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Citibank Maxigain Savings Account

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Old 06-11-2018, 11:50 PM   #3946
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What person is that exactly? One who seems to expect their bank statement to also explain how the interest paid was calculated. I don't know of any bank who does that... One who, when his calculations don't add up, thinks that "the bank is wrong", rather than "where did *I* go wrong in my calculations?".. One whose method of trying to figure out if the bank's interest calculation is correct, or wrong, by not banking in more money the following month.

It isn't rocket science, but I'd reckon you're backing the wrong horse there.
I'm not backing anyone, just saying that if you don't want to help others, can just don't reply, don't always have to be sarcastic and say "Oh just go and read the T&Cs, everything is explained fully down there". Like that might as well just close this thread, since everything is already explained in the T&Cs and it is not complex that everyone should understand. I was one of the earlier person who didn't fully understand the T&Cs originally and the account (it took me a few reads and each read were after a few months) and everytime this thread surfaced to the top, always the top few posts were ppl shooting down newbies and asking them to read the T&Cs thats why I didn't open the account and I feel really wasted now that's why I feel this way.

I'm actually inclined to believe, most staff had correctly explained it - just that the person either misunderstood, or failed to understand what they were told.

I'm not saying mistakes weren't made - it is indeed possible they were mistaken too - but I'm actually a pretty happy Citi customer, and never had any major issues with them. As I was an existing Citi customer, my MaxiGain a/c was opened simply by making a phone call, so it's quite hard for me to appreciate the grief a number of posters here have experienced.
You already mentioned you are an existing Citi customer. That alone is very different from someone trying to open a new account with 0 balance with no intention of signing up any credit cards or loans. Can't believe you aren't able to see that a person with 200k and a person with 15k or less will get different kinds of treatments at times (not by all staff, but at least some).
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Old 06-11-2018, 11:58 PM   #3947
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Aiya, it's really tedious to calculate ma. Especially if the account is not idling ma. I mean it's still possible to calculate lah. But it really doesn't worth the effort ma. Just trust the bank is correct, take the interest and be happy lah.
Yes, it's definitely more tedious to help a newbie out when you already have all the calculations at the back of your end than to spend time being sarcastic and directing people to read the T&Cs.

Ever wondered why so much more people have apprehension towards helping newbies explaining the Citibank Maxigain Account compared to something else like Singapore Savings Bond,DBS multiplier or something else ? Only in this thread can we see so much more ppl being sarcastic towards newbie questions compared to the other banking products.

The reason is simple - because you guys put in more effort to read and that's the reason why you don't want to spoonfeed the newbies. And why did you guys put in more effort? Because the T&Cs isn't as simple to understand as what you all think. That's why you all subconsciously think that all newbies should go through the same pain as you towards understanding the product themselves, even though you may not have realized it! as you guys have put in the hard work !
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Old 07-11-2018, 12:01 AM   #3948
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I'm not backing anyone, just saying that if you don't want to help others, can just don't reply, don't always have to be sarcastic and say "Oh just go and read the T&Cs, everything is explained fully down there". Like that might as well just close this thread, since everything is already explained in the T&Cs and it is not complex that everyone should understand. I was one of the earlier person who didn't fully understand the T&Cs originally and the account (it took me a few reads and each read were after a few months) and everytime this thread surfaced to the top, always the top few posts were ppl shooting down newbies and asking them to read the T&Cs thats why I didn't open the account and I feel really wasted now that's why I feel this way.
He indicated that his statement did not explain how the interest was calculated. I provided him the link to the document that does exactly that.

I also mentioned the main points required to accurately calculate the interest he should receive, as well as asked him to post the information required for someone else to calculate it for him.

I hardly think my posts have not been helpful.

On the other hand, could you please share how *your* posts are in anyway helpful at all?

You already mentioned you are an existing Citi customer. That alone is very different from someone trying to open a new account with 0 balance with no intention of signing up any credit cards or loans. Can't believe you aren't able to see that a person with 200k and a person with 15k or less will get different kinds of treatments at times (not by all staff, but at least some).
And I find it hard to understand how you're connecting the dots here.

I was just sharing that as an existing customer, it was easy for me to open an account, and so I don't know what the new customers are going though.

However, it doesn't change the fact that, regardless of how the account was opened, the interest calculation remains the same. I didn't need the bank staff to explain how the account works, because I read their website + T&C, and it was all pretty self explanatory with worked examples to help anyone understand.
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Old 07-11-2018, 12:04 AM   #3949
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Because the T&Cs isn't as simple to understand as what you all think.
Please tell us, exactly which clause in the T&C did you have a hard time understanding?

Those of us who are telling people to read the T&C, is simply because it is abundantly clear that they have *not* read it, nor have they even *tried* to do so.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't force it to drink.
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Old 07-11-2018, 12:08 AM   #3950
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I hardly think my posts have not been helpful.

On the other hand, could you please share how *your* posts are in anyway helpful at all?
My reply alone here pinpointed his problem : https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/1...-post3935.html because I took the time to understand his problem and question. Because I had read the same thing before and missed it/misunderstood it before myself.

Instead of just typing a wall of text being sarcastic and saying "calculations are all in the T&Cs, here is the link, go read it yourself". Definitely more helpful than yours to him.
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Old 07-11-2018, 12:16 AM   #3951
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Please tell us, exactly which clause in the T&C did you have a hard time understanding?

Those of us who are telling people to read the T&C, is simply because it is abundantly clear that they have *not* read it, nor have they even *tried* to do so.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't force it to drink.
I didnt understand the base+bonus interest wasn't capped at 2%

I didnt understand how the counter increment worked

I didnt understand how the bonus interest's calculations was actually based on the previous month's lowest balance

I didnt understand why you can withdraw the interest earned without incurring any sort of penalty

I didnt understand why ppl keep harping on opening the account near the end of the month or topping up the account the same day it is funded(i thought it would delay the counter by 1 month, but actually it only affected the interest)

Yes, maybe I am stupid, but that's the reason why this kind of thread exist and I found this thread. to ask questions and to search for posts for similar questions which others have asked before. it was only through a combination of searching for past so-called "stupid questions" on this thread + re-reading the T&Cs that brought my understanding to a different level. sometimes some ppl might just have overlooked a small and minor thing and all it takes is a small nudge to enlighten them.

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Old 07-11-2018, 12:32 AM   #3952
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My reply alone here pinpointed his problem : https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/1...-post3935.html because I took the time to understand his problem and question. Because I had read the same thing before and missed it/misunderstood it before myself.

Instead of just typing a wall of text being sarcastic and saying "calculations are all in the T&Cs, here is the link, go read it yourself". Definitely more helpful than yours to him.
a) I've posted the exact same thing before...

https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/m...#post117273499

https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/m...#post117274581

b) I don't believe you've identified his problem, simply because bonus interest is easy to calculate, and he had indicated "is it maybe because during certain day s of the month i bank in some money? "

And, if that was the problem, he would instead have been asking about bonus interest. Instead, he's asking about both components, so obv that is one, but his base interest calculations is also off too.

c) He was specifically asking "but they didnt mention how it was calculated", which pointing to the T&C would have been the correct response.
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Old 07-11-2018, 12:55 AM   #3953
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I didnt understand the base+bonus interest wasn't capped at 2%

I didnt understand how the counter increment worked

I didnt understand how the bonus interest's calculations was actually based on the previous month's lowest balance

I didnt understand why you can withdraw the interest earned without incurring any sort of penalty

I didnt understand why ppl keep harping on opening the account near the end of the month or topping up the account the same day it is funded(i thought it would delay the counter by 1 month, but actually it only affected the interest)

Yes, maybe I am stupid, but that's the reason why this kind of thread exist and I found this thread. to ask questions and to search for posts for similar questions which others have asked before. it was only through a combination of searching for past so-called "stupid questions" on this thread + re-reading the T&Cs that brought my understanding to a different level. sometimes some ppl might just have overlooked a small and minor thing and all it takes is a small nudge to enlighten them.
That wasn't my question. My question was, which clause in the T&C did you have trouble understanding?

Because reading the T&C would have addressed *all* your questions above.

a) What made you ever think there was a 2% cap? The number 2% never appears anywhere in the T&C at all...

b) Addressed with point 6 of the T&C...

c) If you understood how the account worked, you would understand why. If you didn't understand how the account worked, why would it matter?

d.1) There is no difference opening at the beginning or end of the month, because interest is p.a.; which is indicated everywhere the T&C mentions interest payable.

d.2) Addressed on their website *and* with point 7 *and* 6 in the T&C.

d) It sounds like you're still mistaken. It affects the counter, hence affecting the interest. Not funding it on the first day effectively affects your interest over the next 12 months, hence the urgency to fund it on account opening.

Try reading this post.

Now, let's try again:
You said when you read the T&C, and had a hard time understanding it, and you had to read it several times.

Exactly which clause(s) in the T&C did you have a hard time understanding?
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Old 07-11-2018, 01:58 AM   #3954
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guys, sorry that my posting had cause so much debut. My misunderstanding was clear when 'havetheveryfun" answer to my doubt . Tnk bro.
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Old 07-11-2018, 07:18 AM   #3955
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That wasn't my question. My question was, which clause in the T&C did you have trouble understanding?

Exactly which clause(s) in the T&C did you have a hard time understanding?
already said I had trouble understanding the T&Cs or the account itself. why need to be what clause or not?

Simply put, I read and didn't understand everything about how the account worked the first read. That's all there is to it. You can say the T&Cs explained this and can pinpoint every single clause that explains what I didn't understand, so what? It's the same like saying insurance plans have T&Cs that explained everything so clearly with benefit illustrations and even more examples and yet people also don't understand. They don't even understand what kind of illnesses they can claim for when EVERYTHING is listed clearly in their premium booklet.

TLDR: Just because an article explains everything clearly, doesn't mean everyone will be able to understand the article on the first read. Not everyone is as smart or as savvy as you guys. That's all I am saying.
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Old 07-11-2018, 10:04 AM   #3956
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already said I had trouble understanding the T&Cs or the account itself. why need to be what clause or not?
Because 3 out of 4 of your questions was clearly and directly answered by the T&C. (a/c/d).

While (a) might have required you to actually think a little, (c) and (d) did not.

Simply put, I read and didn't understand everything about how the account worked the first read.
Was Citi's website about MaxiGain so hard to understand how the account works?

The basic overview of the account is explained there. The detailed explanation is in the T&C.

If these two sources of information was not able to clearly explain to someone how the account generally works, no amount of explanation by a human staff would have helped them.

Generally, the other questions people here have relate to how to min-max the account, which actually requires them to think. It's not something that can easily be explained, and even when we spell it out, they get the simplest concepts wrong - concepts that have already been written out and were explained clearly by the above. (eg: bonus interest is the lowest balance of the previous month... interest is calculated daily and posted monthly... why is Citi's SIBOR value different from what I can find online... etc)

And, as others have explained, the efforts to min-max is really just a few cents in interest difference, so it really doesn't matter (unless you're trying to push $100million into the account - people with such resources however tend to either (a) not care, or (b) are able to figure it out). Just open the account, is the overall recommendation.

The other main issue is, people who are having trouble opening the account, because bank staff throws up some random rumor to discourage them. This thread has been shooting those rumors down, advising people on how to insist opening the account, and not worry about those rumors as they're generally baseless.

That's all there is to it. You can say the T&Cs explained this and can pinpoint every single clause that explains what I didn't understand, so what?
So what? So then it becomes clear that you didn't even try to read the document, at the time when you were unsure about those answers - because if you did, you would have the answers to most of your questions (3 out of 4).

It's the same like saying insurance plans have T&Cs that explained everything so clearly with benefit illustrations and even more examples and yet people also don't understand. They don't even understand what kind of illnesses they can claim for when EVERYTHING is listed clearly in their premium booklet.
Apples and oranges. Citi's MaxiGain T&C is not like an insurance plan T&C. It's only 2 pages long, of which almost 1 page is worked examples. It's one of the few T&Cs that is actually *easy* to understand, if you stopped to read it. It does not use legal jargon (with the exception of p.a.; which isn't really a concept that this document needs to address).

TLDR: Just because an article explains everything clearly, doesn't mean everyone will be able to understand the article on the first read. Not everyone is as smart or as savvy as you guys. That's all I am saying.
And, what I am saying is, anyone who can't understand it, is highly likely to also misunderstand the explanation by a bank staff. Hence, the bank staff would have to resort to a simplified (but slightly inaccurate) explanation, like what the website does.

Then people go off on these forums how they received bad info - when the problem really is simply them not being able to understand what they were told.

If someone wants the details on how to min-max this account, they can simply blindly follow the advice of the people on this thread. But if they want to check for themselves *why* those recommendations are made (which is a good thing to do, because some of the recommendations here are a little misguided), they need to read and understand the T&C - a short document that is really just one page long.

You, on the other hand, have posted one useful piece of information - which I had already posted twice before, and then a whole tirade of how difficult the T&C was to understand (when it actually isn't) and picking a bone with people who recommend others to read it, as it directly answers the questions they are asking.

Get off your high horse, and don't think that you're the only person who is being helpful here. Others are posting constructive information that are generally trying to help others too - except, one of the best recommendations has always been "read the T&C" for questions that are *directly* answered by that document. Instead, your insistence that it is difficult to understand is actually counter productive - especially when you refuse to point out what is difficult in that document, so that we can help others who may have similar confusion on those parts.

Hence my question: Which clauses did you have trouble understanding; because if you can point some of those out, we would then be able use that as a base on how to advise and clarify the confusion over it; but it's quite easy to understand, and so we don't know how to further advise than 'read the T&C'.

That said, there is actually a loophole (error) in the T&C, which can be exploited if you care to shuffle money around at account opening to try gain an extra $1 from the bank (it's in pt 6). Chances are it won't pay off, and the efforts to wrangle that $1 from the bank would far exceed that amount.

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Old 07-11-2018, 10:48 AM   #3957
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Because 3 out of 4 of your questions was clearly and directly answered by the T&C. (a/c/d).

While (a) might have required you to actually think a little, (c) and (d) did not.
omg.. do you not understand my english or what.. i admit my grammar is bad and my english sucks. dont know how many times need to repeat just because the T&C answers everything directly doesn't mean people can understand it the first time they read it, as they might have missed out certain points/overlooked certain points, even if you might have answered it before. plus, I didnt say you weren't helpful in the past as I have not seen your posts, but only in this particular instance (you could have posted that answer before, so what? it was not helpful to the poster in this instance as it may not be easy to dig through so many pages), and my original post was directed towards JuniorLion more than you.

And, as others have explained, the efforts to min-max is really just a few cents in interest difference, so it really doesn't matter (unless you're trying to push $100million into the account - people with such resources however tend to either (a) not care, or (b) are able to figure it out). Just open the account, is the overall recommendation.
Context, context. All my replies were more towards foxer77 case. How would you know his difference was just a few cents and not a few dollars or tens of dollars? A few cents might not mean a lot of things to others but a few dollars definitely does.

You, on the other hand, have posted one useful piece of information - which I had already posted twice before, and then a whole tirade of how difficult the T&C was to understand (when it actually isn't) and picking a bone with people who recommend others to read it, as it directly answers the questions they are asking.
Context, context again. I posted one useful piece of information, directly helping out someone who asked a question relating to it. You may have posted that piece of advice before, so what? It may not have been that helpful in this particular instance, as the forumer might have had difficulty searching for that answer. Doesn't mean your rpevious post wasn't helpful, just that it wasn't in this particular instance.

Get off your high horse, and don't think that you're the only person who is being helpful here. Others are posting constructive information that are generally trying to help others too - except, one of the best recommendations has always been "read the T&C" for questions that are *directly* answered by that document. Instead, your insistence that it is difficult to understand is actually counter productive - especially when you refuse to point out what is difficult in that document, so that we can help others who may have similar confusion on those parts.
When did I ever say I didn't think other people weren't helpful in this thread? Again, context, context. My peeve was with JL (as JL probably didnt understand his question either) directing foxer77 towards the TnCs, when obviously foxer77 didn't understand/overlooked something (you can say that he is lazy or didnt bother to read or whatever) in the TnCs. And all it took was just a bit of effort to try and understand his problem and type a single line which answered his query, instead of brushing him off with "read the TnCs, everything is explained clearly there". You can say that people do not take the time to understand the TnCs, but the same can be said so for people not trying to understand the question, just like you didn't either based on your replies.

Anyway, there is no point arguing about this anymore as it is a clash of belief systems. You, JL and others think that the TnCs explains everything clearly and people should not be spoonfed and should take the time to read through the whole thing themselves and understand. I, on the other hand, like to be spoonfeed and will spoonfeed others whenever I can and if it is possible within my means.

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Old 07-11-2018, 10:51 AM   #3958
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omg.. do you not understand my english or what.. i admit my grammar is bad and my english sucks. dont know how many times need to repeat just because the T&C answers everything directly doesn't mean people can understand it the first time they read it, as they might have missed out certain points/overlooked certain points, even if you might have answered it before. plus, I didnt say you weren't helpful in the past as I have not seen your posts, but only in this particular instance (you could have posted that answer before, so what? it was not helpful to the poster in this instance as it may not be easy to dig through so many pages), and my original post was directed towards JuniorLion more than you.



Context, context. All my replies were more towards foxer77 case. How would you know his difference was just a few cents and not a few dollars or tens of dollars? A few cents might not mean a lot of things to others but a few dollars definitely does.



Context, context again. I posted one useful piece of information, directly helping out someone who asked a question relating to it. You may have posted that piece of advice before, so what? It may not have been that helpful in this particular instance, as the forumer might have had difficulty searching for that answer. Doesn't mean your rpevious post wasn't helpful, just that it wasn't in this particular instance.



When did I ever say I didn't think other people weren't helpful in this thread? Again, context, context. My peeve was with JL (as JL probably didnt understand his question either) directing foxer77 towards the TnCs, when obviously foxer77 didn't understand/overlooked something (you can say that he is lazy or didnt bother to read or whatever) in the TnCs. And all it took was just a bit of effort to try and understand his problem and type a single line which answered his query, instead of brushing him off with "read the TnCs, everything is explained clearly there". You can say that people do not take the time to understand the TnCs, but the same can be said so for people not trying to understand the question.

Anyway, there is no point arguing about this anymore as it is a clash of belief systems. You think that the TnCs explains everything clearly and people should not be spoonfed and should take the time to read through the whole thing themselves and understand. I, on the other hand, like to be spoonfeed and will spoonfeed others whenever I can and if it is possible within my means.
And, despite having directly ask you 4 times, you *still* won't share what did you find difficult to understand in the T&C.

My best guess? Because after you took the time to read it, you actually found out that it was actually *easy* to understand after all.

Zzz

You know what's really unhelpful here? People who tell others they aren't being helpful, and people who keep insisting the T&C is hard to understand, when it actually isn't. If you didn't figure it out already, that would be some (or, I would actually say most) of your (recent) posts; and then trying to justify their position. I'm glad you decided to stop. =)

Feel free to keep spoonfeeding others; but don't hold your breath while waiting to be spoonfed yourself.
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Old 07-11-2018, 10:58 AM   #3959
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And, despite having asked 3 times, you still won't share what did you find difficult to understand in the T&C.

My best guess? Because after you took the time to read it, you actually found out that it was actually *easy* to understand after all.

Zzz
OMFG.. wonder who is on the high horse here now.

I already mentioned what I had difficulties understanding in this post as per ur request. but it doesn't mean i dont understand them now. u wanted them as an example, i gave it to u, but u want to take those replies and spin it out of context.

And yes, the TnCs explained all my queries, but I also mentioned in that post, it took me "a combination of searching for past so-called "stupid questions" on this thread + re-reading the T&Cs that brought my understanding to a different level". The T&Cs answered my queries, but the process definitely wasn't *easy*.

You know what's really unhelpful here? People who tell others they aren't being helpful. If you didn't figure it out already, that would be some (or, I would actually say most) of your (recent) posts; and then trying to justify their position
Oh, the irony. The same can be the said for most of your (recent) posts replying to my "un-helpful posts".

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Old 07-11-2018, 11:07 AM   #3960
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Cool it guys. Coming in to stop this before infractions are issued. Treat this as a last warning from the moderating team.

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