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-   -   Syfe REIT+ (https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/money-mind-210/syfe-reit-6196988.html)

assiak71 01-02-2020 11:13 PM

Syfe REIT+
 
Think this deserves its own thread.

https://www.syfe.com/reit-plus

Is this better than existing reit etfs?

Holdings
https://www.syfe.com/reit-plus-portfolio

bluegt 01-02-2020 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by assiak71 (Post 124907610)
Think this deserves its own thread.

https://www.syfe.com/reit-plus

Is this better than existing reit etfs?

Holdings
https://www.syfe.com/reit-plus-portfolio

Looks like a good way to get REIT diversification if you are investing smaller sums.

I saw that in order to get 0.4% fees the minimum is 100K, so effectively $400 a year. Maybe that makes sense for a global equity portfolio but there is no way I am paying that for such a passive/bond-like REIT product.

assiak71 02-02-2020 01:30 AM

I guess this can complement syfe's global portfolio. What ratio would be good? Global:reits = 2:1?

Han Shot First 02-02-2020 02:06 AM

Could this be considered as a kind-of unit trust comprising 15 S-REIT stocks and a bond ETF where Syfe is the (active) fund manager?

If so, its annual management fee is much cheaper than the REIT unit trusts that are available.

If compare to REIT ETFs available on SGX, its TER of 0.65% + fee for the bond ETF is about 0.05% to 0.15% more expensive than the Nikko REIT ETF and the Lion REIT ETF respectively.

However, I would think a pure REIT (equity) portfolio without any bonds (in a bond ETF) ought to perform better in the long-term, but probably with more volatility.

assiak71 02-02-2020 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Han Shot First (Post 124910000)
If compare to REIT ETFs available on SGX, its TER of 0.65% + fee for the bond ETF is about 0.05% to 0.15% more expensive than the Nikko REIT ETF and the Lion REIT ETF respectively.

I would use syfe's 0.4% as S$100k is not too high to hit

Those etfs' ter are 0.6% and 0.58% btw.

So syfe is actually the lowest now based on 0.4%, about 0.1% more than sti etf

bluegt 02-02-2020 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by assiak71 (Post 124911319)
I would use syfe's 0.4% as S$100k is not too high to hit

Those etfs' ter are 0.6% and 0.58% btw.

So syfe is actually the lowest now based on 0.4%, about 0.1% more than sti etf


In terms of benchmark, I wouldn't compare against STI ETF.

First, Singapore is a very inefficient market with high fees. Secondly, anybody with a reasonable sum of money should be diversifying geographically and as such, investing outside of SGX. All of a sudden, the benchmark becomes global ETFs that charge 0.1-0.5% and not the STI ETF.

I don't see the value-add that Syfe is providing. In fact, given how correlated REITs are with bonds, I would be annoyed any time they shift towards bonds. The risk profile stays similar while the returns drop. I hope they publish some backtesting results with and without "ARI" (that go further back than 2017...).

The value in this is perhaps the re-balancing and the reduction in transaction costs which is worth maybe 0.2% annually - not 0.4-0.6%.

-- If you want a really hands-off approach, 0.4% is ok, but I would really want proof that this ARI thing is going to help rather than hurt.

assiak71 02-02-2020 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluegt (Post 124911855)
-- If you want a really hands-off approach, 0.4% is ok, but I would really want proof that this ARI thing is going to help rather than hurt.

As you said, 0.4% is still ok. Thats the main point.

I would like to add that having 1 consolidated managed acc is also good for beneficiaries especially if they are not financially well versed. If your beneficiaries are financially literate, you are lucky. Imagine they are not, whats going to happen when you pass away? They will have to deal with ibkr, fsmone etc or even worse individual stocks/reits. What if theres a rights issue after you pass away?

For me there is this ease/convenience which such robos/managed accs bring. At <=0.4% i think it is still ok though i hope syfe can introduce 1 more tier for maybe 500k or 1mil

2474265 02-02-2020 11:17 AM

I did a quick comparison of Syfe vs Lion S-REIT ETF

Lion S-REIT ETF
0.50% Management Fee
0.25% Brokerage Fee*
0.04% Clearing and access fee
0.15% Custody / Trustee fee
0.10% Rebalancing fee
???? other charges (prospectus shows a lot of other things but aren't really clear)
--------------------------
1.04%+++

https://www.poems.com.sg/wp-content/...-_PHS_1017.pdf
Maybe someone understands all the other fees on top of page 4 and can explain.

Syfe
0.4-0.65%
0.03% for bond share (Nikko AM ABF 0.15% x 20% share)
--------------------------
0.43-0.68%

Syfe is significantly lower cost and at least it's easy to understand and transparent.

Buying DIY a range of products is even more expensive because of brokerage fees to buy all the REITs 1 by 1 and then rebalancing...

FinalDestiny... 02-02-2020 11:41 AM

Kristal.AI has a “Asia REITs SGD” offering which requires a minimum of $13k.

Not sure how it compares to Syfe’s offering or directly buying REITs from SGX.

Brown24 02-02-2020 12:34 PM

How they select the REITS counter into this REIT+?

Captain89 02-02-2020 01:05 PM

For syfe reits portfolio, how many % comprises of bonds?

Brown24 02-02-2020 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain89 (Post 124915184)
For syfe reits portfolio, how many % comprises of bonds?

24.5% bond

hkchew03 02-02-2020 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain89 (Post 124915184)
For syfe reits portfolio, how many % comprises of bonds?

24.5% bonds

Posted from PCWX using Redmi K20 Pro

Okenba 02-02-2020 02:13 PM

I had hoped that REIT+ would follow the rest of their offerings and have different weightings for different risk levels. I would not mind something with a lower percentage of bonds.

Really, with CPF, I think most Singaporeans have more than enough bonds...

assiak71 02-02-2020 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain89 (Post 124915184)
For syfe reits portfolio, how many % comprises of bonds?

It is dynamic


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