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Old 17-05-2019, 06:19 PM   #3451
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For what it’s worth, I’ve held shares in three companies that went bankrupt, and the shares became (and are) worthless — a total wipeout.(*) In one of those cases the shares were a gift, and I received a few dividends, so I came out ahead. In the other two cases I received a few dividends but came out very much behind. In all three cases the positions were extremely small relative to total household wealth. I never should have bought the two companies’ shares because individual company investing is generally quite dumb.

You learn, and you move on, that’s all.

(*) As a U.S. person I got to take capital losses, which offset capital gains tax. There’s an annual limit to capital losses, but I was able to take the full losses for the non-gift shares since they were such small positions. I guess that’s something. Hyflux investors who are U.S. persons or who live in practically any country with a capital gains tax would very much appreciate a definitive resolution, notably liquidation, because they would then be able to take the capital losses. A “zombie” company is not helpful to them, because (ordinarily) the capital loss tax rule requires an actual, realized loss. The sooner reality is properly documented for the tax authorities, the better. Institutional shareholders often have greater tax-related flexibility to do partial write-offs for tax purposes, but individual investors ordinarily don’t. Maybe these investors can sell their bonds/notes on the secondary market in order to realize their losses, but shareholders cannot since trading has been halted. This is the worst of all possible worlds, really. They’re sitting on huge but unrealized losses, no way to close out their positions to realize the losses, and no prospect of ever getting any other result except a big loss. Does anybody have any sympathy for their plight?
You are wrong. Mindset of Singapore investors is different.

Hope can be a powerful trait. A lot of investors are pinning on hope with their investments. Cutting losses is not a good option.

As long as you don't sell your shares, there is still hope on recovery. The moment you sell, there is zero hope already.
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Old 18-05-2019, 08:58 AM   #3452
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Early morning telling people that Tuaspring is "owned" by retail investors... Electricity sales also now come under the purview of PUB and not EMA...
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Old 18-05-2019, 09:12 AM   #3453
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This sgdividends, last time i used to visit his blog and other investment blogs from others. Thought he is some accredited or seasoned investor. End up reading the way he replies in this forum and in the telegram chat, really changed my perception.

He now sounds like a noobie and a sore loser, fanning flames in the forum and also in the telegram chat for whatever ulterior motives only he himself know. In other words, he now looks like some small fry who thinks he is a big fark and satki in investing, writing so many blog articles to share and promote his own opinions, analyses and investment picks but end up in reality, he doesn't even know wtf he is doing and especially obvious in this hyflux and the previous noble incidents. Non-stop flipping prata and etc.

Who knows, maybe he didnt even invest in hyflux and noble, or better still, he never ever invested a single cent before. All his theory based articles without any practical experience in investments, but pretends to have invested a large sum of money into various securities and stocks.

Last edited by new-comer; 18-05-2019 at 09:16 AM..
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Old 18-05-2019, 10:09 AM   #3454
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This sgdividends, last time i used to visit his blog and other investment blogs from others. Thought he is some accredited or seasoned investor. End up reading the way he replies in this forum and in the telegram chat, really changed my perception.

He now sounds like a noobie and a sore loser, fanning flames in the forum and also in the telegram chat for whatever ulterior motives only he himself know. In other words, he now looks like some small fry who thinks he is a big fark and satki in investing, writing so many blog articles to share and promote his own opinions, analyses and investment picks but end up in reality, he doesn't even know wtf he is doing and especially obvious in this hyflux and the previous noble incidents. Non-stop flipping prata and etc.
I find his blog pretty good, he's quite thorough in his explanations and covers a wide range of topics. Maybe he invested a bit too much into Hyflux this time so the emotions are getting to him. Or maybe this sgdividends is a different guy
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Old 18-05-2019, 12:21 PM   #3455
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I find his blog pretty good, he's quite thorough in his explanations and covers a wide range of topics. Maybe he invested a bit too much into Hyflux this time so the emotions are getting to him. Or maybe this sgdividends is a different guy
Same person...He confirm it himself...

Wah I also star in avengers .

Exciting ...haha.

Already said moving on doesn't mean not doing anything. Moving on means not affected by it,not sad, not depressed, life is still good.

Get it.

To the one who posted and help me market my blog , your moving on means?
That's why it is very funny when he said he had "moved on"...
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Old 18-05-2019, 12:27 PM   #3456
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Same person...He confirm it himself...



That's why it is very funny when he said he had "moved on"...
NOT funny. Now he needs to keep it going on as it brings traffic to his blog. Without this Hyflux thing his blog is dead.
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Old 18-05-2019, 01:06 PM   #3457
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NOT funny. Now he needs to keep it going on as it brings traffic to his blog. Without this Hyflux thing his blog is dead.
I think most of the Hyflux investors had already moved on...You see the turnout for the Hong Lim Park protest and the number of those who signed their petition, it is just a small number of people who still had not moved on with their life...So I don't think the traffic to the blogspot may not increase as much...

There are 1,935 people in the telegram chat, how many people do you think are in their so called "legal private chatroom"...This is only how many people compared to the total 34,000 retail investors...
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Old 18-05-2019, 01:50 PM   #3458
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I hope all PnP investors are wiped out. Why should taxpayers foot the bill for investors who bet in the wrong company?? Did they pay taxes when they made money??
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Old 18-05-2019, 04:15 PM   #3459
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I find his blog pretty good, he's quite thorough in his explanations and covers a wide range of topics. Maybe he invested a bit too much into Hyflux this time so the emotions are getting to him. Or maybe this sgdividends is a different guy
I am writing off his blog after this incident.
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Old 18-05-2019, 07:05 PM   #3460
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Early morning telling people that Tuaspring is "owned" by retail investors... Electricity sales also now come under the purview of PUB and not EMA...
I suspect he has other agendas in stirring up people’s emotions... in EDMW words, not so simple one
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Old 18-05-2019, 07:34 PM   #3461
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I suspect he has other agendas in stirring up peopleís emotions... in EDMW words, not so simple one
Well, he is not even vested in Noble and still wanted to create a Telegram chat for the Noble Investors is already sign that he is up to something as this people had already moved on...He want to drag the Noble investors back for whatever agenda he is trying to seek...









The above on the opening post for the Telegram group chat he created for Noble investors...
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Old 18-05-2019, 07:50 PM   #3462
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I hope all PnP investors are wiped out. Why should taxpayers foot the bill for investors who bet in the wrong company?? Did they pay taxes when they made money??
Honestly I don't care if they get back zero or 100% plus all accumulated interest so long as taxpayers money are not used to bail them out or any Public agency or regulators are not made to pay a single cent for their recovery...

They are quite sneaky as they previously wanted a bailout from the government but it backfire...Now they wanted to put the blame on regulators so that this Agency will be liable to compensate them 100% plus all accumulated interest...

They think they can garner more support from the millions of Singaporean who did not invest in Hyflux by saying it is not a bailout by the government but their end goal have and would always be 100% recovery plus all accumulated interest...
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Old 18-05-2019, 09:40 PM   #3463
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Well, he is not even vested in Noble and still wanted to create a Telegram chat for the Noble Investors is already sign that he is up to something as this people had already moved on...He want to drag the Noble investors back for whatever agenda he is trying to seek...
Hi dude, as investors, we all want the best outcome for our investments.

Even if our investment goes bad, we have to do our utmost to recover what we can. While I don't think public money should be used to bail out personal investments, it is fair game if investors have reasons to believe that certain parties did not discharge their duties responsibility.

You can see in liquidation reports that liquidators follow a strict procedure when looking at avenues for recovery. Most recently when California Fitness went bankrupt (the report from the liquidators was published recently):

https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/e...e-6024389.html

The liquidators found that the auditors and certain members of management and the BoD did not act responsibly. They also attempted to pursue legal action against them, but weighed it against the resources it would cost to do so, as well as the estimated benefit they would have obtained if they were successful. Ultimately, they decided against it (for various reasons).

This is to say that even if a company goes under, recovery is still possible from various parties. The probability of success would obviously differ from case to case, as it would from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. The US, for example, has a much more litigious cultutre, and also courts that have a lot more experience in these matters.

So we shouldn't simply dismiss these investors as naive, foolish, or stupid. Certain ideas may sound more far-fetched than others, but in times of distress, things are seldom as clear and the situation can change very quickly.

Rather than bash people for their motives (which honestly is the same as any investor who just wants the best return for his investment) why don't we objectively evaluate the suggestions and critique them.

If these hyflux investors succeed in court, it would bring a whole lot of benefits to me and you. Management, directors, and auditors would have to be held to a higher level of scrutiny because they know they can be sued if they are not up to mark. Corporate governance as a whole would increase in the country (I don't have much faith in the current level of corporate governance).

I didn't invest in Hyflux, but I certainly hope these investors are able to get back something. With the benefit of hindsight, perhaps there were some warning signs flashing. But how about the management or auditors? Why should they be allowed to just wash their hands and walk off? Why didn't management impair their assets; how about the auditors who signed off the audit report?

The interesting thing is, if the auditors had written down the assets of the company much earlier, Hyflux might not have even been allowed to issue these wonky instruments because of the company's high leverage (Caveat: I have little knowledge regarding the status of Hyflux at the time of issuance and do not know if it ought to have been impaired at that point). A lot of time and heartache could have been saved by everyone involved.
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Old 18-05-2019, 09:41 PM   #3464
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Will be v impacting to votes for this year.
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Old 18-05-2019, 09:41 PM   #3465
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Will be v impacting to votes for this year.
70% still win?
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