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History of SAF - Manpower / Admin Vocationalist

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Old 08-07-2018, 05:02 PM   #1
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Post History of SAF - Manpower / Admin Vocationalist


*"Clerk" Vocation Badge*

As combat-fit "clerk" or Administration Support Assistant for 1-Year, 10-months, I think it is good that I point out some stuff for the future Manpower-vocationalist. Also, for anyone that is interested in knowing more in-depth about our vocation.

Info about me:
I worked with a few "clerk"-vocation Commissioned Officers (they are ladies in their 40s now); "clerk"-vocation Warrant Officers (they are ladies in their 40s to 50s now) and also "clerk"-vocation Sergeants (NSFs).


Basically, Admin-trained soldiers (PES fit OR not, in my case, I went through Enhanced BMT) it goes like this:
From Recruit to Corporal First Class, appointment will usually be Administration Support Assistant OR some of them Personal Assistant.
BMT > Vocation training (Admin course) > Deploy to Unit.

If you are chosen to go command school AFTER BMT (PES fit OR not), the only school is SCS. As intake for OCS for Clerk vocation ended in 1996:
From Private to Senior Warrant Officer (Yes, there are Clerks holding SWO ranks in the past), appointment depends but it will start off as Administration Supervisor after passing-out from SCS course.
BMT > Foundation Term (Admin course) at PLC with all other vocation / Human Resource Institute (SCS) with other Admin-Cadets > Attached to Unit > back to PLC for final term then POP with other vocations at PLC > Back to Unit.


History:
In the past, the women who joined the army are given choice to sign on as a Non-Commissioned Soldier OR Commissioned Officers. Before the combat vocations were opened to the ladies in the 80s, the only vocation offered was only Manpower / Personnel vocation, which is known as the "Clerk" vocation. There are even Commissioned Officers for "Clerk"-vocationalist. Most well known is, COL Lee Yem Choo, the first female formation commander of Personnel Command (Google her name). She is a Manpower/PERS Vocation Officer.
Sadly, the last intake for Officers for the clerk-vocation ended in 1996. They are mostly taken over by DXOs now.

How to identify Officers OR NCOs that are "Clerk"-trained? It's easy. Refer to their Collar Vocation Badge. The badge on their collar with a sword in the middle and a feather and torch crossing it is the MANPOWER vocation. It shows they are initially trained and went through the Admin/Clerk course (Assistant or Specialist or Officers)

So what are these officers called?
They are called PERS-Officers. Or simply, Personnel Officers. Usually it is okay to call them Manpower Officers. Nowadays they are usually taken over by other DXOs or other vocation-trained officers. What I am referring here are the specifically trained ones. So, I usually call them Pers-Officers (confirmed with the officer herself).


What about the formation?
in the year 2011, they officially created the formation for all these administrative matters / staff. Which many call it the "Clerk Formation". It is called the PERSCOM, Personnel Command.



Anyone having any questions about the Manpower / Admin vocation, do post it here and I will try to answer with the best of my knowledge I gained from all the Clerk-trained WOs and Commissioned Officers.

Last edited by DollyAiko; 08-07-2018 at 05:04 PM.. Reason: Bolding the Titles of each section
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Old 09-07-2018, 12:49 PM   #2
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*"Clerk" Vocation Badge*

As combat-fit "clerk" or Administration Support Assistant for 1-Year, 10-months, I think it is good that I point out some stuff for the future Manpower-vocationalist. Also, for anyone that is interested in knowing more in-depth about our vocation.

Info about me:
I worked with a few "clerk"-vocation Commissioned Officers (they are ladies in their 40s now); "clerk"-vocation Warrant Officers (they are ladies in their 40s to 50s now) and also "clerk"-vocation Sergeants (NSFs).

Are these women DXO? Do you know that Officers, WOSpec will have staff tour meaning they may end up as Manpower Officer, Chief Clerk (WOSpec) or whatever title they were given at one point of their career but these are not their main vocation for their career?


Basically, Admin-trained soldiers (PES fit OR not, in my case, I went through Enhanced BMT) it goes like this:
From Recruit to Corporal First Class, appointment will usually be Administration Support Assistant OR some of them Personal Assistant.
BMT > Vocation training (Admin course) > Deploy to Unit.

If you are chosen to go command school AFTER BMT (PES fit OR not), the only school is SCS. As intake for OCS for Clerk vocation ended in 1996:
From Private to Senior Warrant Officer (Yes, there are Clerks holding SWO ranks in the past), appointment depends but it will start off as Administration Supervisor after passing-out from SCS course.
BMT > Foundation Term (Admin course) at PLC with all other vocation / Human Resource Institute (SCS) with other Admin-Cadets > Attached to Unit > back to PLC for final term then POP with other vocations at PLC > Back to Unit.
You have given some wrong information. In SCS, Foundation Term (formerly known as Basic Section Leader Course, or BSLC) is only for combat fit PES because they are taught basic infantry skills to command an infantry section.

Similar to clerk, they may post to an unit as a 'Assistant Chief Clerk' (mostly CO PA) to prepare them to become Chief Clerk in their NS (NSman) unit before or after the course. If I am not wrong, they attended only SAF Basic Manpower Course together with Commission Officer (last time is commission officer and NCO take different course and it is known as Admin Supervisor Course). For Commission Officer, they are commission in other formation such as Infantry before they top up this course to become Manpower Officer in 2SG Army (Not sure about 1G Army).

They clock their months of experience to be promoted to various ranks like PTE, LCP, CPL and 3SG. Mostly at the time frame of LCP/CPL, they will post to SCS for an 8-day Combined Arms Term, culminating in a combined arms Graduation Parade held in Pasir Laba Camp. However while other combat vocation pass out as 3SG, Admin Specialist like other 'support vocations' like, maintenance, supply and transport specialist will remain in their current rank and wait for their time up in unit to be promoted to 3SG.


History:
In the past, the women who joined the army are given choice to sign on as a Non-Commissioned Soldier OR Commissioned Officers. Before the combat vocations were opened to the ladies in the 80s, the only vocation offered was only Manpower / Personnel vocation, which is known as the "Clerk" vocation. There are even Commissioned Officers for "Clerk"-vocationalist. Most well known is, COL Lee Yem Choo, the first female formation commander of Personnel Command (Google her name). She is a Manpower/PERS Vocation Officer.
Sadly, the last intake for Officers for the clerk-vocation ended in 1996. They are mostly taken over by DXOs now.

How to identify Officers OR NCOs that are "Clerk"-trained? It's easy. Refer to their Collar Vocation Badge. The badge on their collar with a sword in the middle and a feather and torch crossing it is the MANPOWER vocation. It shows they are initially trained and went through the Admin/Clerk course (Assistant or Specialist or Officers)

So what are these officers called?
They are called PERS-Officers. Or simply, Personnel Officers. Usually it is okay to call them Manpower Officers. Nowadays they are usually taken over by other DXOs or other vocation-trained officers. What I am referring here are the specifically trained ones. So, I usually call them Pers-Officers (confirmed with the officer herself).


What about the formation?
in the year 2011, they officially created the formation for all these administrative matters / staff. Which many call it the "Clerk Formation". It is called the PERSCOM, Personnel Command.


Anyone having any questions about the Manpower / Admin vocation, do post it here and I will try to answer with the best of my knowledge I gained from all the Clerk-trained WOs and Commissioned Officers.
There are also any type of non-uniform group in the past. If I can find it at home, I will update here the name of the other type of non-uniform group.
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Old 09-07-2018, 01:23 PM   #3
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Are these women DXO? Do you know that Officers, WOSpec will have staff tour meaning they may end up as Manpower Officer, Chief Clerk (WOSpec) or whatever title they were given at one point of their career but these are not their main vocation for their career?
Nope. Uniformed personnel. Some of them even have JCC or BAC badges. And yes, I do know about staff tour which is quite common in SAF. What I am referring to are Officers/WOs that holds particularly the PERS vocation, specifically from the start of enlistment.




You have given some wrong information. In SCS, Foundation Term (formerly known as Basic Section Leader Course, or BSLC) is only for combat fit PES because they are taught basic infantry skills to command an infantry section.

Similar to clerk, they may post to an unit as a 'Assistant Chief Clerk' (mostly CO PA) to prepare them to become Chief Clerk in their NS (NSman) unit before or after the course. If I am not wrong, they attended only SAF Basic Manpower Course together with Commission Officer (last time is commission officer and NCO take different course and it is known as Admin Supervisor Course). For Commission Officer, they are commission in other formation such as Infantry before they top up this course to become Manpower Officer in 2SG Army (Not sure about 1G Army).
Yes. What I meant was the 3SG holding the PERS vocation badge, specifically.


They clock their months of experience to be promoted to various ranks like PTE, LCP, CPL and 3SG. Mostly at the time frame of LCP/CPL, they will post to SCS for an 8-day Combined Arms Term, culminating in a combined arms Graduation Parade held in Pasir Laba Camp. However while other combat vocation pass out as 3SG, Admin Specialist like other 'support vocations' like, maintenance, supply and transport specialist will remain in their current rank and wait for their time up in unit to be promoted to 3SG.
Nope. U are COMPLETELY wrong for the last part. Admin / Log Specs pass out straight as 3SG. You can also refer to the SCS Facebook page and look at the graduates. I am from a support unit and we have batches and batches of 3SG log / admin coming in. Don't worry, I am right on this. haha.



There are also any type of non-uniform group in the past. If I can find it at home, I will update here the name of the other type of non-uniform group.
Yes. There are non-uniformed groups. But what I am trying to say here is, like other vocations, the "clerk" vocation used to have it's own share of commissioned officers under this specific, particular vocation. Just sharing the history of it. I am not going into the non-uniformed ones (DXOs now).
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Old 09-07-2018, 01:29 PM   #4
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They clock their months of experience to be promoted to various ranks like PTE, LCP, CPL and 3SG. Mostly at the time frame of LCP/CPL, they will post to SCS for an 8-day Combined Arms Term, culminating in a combined arms Graduation Parade held in Pasir Laba Camp. However while other combat vocation pass out as 3SG, Admin Specialist like other 'support vocations' like, maintenance, supply and transport specialist will remain in their current rank and wait for their time up in unit to be promoted to 3SG.


*Image from SCS public FB page*

https://www.facebook.com/SCS.SAFTI/p...type=3&theater


This is the Admin/Clerk Specs (look at their vocation tab, the one with the feather, bayonet and torch). I am 101% certain the flow is like this:

BMT (PES fit or not) > HRI > PLC > Unit (where they will uprank to LCP / CPL before heading back to HRI and PLC) > HRI > PLC > Back to Unit as a full fledge 3SG.


The Clerk-Specs and myself, have to do IPPT / Shoot like any other combat fit soldiers too. Just that we are specifically chosen to go into the admin vocation and hold only the admin appointments.

This applies to before 1996 when they have openings for Admin-vocation Commissioned Officers. Which is now largely replaced by DXOs and other vocation soldiers (Staff tour).

Last edited by DollyAiko; 09-07-2018 at 01:30 PM.. Reason: Forgot to add the link. lol
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Old 09-07-2018, 01:34 PM   #5
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This is the example of a Clerk-Officer that still can be found (but extremely rare) around SAF. Just look at their collar badge and you can tell they are PERS-Officers. Trained from the very start to do ONLY admin work.

They are referred to as PERS-Officers.


*the one on the left*







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Old 09-07-2018, 01:40 PM   #6
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For Warrant Officers, one of the more "popular" ones will be:

2WO Saloma , a Training Admin Supervisor from SAF Personnel Hub (West).



*on the right, obviously. haha*

She is a good example of female soldiers that joined as a clerk (recruit) and slowly rosed up to Warrant Officer. She is trained particularly in admin only too. Which still exist now, which is the NSF Admin Specs.


https://www.facebook.com/mindefsg/vi...te%20Johari%20
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Old 09-07-2018, 01:46 PM   #7
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I think the highest ranking Clerk-WOs I had ever known will be, SWO (RET) Mary.




Her story about her life from being a Admin-Spec (3SG) until her retirement can be read here:
https://www.mindef.gov.sg/oms/iminde...l#.W0L2Jdgzau4



Quote:
In October 1970, Senior Warrant Officer (SWO) (Ret) Lim joined the SAF as a clerk. "The pay was $90 a month. It was not much but enough."

Her office was at Dempsey Road where she rose to become Chief Clerical Supervisor at the Career Plans Centre, holding the rank of 3rd Sergeant.

She was then posted to an operational unit - 3 SIR - in 1984. "I saw how a unit functioned, taking in recruits and training them to become soldiers and forming the Battalion.

"It was eye-opening because I saw how my manpower role helped these soldiers to concentrate on their jobs."

Her last posting to the 9th Army Maintenance Base as the unit's Manpower Officer gave her perspective of another side of the SAF.

"The unit maintains SAF vehicles for the combatants. Usually after major exercises, the fighting units sent their vehicles to us for maintenance.

"The job was very intense and the vehicle turnaround was very fast; the technicians would often work late into night to get the vehicles ready."

Looking at her 37 years in the SAF, SWO (Ret) Lim said: "I started as a junior clerk, sotong sotong (blur blur), and wrapped up my career as a manpower officer. It was very satisfying."

Last edited by DollyAiko; 09-07-2018 at 01:49 PM.. Reason: added the story here.
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Old 09-07-2018, 01:48 PM   #8
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As for PERS-Officer, COL Lee Yem Choo (extremely smart lady), she was the first ever female formation commander in SAF. Commander, PERSCOM.

Few days ago she just held a Change of Command after being a formation commander for 2years. She retired few days ago too.


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Old 09-07-2018, 01:51 PM   #9
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To read more about the PERSCOM formation, it can be found here:

https://www.mindef.gov.sg/web/portal...ces/formations

Last edited by DollyAiko; 09-07-2018 at 01:51 PM.. Reason: Spelling error.
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Old 09-07-2018, 07:45 PM   #10
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Nope. U are COMPLETELY wrong for the last part. Admin / Log Specs pass out straight as 3SG. You can also refer to the SCS Facebook page and look at the graduates. I am from a support unit and we have batches and batches of 3SG log / admin coming in. Don't worry, I am right on this. haha.
He is usually quite outdated, cause hes quite an old soldier.
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Old 11-07-2018, 01:08 PM   #11
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Before DXO, it is known as Non-Uniformed SAF (NUSAF) Scheme.

There are also any type of non-uniform group in the past. If I can find it at home, I will update here the name of the other type of non-uniform group.
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Old 11-07-2018, 01:25 PM   #12
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wah come in support support rem my days as a clerk
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Old 11-07-2018, 01:44 PM   #13
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My brother enlisted during 3G Army era and serve as an Automotive Technician Specialist during his NSF. While I enlisted during 2G Army era, I do work with NSFs and NSmen (during 2G & 3G Army era) who are Admin, Supply and Transport Specialists in my unit or course as a NSman during 3G Army era too.

After passing out from Specialist Course from HRI or STC, they did not directly promoted to 3SG however their vocation have change to Specialist. The picture are taken in Combined Arms Term and 3SG rank are just for wayang for combined arms Graduation Parade held in Pasir Laba Camp.

Unless my memory fail me, their official rank and allowance may not be 3SG yet after Graduation Parade until they reach their time frame (mostly the next month for 3SG rank allowance). Have to check with my brother if I have the time to visit him at my parent house.


Nope. U are COMPLETELY wrong for the last part. Admin / Log Specs pass out straight as 3SG. You can also refer to the SCS Facebook page and look at the graduates. I am from a support unit and we have batches and batches of 3SG log / admin coming in. Don't worry, I am right on this. haha.


*Image from SCS public FB page*

https://www.facebook.com/SCS.SAFTI/p...type=3&theater


This is the Admin/Clerk Specs (look at their vocation tab, the one with the feather, bayonet and torch). I am 101% certain the flow is like this:

BMT (PES fit or not) > HRI > PLC > Unit (where they will uprank to LCP / CPL before heading back to HRI and PLC) > HRI > PLC > Back to Unit as a full fledge 3SG.

Vocation is 1 thing while PES and Unit Requirement are other things.

Medical Fit PES of course needs to go for IPPT. Range depend on unit requirement (for example, you will go for range if you are attending combat fit BMT). Non-combatant mostly do do a 100m run-down or walk-down while combatant in combat unit do a 300m run-down that ends with an Instinctive Action Drill Live Firing (where soldiers engage targets at close proximity of 50m or less).


The Clerk-Specs and myself, have to do IPPT / Shoot like any other combat fit soldiers too. Just that we are specifically chosen to go into the admin vocation and hold only the admin appointments
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Old 11-07-2018, 02:09 PM   #14
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Alright. Whatever it is, what I'm saying applies to the current generation and what had happened since 2016~2018 so far. But thanks for the Insight Kyoji!
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Old 11-07-2018, 02:11 PM   #15
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She is one of the retired PERS-Officer. MAJ (RET) Puran Kaur. One of the very prominent PERS-Officer in the past.

She was also an ADC to our previous President!
ADC = Aide-de-Camp.



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