Cpf min sum should be review as many ppl out of job

[Kaypohji]

They didn’t. But they didn’t say they won’t also.

The general public don’t need to understand in details cause not all singaporeans are well versed in finance for example.

I think government can improve our confidence in them by showing us they don’t suka suka keep making cpf money harder to withdraw every few years. And give us some option I hope.

I think with confidence in our government, this thread can close liao

Based on whatever data or economic climate at that time la. It can also stay stagnant for many years ma. Did they put it into the constitution that the increase of 3% is fixed for the next 20 years? They didn’t what. So what makes you think it will remain at 3%?

There’s a difference between you not knowing the basis and there being no basis.

There are things that can be improved for sure.

But u must understand that what you don’t understand doesn’t mean the policy is bad. It’s just that you don’t understand hence you feel it’s bad.

 

[Kaypohji]

Oh btw cpf life is supposed to help those non financial savvy singaporeans even more since they r more likely to have no other investments and needed to depend on cpf as their sole income

But ironically unless one has high income or know how to plan their cpf money (which this group of ppl is not), they r usually the group that is most likely unable to attain frs or ers....

 

[proton_cannon]

Oh btw cpf life is supposed to help those non financial savvy singaporeans even more since they r more likely to have no other investments and needed to depend on cpf as their sole income

But ironically unless one has high income or know how to plan their cpf money (which this group of ppl is not), they r usually the group that is most likely unable to attain frs or ers....

Yes, you are right, if one is not gainfully employed with good salary or have a successful self-employment for a good part of his life, its unlikely one can hit the ever increasing FRS or maybe even BRS

 

[reddevil0728]

They didn’t. But they didn’t say they won’t also.

The general public don’t need to understand in details cause not all singaporeans are well versed in finance for example.

I think government can improve our confidence in them by showing us they don’t suka suka keep making cpf money harder to withdraw every few years. And give us some option I hope.

I think with confidence in our government, this thread can close liao

PAP maybe elected bow but how sure are you they will still be in power in the next election?

The public doesn’t need to fully understand, but a lot of times the public just kp about something they they don’t understand about like what’s happening now. How do you think they can show?

 

[Kaypohji]

Who is in power next time let’s see... another topic I guess.

What the government can do to gain confidence from the public is up to them to figure it out.

Maybe like what u said, educate the public provide figures behind their numbers? So even non financial savvy ones can get a rough idea of it and be convinced?

Or they can simply stop delaying the payout age for a start. I do hope they stop at 65/70 like forever. No matter what the calculations r... I don’t think starting a monthly withdrawal saving plans at 70s/80s is a good idea. At least for me... or make it optional for ppl to choose.

Hoping for the best. I guess this is the trade off for having a 4% risk free return. U have no say. I am not sure if it is worth it..I will only know when 25 years later

PAP maybe elected bow but how sure are you they will still be in power in the next election?

The public doesn’t need to fully understand, but a lot of times the public just kp about something they they don’t understand about like what’s happening now. How do you think they can show?

 

[havetheveryfun]

Oh btw cpf life is supposed to help those non financial savvy singaporeans even more since they r more likely to have no other investments and needed to depend on cpf as their sole income

But ironically unless one has high income or know how to plan their cpf money (which this group of ppl is not), they r usually the group that is most likely unable to attain frs or ers....

Sure, many might be unable to hit FRS or ERS. But there is no need to hit it if you really can't, does the government force you to hit it if you can't? No, it's just a recommendation based on their projections and if you can't hit it, you just get lesser payouts.

Plus, now there is the BRS, which is only half of the FRS and easily obtainable by most now. If you have a house you only need to set aside $90,500 in 2020. If a person is unable to set aside $90,500 by age 55, do you really think it is a good idea to allow him to withdraw everything?

 

[reddevil0728]

Who is in power next time let’s see... another topic I guess.

What the government can do to gain confidence from the public is up to them to figure it out.

Maybe like what u said, educate the public provide figures behind their numbers? So even non financial savvy ones can get a rough idea of it and be convinced?

Or they can simply stop delaying the payout age for a start. I do hope they stop at 65/70 like forever. No matter what the calculations r... I don’t think starting a monthly withdrawal saving plans at 70s/80s is a good idea. At least for me... or make it optional for ppl to choose.

Hoping for the best. I guess this is the trade off for having a 4% risk free return. U have no say. I am not sure if it is worth it..I will only know when 25 years later

huh? Gain confidence for a policy that can be changed in the future? Do you Even know what you asking for?

Somehow you seem to be suggesting a lot of conspiracies.

 

[Okenba]

Precisely... 10% based on what?

Just feel they do things with no basis... and no options for ppl... I get why some ppl get don’t like cpf.

I am a supporter of cpf...

but I don’t really agree with cpf life. I agree with the concept. It’s great. But some details like the incremental rate/retirement sum amount, payout age, payout amount and force everyone to have a monthly withdrawal savings plan aka cpf life...

Let’s see the next few years how...

Anyway just a rant. Cause for me I might be able to reach 660k (but doesn’t mean I will opt for ers, but then again, 25 years later, will I still have a choice?) or 2/3 of it for sure if I do a proper planning. But I feel it is not a realistic figure... just wondering if anyone can shed some light and share more knowledge on this to clear my doubts

And feeling a bit unrealistic if I have like half a million of money that I can’t touch? Hope the increment rate will decrease as the scheme gets more mature and the amount I forecasted is the ‘worse’ case scenario

Increasing retirement sum: This is because of inflation. Makes perfect sense. If the retirement sum stays constant, soon, it actually slowly loses value. 100k today will not buy the same things as 100k in 10yrs time.

Payout Age: This is because of longer lifespans, and people (generally) being in better health as they age, and therefore able to work longer. Longer lifespans again means that either the retirement sum increases even more, or the payout age increases. Take your pick. If we argue that some people may not be as healthy as others, I believe there are circumstances where CPF can be withdrawn earlier for health reasons.

Payout Amount: Seriously? There is no other annuity anywhere in SG (and likely worldwide) that would give you the same payout amount. Feel free to contact your insurance / financial agent and ask.

Increasing ERS: You are not obligated to hit ERS. You can just put in however much you think you can afford. You do not lose out from not hitting ERS. In fact, the payout (in %) at ERS is lower than the payout for FRS. Still better than any other annuity out there though.

The question to ask is: If one is so upset about CPF Life (Retirement sum, payout age, payout amount), then why would you even be trying to put more into the scheme? I would think someone unhappy with it would be trying to put in as little as possible...

Just to ask: Under what circumstances would you have half-million that you can't touch? If you do, likely you are a VERY high wage earner from a very young age, and you shouldn't even need to touch it. If you are high wage, but somehow spend money like water and need your CPF, then you might end up spending that like water too...

 

[OnePunchMan]

You already are (for housing in particular), and many people do. That's called the CPF Ordinary Account. You aren't even required to pay yourself back unless you sell your home, and even then you're not required to make up any shortfall.

I believe some sort of scheme could be nice as it basically squeeze the money lender’s interest rate. If its backed by your own cpf cash, I will think its consider low risk at least for the short term for cpf board.

Setting some things like maximum value and # of month and only lending those who was recently jobless will be nice.

Alternatively, turn on the printers and do unemployment benefits or mass hiring to fight dengue, social service could be another less impactful option.

 

[polyglob]

But u must understand that what you don’t understand doesn’t mean the policy is bad. It’s just that you don’t understand hence you feel it’s bad.

This is very good point.

If don't understand, just feel ignorant, don't feel judgmental like this is good or that is bad.

 

[polyglob]

The general public don’t need to understand in details cause not all singaporeans are well versed in finance for example.

I think government can improve our confidence in them by showing us they don’t suka suka keep making cpf money harder to withdraw every few years. And give us some option I hope.

Bro the general public can gain confidence in a gahmen scheme
exactly by studying the details and understanding the pros and cons of the scheme when applied to each individual's situation.

 

[curious_moo]

anyone here knows why we are increasing FRS at 5% for last few years, when the inflation is below 1% for the last few years?

how is the rate decided on this annual increase in FRS?

 

[reddevil0728]

anyone here knows why we are increasing FRS at 5% for last few years, when the inflation is below 1% for the last few years?

how is the rate decided on this annual increase in FRS?

Should go by brs, cause frs is double.

 

[curious_moo]

Should go by brs, cause frs is double.

i think FRS is the anchor here. BRS is half when u hedge your property.
in anyways, he rate of increase is the same across BRS, FRS and ERS since all are on the same ratio.

 

[Okenba]

https://www.cpf.gov.sg/members/FAQ/...ent Sum Scheme&folderid=18088&ajfaqid=7391145

Q) How is the Retirement Sum set?
A) The Basic Retirement Sum (BRS) is meant to provide CPF members with monthly payouts in retirement that cover their basic living expenses. The BRS is set such that monthly payouts take reference from the lower-middle retiree household expenditure per person, according to the latest Household Expenditure Survey (HES)1. It assumes that the member owns a property that can last him up to age 95 and he does not need to pay rent in retirement.

Members who do not own a property may need to pay rent and will need to set aside more to receive higher payouts in retirement. The Full Retirement Sum (FRS), which is twice the BRS, is meant to cater for such expenses. Members who wish to receive even higher payouts in retirement can choose to set aside up to the Enhanced Retirement Sum (ERS), which is three times the BRS.

To ensure that the payouts for future cohorts remain relevant, the BRS needs to be adjusted yearly for successive cohorts of retirees to account for inflation and some improvements in standard of living.

 

[Okenba]

anyone here knows why we are increasing FRS at 5% for last few years, when the inflation is below 1% for the last few years?

how is the rate decided on this annual increase in FRS?

2016 $161,000
2017 $166,000 3.11%
2018 $171,000 3.01%
2019 $176,000 2.92%
2020 $181,000 2.84%
2021 $186,000 2.76%
2022 $192,000 3.23%

Not quite 5%.

 

[curious_moo]

https://www.cpf.gov.sg/members/FAQ/...ent Sum Scheme&folderid=18088&ajfaqid=7391145

Yes, i have read the FAQ. There is no indication in the HES 2017/2018 that justifies the annual 3% increase in BRS/FRS/ERS. The expenditure increase highlighted in the surveys in comparison to 5 years ago is only around 2-3% (and this is across 5 years).

Can someone explain to me why we need 3% increase annually on the BRS/FRS/ERS for the past few years?

 

[curious_moo]

2016 $161,000
2017 $166,000 3.11%
2018 $171,000 3.01%
2019 $176,000 2.92%
2020 $181,000 2.84%
2021 $186,000 2.76%
2022 $192,000 3.23%

Not quite 5%.

haha srry, i was sticked to the 5k nominal $ increase, mistaken it for %.. but yah it was ~3%/annum.

 

[dork32]

Should go by brs, cause frs is double.

maths question. if frs go up by 5%, brs go up by how many %?

fail maths

 

[dork32]

anyone here knows why we are increasing FRS at 5% for last few years, when the inflation is below 1% for the last few years?

how is the rate decided on this annual increase in FRS?

5/176 = 2.84%. where you get 5% from?