financial crisis.
Once you know there is a financial crisis right now, most likely you are too late to sell.

It is obviously that if you can sell just before financial crisis and buy just before financial crisis ended, you would make biggest money of all time (don't believe people who you tell otherwise and that this is going to no difference from DCA and buy and hold forever). The only issue here is whether you could do that or not with such good timing (which ultimately depends on your knowledge and skills). The truth is, actually you don't need to that precise in timing, just around there and you would still make much more money than people who DCA and buy and hold forever.


A question to ask, ST.

I agree with your concepts of buy and hold, with the indexes that you have recommended.

But let's say we have a financial crisis right now, should we still be holding on to our stocks tight?

Sent from Xiaomi MI 8 using GAGT
 

EmporioArmani

Member
Joined
May 23, 2017
Messages
197
Reaction score
5
When something is on super cheap sale, surely you should be buying not selling?

Last GFC I bought lots of stocks cheap and since then I have been collecting dividends from those stocks every year. This is the power of passive income!
You should not be holding the stocks just before the financial crisis.
Once you know there is a financial crisis right now, most likely you are too late to sell.

It is obviously that if you can sell just before financial crisis and buy just before financial crisis ended, you would make biggest money of all time (don't believe people who you tell otherwise and that this is going to no difference from DCA and buy and hold forever). The only issue here is whether you could do that or not with such good timing (which ultimately depends on your knowledge and skills). The truth is, actually you don't need to that precise in timing, just around there and you would still make much more money than people who DCA and buy and hold forever.
Thanks guys for your input! What you guys says make sense.

How many % of your portfolio are kept in Cash as warchest, if you don't mind me asking?

I have a lower salary, have all my basics covered such as Emergency Funds, no debts etc.
So whenever i saved up an extra 4-5K, i would look for stocks to buy in and hold, so technically I don't really have extra money to whack during Financial Crisis.

Am i doing things wrong?

Sent from Xiaomi MI 8 using GAGT
 

Prof. Utonium

High Supremacy Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
33,903
Reaction score
3,867
A question to ask, ST.

I agree with your concepts of buy and hold, with the indexes that you have recommended.

But let's say we have a financial crisis right now, should we still be holding on to our stocks tight?

Sent from Xiaomi MI 8 using GAGT

To add on what the other 2 had contributed, if you are able to time the market then it is like striking a lottery. More often than not, we are not able to time it.

If you have long term horizon, then hold it to ride out the turbulence. If you keep timing and fail, you will incur losses due to valuation and fees.
 

highsulphur

Great Supremacy Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
65,995
Reaction score
31,517
You should not be holding the stocks just before the financial crisis.
Once you know there is a financial crisis right now, most likely you are too late to sell.

It is obviously that if you can sell just before financial crisis and buy just before financial crisis ended, you would make biggest money of all time (don't believe people who you tell otherwise and that this is going to no difference from DCA and buy and hold forever). The only issue here is whether you could do that or not with such good timing (which ultimately depends on your knowledge and skills). The truth is, actually you don't need to that precise in timing, just around there and you would still make much more money than people who DCA and buy and hold forever.

Oh... You will be getting a few responses soon
 

highsulphur

Great Supremacy Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
65,995
Reaction score
31,517
Who is to say when does the financial crisis start and end?

Industrial and economic data have been weak since beginning of this year but global indices are holding well. It's hard to time the market when the real and financial markets are not moving in line. Just stick with the plan and carry on
 

BBCWatcher

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Messages
20,220
Reaction score
3,059
Who is to say when does the financial crisis start and end?
We’ve had only two global financial crises within the past 100+ years: the Great Depression and the Global Financial Crisis. If the future is similar to the past, a financial crisis is probably not coming within your investing lifetime.
 

popol

Junior Member
Joined
May 31, 2001
Messages
48
Reaction score
1
Enquiries

Hi Josh
Thanks for your responses to my earlier questions. I got some additional questions.

1. In your 'Rich by Retirement' book, page 91. FU money is computed as Monthly Expenses divided by 3%. In the example, Monthly Expenses is $3,200. That is the required amount today. Shouldn't we adjust that amount for inflation when we retire in X years, then divide by 3% to get the FU money?

2. In your book, your suggested strategy is to invest in IWDA, Local Stock ETF and Local Bond ETF. Why don't you also consider an Emerging Market ETF?

3. I understand that IWDA dividends are reinvested. How does it actually work internally?

4. I buy IWDA on the London Stock Exchange. Which services provides live prices?

5. Ascott Residence Trust is combining with Ascendas Hospitality Trust. What is the implication for a holder of Ascott Residence Trust?

Thanks!
 

Shiny Things

Supremacy Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2009
Messages
9,417
Reaction score
611
I see IB now has a "lite" plan with no account maintenance fee?

Not available to Singaporean investors yet, unfortunately.


Hi Josh
Thanks for your responses to my earlier questions. I got some additional questions.

1. In your 'Rich by Retirement' book, page 91. FU money is computed as Monthly Expenses divided by 3%. In the example, Monthly Expenses is $3,200. That is the required amount today. Shouldn't we adjust that amount for inflation when we retire in X years,

1) Yearly expenses / 3%, not monthly;
2) No, because "f*ck-you money" is the amount of money you need to be able to say "f*ck you" to your boss right now. That does make it a bit of a moving target.

2. In your book, your suggested strategy is to invest in IWDA, Local Stock ETF and Local Bond ETF. Why don't you also consider an Emerging Market ETF?

Mostly because an emerging-market ETF isn't going to make up a big percentage of your portfolio (it's like 10% of your 'stocks' allocation at most, so call it 5-8% of most people's total portfolio?). That's not a lot; and in most cases, it won't make a huge difference to your total returns - but it will significantly increase the amount of commissions you pay.

3. I understand that IWDA dividends are reinvested. How does it actually work internally?

Instead of the dividends being passed on by the fund to its shareholders, the fund manager uses the dividends to buy more of the stocks that the fund owns. That's pretty much it.

4. I buy IWDA on the London Stock Exchange. Which services provides live prices?

Google Finance is fine*

5. Ascott Residence Trust is combining with Ascendas Hospitality Trust. What is the implication for a holder of Ascott Residence Trust?

Thanks!

No idea tbqh; I hardly ever look at single-stocks, I've realized I'm just not that good at them.

Industrial and economic data have been weak since beginning of this year but global indices are holding well. It's hard to time the market when the real and financial markets are not moving in line. Just stick with the plan and carry on

Yeah, honestly, this is pretty good advice. The stock market and the economy are not the same thing.

How many % of your portfolio are kept in Cash as warchest, if you don't mind me asking?

None.

I have a lower salary, have all my basics covered such as Emergency Funds, no debts etc.
So whenever i saved up an extra 4-5K, i would look for stocks to buy in and hold, so technically I don't really have extra money to whack during Financial Crisis.

Am i doing things wrong?

Nope, you're doing it fine. There are two things to remember:

1) When you have a balanced stock-and-bond portfolio, your portfolio itself is your war-chest. If bonds are weak, then you'll sell stocks to buy bonds as part of your regular rebalancing; if stocks are weak, then you'll sell bonds to buy stocks. Either way, you end up buying the thing that's cheap and selling the thing that's expensive.

2) The 2008 financial crisis was a once-in-a-lifetime event. If you're waiting for a similar magnitude of crisis before you start buying, you're going to be waiting a long time.


A question to ask, ST.

I agree with your concepts of buy and hold, with the indexes that you have recommended.

But let's say we have a financial crisis right now, should we still be holding on to our stocks tight?

Yes - and if anything, you should be buying more. Anyone who bought stocks during the '08 financial crisis has done pretty well for themselves after ten years of capital growth and dividends.

I pull out this anecdote a lot, but I still have the trade ticket for a clip of SPY that I bought in March 2009 at $72 a share.

When something is on super cheap sale, surely you should be buying not selling?

Last GFC I bought lots of stocks cheap and since then I have been collecting dividends from those stocks every year. This is the power of passive income!

This!

Hi ST and BBC,

Been reading up about ETFs like AOM, AOR from ishares. It seems they provide a diversified allocation in a single fund. Their expense ratios looks reasonable. Are they suitable for Singaporeans? Are there any hidden fees? Or do we have anything similar available?

1) No, unfortunately. There's a lot of funds out there that are fine for US taxpayers, but not suitable for non-US taxpayers (because of the unfavorable dividend tax treatment on US shares).
2) Nope.
3) Nope. There are robo-advisors in Singapore that do similar things, but there aren't any that I'd be ready to recommend yet. All of them have some sort of failings.

Am intending the invest both in SRS and in Cash.
Would there be a difference in the broker I choose? Which would you advise and why?

In terms of what to invest in, I am thinking more of overseas ETFs. Likely a Global Irish domiciled ETF. Since this is sold in the London Stock Exchange, how would this impact my choice of broker? Which broker would be cheapest for UK listed ETFs? Do they deal with both Cash and SRS?

So we go over this pretty often. For your cash account, the rule is:
* If you have $1000 a month or more to invest, or you have an account value over $100k: use Stanchart for local stocks, and Interactive Brokers for global stocks (your overseas ETFs);
* If you have less than $1000 a month to invest and your account value is less than $100k: use POSB IS for your local stocks, and Stanchart for your global stocks.

For the SRS account, they're all equally meh. DBSV is fine.

If I can invest $1000 a month for a year. What is the most hassle free long term investment I can make?

I was thinking of 80% POSB Invest Saver STI ETF and 20% REITs. Keen to hear any comments.

You're going to be investing for a lot longer than a year.

You're very well suited for a simple three-fund portfolio like the one we advocate here. It gives you some stock exposure; some global exposure so you're not 100% concentrated in Singapore; and some bond exposure, so you've got some protection if and when stock markets dip. It'll be better than what you suggested - more stable, more diversified, and almost as easy to implement.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Important Forum Advisory Note
This forum is moderated by volunteer moderators who will react only to members' feedback on posts. Moderators are not employees or representatives of HWZ. Forum members and moderators are responsible for their own posts.

Please refer to our Community Guidelines and Standards, Terms of Service and Member T&Cs for more information.
Top