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Old 13-07-2019, 10:51 PM   #3601
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Wow, I didn't know now CPF/SRS is a rating agency...You think government is there to babysit you so that your investment will huat ah?You don't even need to pay Capital Gains Tax or Tax on Dividends, now you want government to help make financial decisions for you...Might as well put all your money in CPF and let government manage your own finance...People buy the bonds is their own choice...Nobody forced the 39,000 retail investors to put in $900m into Hyflux...You think the 2 million plus Singaporean who are not affected by the Hyflux problem vs the 39,000, do you think the issus is with CPF or the 39,000 people are stupid...

You say like CPF is the reason why people put money into Hyflux...Why the hell does it only affect 39,000 people only? What about the millions of Singaporeans who did not put a single cent into Hyflux...
not all the stocks and bonds can use CPF/SRS to invest .

only selected few are allowed to. To be fair why not every counter but the fact is
only selected counters can use CPF/SRS to invest.

so it is studied evaluated by the relevant people and approved before can be allowed for CPF/SRS to invest.

For hyflux retail bonds to the old uncle and aunty out there, in a way it Is rated

Last edited by dreamwork7878; 13-07-2019 at 11:04 PM..
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Old 14-07-2019, 01:40 AM   #3602
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not all the stocks and bonds can use CPF/SRS to invest .

only selected few are allowed to. To be fair why not every counter but the fact is
only selected counters can use CPF/SRS to invest.

so it is studied evaluated by the relevant people and approved before can be allowed for CPF/SRS to invest.

For hyflux retail bonds to the old uncle and aunty out there, in a way it Is rated
This is very wrong. The bonds under cpf/srs r not necessarily good. Bonds not under cpf/srs can be good too. It is like using acra as benchmark. Do all companies registered under acra have good products/services? While other companies not in acra r bad?

Even when u use proper assessment on the bonds, there is no 100% that it will not be defaulted. Arbo why bank accts have sdic?

Last edited by wutawa; 14-07-2019 at 01:52 AM..
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Old 14-07-2019, 09:32 AM   #3603
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not all the stocks and bonds can use CPF/SRS to invest .

only selected few are allowed to. To be fair why not every counter but the fact is
only selected counters can use CPF/SRS to invest.
This is one of the few issues about CPF investing that is debatable.

The government has to ask itself: whether it wants to give Singaporeans access to the full universe of investments and allow them to make choices for themselves, or whether they want to restrict the list of investments so that retail investors don't end up buying junk they don't understand (eg. leveraged inverse etf).

The cost is more than just to that investor obviously, because it trickles down to society-at-large when that investor loses all his money and is then reliant on the government for financial support.

Even then, the list of permissible investments is arguable. What to include or exclude?

But more importantly, single-issuer caps should be introduced to limit positions to no more than 5% of your CPF portfolio. I'm not sure if these exist now in any form.
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Old 14-07-2019, 09:37 AM   #3604
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not all the stocks and bonds can use CPF/SRS to invest .

only selected few are allowed to. To be fair why not every counter but the fact is
only selected counters can use CPF/SRS to invest.

so it is studied evaluated by the relevant people and approved before can be allowed for CPF/SRS to invest.

For hyflux retail bonds to the old uncle and aunty out there, in a way it Is rated
https://www.cpf.gov.sg/Assets/member...ntProducts.pdf

"However, the CPF Board does not specifically endorse any product providers or investment products included under the CPF Investment Scheme (CPFIS). All investments come with risk and you may lose all or a portion of the amount invested. If you are not confident of investing on your own, you may consider leaving your money in your CPF accounts, which earns risk-free interest."

From CPF...

We are back to this basically, just different agency or institution....

"We invested in Hyflux because government support for the company was very strong. We invested because Temasek had invested. And Temasek must have done its due diligence."

https://www.straitstimes.com/busines...-hong-lim-park

At the end of the day, there is not a single mention of your own fault for investing in Hyflux...All is just blaming others for a decision that you made on your own...Nobody forced you to invest in Hyflux...If you have zero financial knowledge or just attended a 3-day course on finance and think you are an investment genius or the next Warren Buffet, why do you put all your life savings into Hyflux? Is that what they teach you in the 3 days? Put all your money into Hyflux PnP or put all your money on any stocks and bonds that is investible by CPF?
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Old 14-07-2019, 09:42 AM   #3605
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This is one of the few issues about CPF investing that is debatable.

The government has to ask itself: whether it wants to give Singaporeans access to the full universe of investments and allow them to make choices for themselves, or whether they want to restrict the list of investments so that retail investors don't end up buying junk they don't understand (eg. leveraged inverse etf).

The cost is more than just to that investor obviously, because it trickles down to society-at-large when that investor loses all his money and is then reliant on the government for financial support.

Even then, the list of permissible investments is arguable. What to include or exclude?

But more importantly, single-issuer caps should be introduced to limit positions to no more than 5% of your CPF portfolio. I'm not sure if these exist now in any form.
"You can invest your CPF savings under the CPF investment Scheme- OA (CPFIS-OA) after setting aside $20,000 in your OA. Likewise for CPF Investment Scheme SA (CPFIS-SA), you will need to set aside $40,000 in your SA.

In addition, you can only invest your OA savings up to 35% and 10% of your investible savings* in stock and gold respectively, also known as the stock and gold limits."

There is already a limit that you can only invest up to 35% of your CPF into stocks after setting aside $20k in the OA or $40k in SA...So if anyone were to say that their whole CPF got wipe out by investment in Hyflux is just outright lying because of the cap on your investment amount by CPF...

Last edited by makav31i; 14-07-2019 at 09:45 AM..
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Old 14-07-2019, 09:53 AM   #3606
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https://www.cpf.gov.sg/Assets/member...ntProducts.pdf

"However, the CPF Board does not specifically endorse any product providers or investment products included under the CPF Investment Scheme (CPFIS). All investments come with risk and you may lose all or a portion of the amount invested. If you are not confident of investing on your own, you may consider leaving your money in your CPF accounts, which earns risk-free interest."

From CPF...

We are back to this basically, just different agency or institution....

"We invested in Hyflux because government support for the company was very strong. We invested because Temasek had invested. And Temasek must have done its due diligence."

https://www.straitstimes.com/busines...-hong-lim-park

At the end of the day, there is not a single mention of your own fault for investing in Hyflux...All is just blaming others for a decision that you made on your own...Nobody forced you to invest in Hyflux...If you have zero financial knowledge or just attended a 3-day course on finance and think you are an investment genius or the next Warren Buffet, why do you put all your life savings into Hyflux? Is that what they teach you in the 3 days? Put all your money into Hyflux PnP or put all your money on any stocks and bonds that is investible by CPF?

There are governance to listing on stock of exchange.
These companies need to have at least
4 to 5 years of profit before they can list
on sgx.

Once listed on sgx only selected companies can be
bought using CPF/SRS.

these companies are filter and accessed, evaluated approved by some authority before they are recommended as safe for cpf/srs investors.


then why is it there are so many other stocks listed on
Singapore stock exchange (SGX) these stocks are not allowed to be bought using CPF/SRS ?

can you explain why ?


to the old uncle and aunty with no financial back ground. they
take this as a "form of rating" . already evaluated by the authority
this is not rating then what is that ?


Hyflux retail bonds is rated investable using SRS/CPF.

hence many old uncle and aunty used cash to buy too.


many of you said hyflux retail bonds is a junk bonds.
then sgx/mas have so many financial expert there.
why they rate a junk bonds investable and recommended such bonds to the retailer to
invest using cpf/srs ?

Last edited by dreamwork7878; 14-07-2019 at 10:05 AM..
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Old 14-07-2019, 10:19 AM   #3607
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There are governance to listing on stock of exchange.
These companies need to have at least
4 to 5 years of profit before they can list
on sgx.

Once listed on sgx only selected companies can be
bought using CPF/SRS.

these companies are filter and accessed, evaluated approved by some authority before they are recommended as safe for cpf/srs investors.


then why is it there are so many other stocks listed on
Singapore stock exchange (SGX) these stocks are not allowed to be bought using CPF/SRS ?

can you explain why ?


to the old uncle and aunty with no financial back ground. they
take this as a "form of rating" . already evaluated by the authority
this is not rating then what is that ?


Hyflux retail bonds is rated investable using SRS/CPF.

hence many old uncle and aunty used cash to buy too.


many of you said hyflux retail bonds is a junk bonds.
then sgx/mas have so many financial expert there.
why they rate a junk bonds investable and recommended such bonds to the retailer to
invest using cpf/srs ?
CPF clearly stated this in the important message...

"However, the CPF Board does not specifically endorse any product providers or investment products included under the CPF Investment Scheme (CPFIS). All investments come with risk and you may lose all or a portion of the amount invested. If you are not confident of investing on your own, you may consider leaving your money in your CPF accounts, which earns risk-free interest."

You choose to ignore it...If you think you have a strong case, go and take legal action against CPF...
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Old 14-07-2019, 10:21 AM   #3608
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The newspaper author who wrote on straits times not once but many times.

Did MAS/SGX change the status for hyflux/retail bonds ?
these people who work in mas/sgx are with sound and solid financial knowledge.
MAS/SGX with good financial knowledge totally ignored the straits time author writer.

and hyflux retail bonds is still rated investable until the last day when it got suspended.
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Old 14-07-2019, 01:08 PM   #3609
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"You can invest your CPF savings under the CPF investment Scheme- OA (CPFIS-OA) after setting aside $20,000 in your OA. Likewise for CPF Investment Scheme SA (CPFIS-SA), you will need to set aside $40,000 in your SA.

In addition, you can only invest your OA savings up to 35% and 10% of your investible savings* in stock and gold respectively, also known as the stock and gold limits."

There is already a limit that you can only invest up to 35% of your CPF into stocks after setting aside $20k in the OA or $40k in SA...So if anyone were to say that their whole CPF got wipe out by investment in Hyflux is just outright lying because of the cap on your investment amount by CPF...
Hmm...were the Hyflux PnP considered a stock? Do hybrid instruments fall within the scope of the 35%?

And anyway my beef is with single issuer caps, not with the cap on asset classes. 35% in a single stock is obviously too much.

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Old 14-07-2019, 03:20 PM   #3610
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Hmm...were the Hyflux PnP considered a stock? Do hybrid instruments fall within the scope of the 35%?

And anyway my beef is with single issuer caps, not with the cap on asset classes. 35% in a single stock is obviously too much.

You ask people like dreamwork7878, he claim to not have any financial knowledge or just attended a 3 day course on finance but put his whole life savings on Hyflux only...100% of whole life savings on a single company...When it was all good, he was bragging to people in this forum that he is getting 6% returns from Hyflux like the next Warren Buffet...Now got problem, all the blame on all different party for his own financial decision...
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Old 14-07-2019, 03:30 PM   #3611
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The newspaper author who wrote on straits times not once but many times.

Did MAS/SGX change the status for hyflux/retail bonds ?
these people who work in mas/sgx are with sound and solid financial knowledge.
MAS/SGX with good financial knowledge totally ignored the straits time author writer.

and hyflux retail bonds is still rated investable until the last day when it got suspended.
You choose to not only ignore the writer but went further to belittle the writer...So you can't claim to be not aware of the red flags raised on Hyflux as you choose to ignore it...
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Old 14-07-2019, 04:48 PM   #3612
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I'm one of those that got burnt by this Hyflux and only myself to blame for not monitoring closely.
We are answerable to our own actions for any wrong decisions made.

With or without financial experience, one should know never put all your eggs into one basket and invest within your means.

Do remember that nobody will bail anyone out of their wrong investments without getting any benefits and by blaming MAS & CPF will not bring anything.

I know it's an expensive lesson but there's nothing we can do now.

Blaring your woes here makes no difference. Learn to let go and move on. Not easy but we still have to live on.
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Old 14-07-2019, 05:36 PM   #3613
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The newspaper author who wrote on straits times not once but many times.

Did MAS/SGX change the status for hyflux/retail bonds ?
these people who work in mas/sgx are with sound and solid financial knowledge.
MAS/SGX with good financial knowledge totally ignored the straits time author writer.

and hyflux retail bonds is still rated investable until the last day when it got suspended.
i think you are mislead by the term investable
it means the product can be invested in with your money. it doesn't mean profitable or risk free.
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Old 14-07-2019, 09:00 PM   #3614
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6% return leh. Bet u all earn like siao n thot u guys r gurus rite during those period. So nth to complain la
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Old 14-07-2019, 10:53 PM   #3615
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The newspaper author who wrote on straits times not once but many times.

Did MAS/SGX change the status for hyflux/retail bonds ?
these people who work in mas/sgx are with sound and solid financial knowledge.
MAS/SGX with good financial knowledge totally ignored the straits time author writer.

and hyflux retail bonds is still rated investable until the last day when it got suspended.
don't mind me asking, what other stocks/bonds are you holding currently?
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