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Old 03-06-2018, 11:03 AM   #1
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Disability Income Insurance

Hi everyone, i am age 33 and working as an accountant. I am pondering which DII to get. At the glance of it, all look quite similar. For those who bought GE payassure or Aviva Idealincome, can share about the terms and condition?

i was quoted for AIA premier disability cover for $888/year for the sum assured of S$3,000. Wonder is it on the expensive side?
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Old 03-06-2018, 11:15 AM   #2
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Hi everyone, i am age 33 and working as an accountant. I am pondering which DII to get. At the glance of it, all look quite similar. For those who bought GE payassure or Aviva Idealincome, can share about the terms and condition?

i was quoted for AIA premier disability cover for $888/year for the sum assured of S$3,000. Wonder is it on the expensive side?
For your profile, Male, ANB 33 and smoker,

Aviva side I can quote you for $472.50/year. Currently there is a 35% discount for $3,000/month benefit and above, hence the big price difference. Aviva's DII has feature in increase your monthly benefit by 3% per annum to keep up with inflation.
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Old 03-06-2018, 11:32 AM   #3
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For your profile, Male, ANB 33 and smoker,

Aviva side I can quote you for $472.50/year. Currently there is a 35% discount for $3,000/month benefit and above, hence the big price difference. Aviva's DII has feature in increase your monthly benefit by 3% per annum to keep up with inflation.
the discount only valid for first year? how much is subsequent year
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Old 03-06-2018, 11:36 AM   #4
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the discount only valid for first year? how much is subsequent year
It's a perpetual discount, forgot to state.
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Old 03-06-2018, 11:48 AM   #5
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It's a perpetual discount, forgot to state.
is it up till 65 years old, 60 days pre benefit claim and with 3% escalation? do you have the policy doc so i can read and compare on my end? can email to biogentic@gmail.com
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Old 03-06-2018, 12:24 PM   #6
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Hi everyone, i am age 33 and working as an accountant. I am pondering which DII to get. At the glance of it, all look quite similar. For those who bought GE payassure or Aviva Idealincome, can share about the terms and condition?

i was quoted for AIA premier disability cover for $888/year for the sum assured of S$3,000. Wonder is it on the expensive side?
I would wait for careshield life to finalise.
And wait for private insurers to review their supplement designs, taking into account careshield life features.
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Old 03-06-2018, 12:35 PM   #7
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I would wait for careshield life to finalise.
I wouldn't wait.

CareShield Life is already known to be substantially similar to ElderShield. In particular, it'll be a 3 out of 6 ADLs definition of disability, which is a very narrow definition. Moreover, if you wait, you aren't going to be covered at all, and that's bad. In the absolute "worst" case, if CareShield Life (with an extra cost supplement, no doubt) overlaps DII coverage "too much," then you can cancel your DII and switch to whatever the new offer is, or you can reduce your DII coverage. And that's not a problem, especially since you're going to be less than 2 years into DII. DII isn't purchased with a lump sum premium. (Maybe it should be!)

In all likelihood you're going to want DII plus at least base CareShield Life, which will be compulsory for many anyway. DII will be analogous to an Integrated Shield upgrade from MediShield Life. This government is not known for making compulsory insurance any more than barebones and barely adequate, if that. ElderShield wasn't even barely adequate, so that's why CareShield Life is coming. But it won't be any more than barely adequate -- no need to worry about that.

Last edited by BBCWatcher; 03-06-2018 at 12:41 PM..
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Old 03-06-2018, 12:40 PM   #8
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Brought GE payassure previously. Slightly more expensive but remembered that the definition is more defined unlike that of Aviva idealincome or AIA premier disability cover. Sometimes it is not just looking at which is cheaper but which is easier to claim if things really happen.
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Old 03-06-2018, 05:58 PM   #9
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I would like a quote for male, 29, non-smoker, programmer, insured for $2600.
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Old 03-06-2018, 08:07 PM   #10
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I would like a quote for male, 29, non-smoker, programmer, insured for $2600.
$423.80/yr based on $2.6k monthly benefit till age 65
Pre-benefit period of 90 days

There's a even lower one at $403/yr with pre-benefit period of 180 days.

Above is from GE.
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Old 04-06-2018, 07:22 PM   #11
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I have done a thorough analysis.. it seems like Aviva Idealincome is really cheap after the 35% off.
Only con is 3 months pre benefit period vs AIA 2 months, no pay back period, no lump sum payment for catastrophic disability benefit (24x for AIA), 3x insured for rehabilitation vs 6x for AIA, death benefit 5k vs 12x for AIA, after 24 months your remuneration must be 75% below pre disability before u r entitled to any pay out.
If the difference is 398 per year in premium comparing AIA vs Aviva ideal income.. worth to opt for the cheaper option? I am quite worry on the Aviva terms that any disability must be approved by the company registered doctor. AIA doesn’t has such condition

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Old 04-06-2018, 07:34 PM   #12
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$423.80/yr based on $2.6k monthly benefit till age 65
Pre-benefit period of 90 days

There's a even lower one at $403/yr with pre-benefit period of 180 days.

Above is from GE.
Hi can give me the quote for GE? 33 years old, accountant, term till 65yrs old, 60days pre benefit. If u happen to have the term can send to biogentic@gmail.com
Thanks m
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Old 04-06-2018, 07:41 PM   #13
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Only con is 3 months pre benefit period vs AIA 2 months....
This part is not a con unless you're comparing equally or closely priced insurance. You don't actually need a 2 month pre-benefit period since you should, by all reasonable prudence, have an emergency reserve fund that bridges you. How on earth would you possibly cope with "ordinary" (non-disability, non-insured) bouts of unemployment without an emergency reserve fund?

Frankly, 6 months is even better, assuming you get a reasonable premium discount for the even longer waiting period. The trick with insurance is to pay just enough for high quality insurance that handles the calamities you could not reasonably handle on your own. If you're trying to insure against non-calamities (e.g. 3 months of unemployment versus 2), and if it costs you non-trivially more to do that, you're overpaying for insurance you don't actually need.

Insurance company marketing departments understand how your brain works better than you do, but you need to keep a cool head about this and focus like a laser on what really matters: insurance to protect against true calamities you cannot handle, and to protect well.

If the difference is 398 per year in premium comparing AIA vs Aviva ideal income.. worth to opt for the cheaper option?
Maybe. How much higher of a monthly benefit amount could you get if you take that $398/year and buy a higher coverage level (higher monthly payout amount) with Aviva? Then you can look at the comparison on an equal premium basis (as equal as you can make it), which is probably an easier comparison for you to process mentally.

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Old 04-06-2018, 09:19 PM   #14
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This part is not a con unless you're comparing equally or closely priced insurance. You don't actually need a 2 month pre-benefit period since you should, by all reasonable prudence, have an emergency reserve fund that bridges you. How on earth would you possibly cope with "ordinary" (non-disability, non-insured) bouts of unemployment without an emergency reserve fund?

Frankly, 6 months is even better, assuming you get a reasonable premium discount for the even longer waiting period. The trick with insurance is to pay just enough for high quality insurance that handles the calamities you could not reasonably handle on your own. If you're trying to insure against non-calamities (e.g. 3 months of unemployment versus 2), and if it costs you non-trivially more to do that, you're overpaying for insurance you don't actually need.

Insurance company marketing departments understand how your brain works better than you do, but you need to keep a cool head about this and focus like a laser on what really matters: insurance to protect against true calamities you cannot handle, and to protect well.


Maybe. How much higher of a monthly benefit amount could you get if you take that $398/year and buy a higher coverage level (higher monthly payout amount) with Aviva? Then you can look at the comparison on an equal premium basis (as equal as you can make it), which is probably an easier comparison for you to process mentally.
Hi bbcwatcher, thanks for your breakdown analysis and I do feel Aviva Idealincome is a more reasonable premium judging against the risk of not having it. I have a question on Aviva requiring the company appointed medical doctor to verify the disability portion. Does this severely disadvantage the insured as in Aviva might play a part in influencing the doctor judgement? I also cannot seek treatment in my preferred hospital?
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Old 04-06-2018, 10:22 PM   #15
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I have a question on Aviva requiring the company appointed medical doctor to verify the disability portion. Does this severely disadvantage the insured as in Aviva might play a part in influencing the doctor judgement?
If it's Aviva appointing the doctor, I'd probably be concerned about that. If it's the employer appointing the medical doctor, that might be OK.

I'd have to see the exact language in the policy documents, really. Maybe Aviva is less ambiguous about who judges disability, and that might be a good thing. Or maybe Aviva is more narrow, which might not be a good thing.

By the way, DIYinsurance (I have no affiliation) rebates 50% of the sales commission on Aviva Ideal Income, so that'd be a nice bonus if you decide that policy is the right fit. The current 35% premium discount promotion (for signups through June 30, 2018) is also passed on.

I don't think DII premiums are guaranteed level, by the way.

Aviva has a lower S&P rating than either AIA or Great Eastern. Below PPF Scheme limits, that probably doesn't matter. However, I think disability income insurance is highly likely to be above PPF Scheme limits, so the insurer's creditworthiness matters.

It is possible to buy DII from two or more insurers, although that's a little more complicated of course, and you have to be careful of aggregate limits if I'm not mistaken. For example, let's suppose you're earning $7,000/month currently. Both Aviva and AIA let you insure up to 75% of that income, or up to $5,250/month. So hypothetically you could buy $3,000/month from Aviva (to get the 35% premium discount) and $2,000/month from AIA. That's $5,000/month of total coverage, and that's below the 75% limit that both insurers have. I don't think there's any problem with that arrangement, as long as you don't lie to either insurer if they ask. The complication is that you have two claims to file if you're disabled, and conceivably both insurance companies could require their own medical exams if they wish. But maybe splitting your loyalties makes sense, just to defend yourself better against unlikely but possible insurer bankruptcy and/or future premium adjustments you don't like.

I also cannot seek treatment in my preferred hospital?
You can treat yourself in whatever hospital you want, with whatever you can afford. Disability income insurance doesn't concern itself with that detail, but DII obviously needs to determine whether you're disabled (as the policy defines it) or not -- there's some process defined in the policy to determine that. Usually these policies require you to submit to some reasonable medical examination(s) before the insurer will pay benefits, or for the insurer to maintain benefit payments. And you don't always or even very often get to pick that particular medical examiner, but I would be concerned if the examiner is set up in such a way as to be possibly less than neutral and impartial.
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