HWZ Forums

Login Register FAQ Mark Forums Read

Hyflux 6% Perpetual Securities

Like Tree301Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 07-08-2019, 09:27 PM   #3646
Senior Member
 
FrostWurm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,884
but the banks and organization they have other business and these banks they can come back with huge profits.

but for us retailer once we make loss we are totally wipe out
Who ask you to all-in into the bond?

Even the most jialat gambler doesn't go to the casino and bet all his money on his first game.

You come here all the time to whine, it's not like anyone here can anything for you. Right now you can only hope for the best and plan your finances going forward.

Life is full of ups and downs, nobody wins all the time. But if you are always stuck in the past, it's hard to move forward.

Seriously, if you cannot adopt the right mentality towards investing, then it may not be for you. Better to leave it to some professional. Just treat this as a lesson learnt in blood and improve on yourself and your career. Maybe in 30 years you can look back and laugh at this episode.
FrostWurm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2019, 09:29 PM   #3647
Arch-Supremacy Member
 
dreamwork7878's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 24,012
Who ask you to all-in into the bond?

Even the most jialat gambler doesn't go to the casino and bet all his money on his first game.

You come here all the time to whine, it's not like anyone here can anything for you. Right now you can only hope for the best and plan your finances going forward.

Life is full of ups and downs, nobody wins all the time. But if you are always stuck in the past, it's hard to move forward.

Seriously, if you cannot adopt the right mentality towards investing, then it may not be for you. Better to leave it to some professional. Just treat this as a lesson learnt in blood and improve on yourself and your career. Maybe in 30 years you can look back and laugh at this episode.
The banks are making huge profits.
now they are fighting with the retailer for the pie .

The banks didn't write off their loans. they can get back their money from other business easily. Yet they choose to fight the share of hyflux bad loan with the retailer.
why don't you tell these to all the banks ?



The bank can write legal clauses to their advantage. Problem loans they can get back
their money with zero casualty. And we retailer will get all hair cuts.

just look at their profits.
This practice is very unfailr.

This unfair practice ought to be stop during swiber time or noble time.
But these swiber and noble investor who got burnt choose to keep their mouth shut.
and this leads to the next retail listing bulling and next retail listing bulling.
During that time sgx, mas also don't care. Ha ha ha .. retailer kena.
never mind, sgx and mas people are equip with finance knowledge we wont kena all these kind of things one. we know how to open eyes big big. not our tai jee.

Retail bulling got to be stopped from now on
if not every generation the next retailer listing, retailer will get bullied by the legal clause

Last edited by dreamwork7878; 07-08-2019 at 10:02 PM..
dreamwork7878 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2019, 10:15 PM   #3648
Senior Member
 
FrostWurm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,884
The banks are making huge profits.
now they are fighting with the retailer for the pie .

The banks didn't write off their loans. they can get back their money from other business easily. Yet they choose to fight the share of hyflux bad loan with the retailer.
why don't you tell these to all the banks ?



The bank can write legal clauses to their advantage. Problem loans they can get back
their money with zero casualty. And we retailer will get all hair cuts.

just look at their profits.
This practice is very unfailr.

This unfair practice ought to be stop during swiber time or noble time.
But these swiber and noble investor who got burnt choose to keep their mouth shut.
and this leads to the next retail listing bulling and next retail listing bulling.
During that time sgx, mas also don't care. Ha ha ha .. retailer kena.
never mind, sgx and mas people are equip with finance knowledge they wont kena all these things one. they know how to open eyes big big. not their tai jee.

Retail bulling got to be stopped from now on
if not every generation the next retailer listing, retailer will get bullied by the legal clause
Firstly, you are really writing a whole lot of bullsh*t because the bank doesn't owe you a single cent and you don't owe the bank a single cent. They are not required to have empathy for you just because you lost money.

Both of you are investors in a company that has now gone bust. You argument is that the banks have written legal clauses to their advantage. The fact of the matter is, despite this, they are unlikely to get back much from their investment in hyflux because the company doesn't have many assets left compared to the amounts they owe.

Your next argument is why they may get back something while you get back nothing. The fact of the matter is, the loans made by the banks were most probably secured and thus of a lower interest rate. Very likely lower than your 6%.

I cannot see how you got "bullied", because the capital structure of the company was presented in the prospectus when they issued the bonds. If you choose not to read it then it is really your own fault.

The only thing I feel is questionable is whether the accountants and auditors did their jobs properly at the time of issuance and throughout the life of the company. If they didn't, then you probably deserve some sympathy if you relied on the financial statements believing they were fair.

But from what I can infer, you seem to have bought the bonds attracted only by the interest rate on offer. This is dangerous, and you know very well all investments carry risk.

Really cannot understand why you are whining here. Maybe to relieve stress? Then go ahead. But I doubt anyone here can help you get back your money.

Go back to pokemon go and keep your mind off the issue.
FrostWurm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2019, 10:16 PM   #3649
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 132
Retail investors always lose
Hojicha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2019, 10:18 PM   #3650
Arch-Supremacy Member
 
dreamwork7878's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 24,012
MAS do something for Hyflux retailer.

How can PUB remove tuasspring worth billions and now become zero overnight.

the contract between PUB and hyflux, how on earth are we to know of such lousy contract ? All of us are are tricked right from the beginning.

And look at these bank profits. They can survive with write off.
But retailer are getting bullied by the legal clauses.

This is unfair



SINGAPORE - The regulatory arm of the Singapore Exchange (SGX RegCo) has devised a roadmap to tighten its oversight over the market here, which includes setting up a whistle-blowing office and increasing the accountability of auditors, sponsors and issue managers.

SGX RegCo chief executive Tan Boon Gin announced the initiatives during an update on the organisation's measures for the first half of the 2020 financial year.

They will help to increase the trust and accountability of all participants in the marketcommunity, he said, adding: "We are looking to increase our regulatory presence in order to strengthen investor confidence and deter wrongdoing."


SGX RegCo's listings disciplinary committee has started hearings against three companies. This internal process ensures that penalties will be served if there has been wrongdoing.

It will also establish a whistle-blowing office to channel all regulation-related feedback to staff who can process these concerns.

"We want to assure the market that we take whistle-blowing seriously and that we are committed to following up on any information that we received in accordance with a public policy that we are going to publish on our website, that deals with, among other things how we maintain the confidentiality of the information," Mr Tan said.


Sponsors for Catalist companies will also be held more accountable. SGX RegCo will go to them for immediate answers when companies have problems.



Sponsors are professionals who vet offer documents and can come from banks, law or corporate finance firms.

Mr Tan noted: "Currently, we already perform regular and thematic inspections of our sponsors. However, if the answers that we receive are not satisfactory, you can expect us to go in to inspect them immediately, off-cycle, to check if there are gaps in their processes that need to be rectified."

It will also enhance the regulation of issue managers, who conduct due diligence on companies that are brought to list on the exchange. This will include how they can be taken to task if they fall short of standards.

Auditors will be held more accountable as well, with SGX RegCo holding public consultations over the next few months on requiring a second auditor in certain cases, and appointing a Singapore-based auditor for listed companies.

SGX RegCo will also work with independent financial advisers on standardising best practices, such as how they determine whether an exit offer is fair and reasonable.

The body will explore more robust regulations for property valuations, including proposals to ensure valuers are professionally qualified and their reports meet standards equivalent to the Singapore Institute of Surveyors and Valuers.

It is also reviewing its policies to ensure they stay effective, said Mr Tan, such as the need for quarterly reporting and the policy of having a minimum trading price (MTP).

He said: "We have actually developed other tools that are more direct, more effective and more surgical than MTP in addressing the risk of manipulation.

"At the same time, we have observed certain unintended consequences from MTP. For example, when a company consolidates its shares, in theory its market capitalisation should remain the same.

"But in practice, once companies have actually done the consolidation, we have observed that their share price has fallen post-consolidation and their market value has further declined."

Lastly, SGX RegCo will form a working group to review the retail bonds framework to better support retail investors when an issuer defaults.

Mr Tan said: "The default by issuers of retail bonds has been an issue of public concern. We will put together in the next few months a working group comprising industry professionals, investors and SGX RegCo, to review and see what is needed to improve disclosures and make clearer what happens in a default."

SGX RegCo will look at how investors can better organise themselves, provide more clarity on the role of the trustee which is required for retail bonds, and in the context of defaults, see how investors can better exercise their rights.



SINGAPORE (Aug 7): Singapore is examining ways to tighten regulation of retail bond issues and the real estate investment trust sector as it steps up investor protection in the city-state.

The Singapore Exchange’s regulatory arm, SGX RegCo, will create a working group to review and improve disclosures relating to retail bonds, SGX RegCo’s Chief Executive Officer Tan Boon Gin said in a statement setting out his organization’s goals for the remainder of the year.

The initiative follows a slew of bond defaults in Singapore, including by Swiber Holdings Ltd, Noble Group Ltd and Hyflux Ltd, which have left retail investors nursing losses in recent years.

The working group will look into ways to provide clarity on the role of trustees and how investors can better exercise their rights in the event of a default, according to the statement. A public consultation will follow the review.

Tan said SGX RegCo will also be consulting on a more robust regime for property valuations, as it looks to turn Singapore into an international center for REITs. These will include proposals to ensure property valuers have qualifications from professional bodies, and for valuation reports to meet standards equivalent to those set by the Singapore Institute of Surveyors and Valuers.

Among the other SGX RegCo initiatives announced Wednesday were:
•A review of the minimum trading price policy for listed companies
•A new framework for companies’ quarterly reporting, pending regulatory approval
•A review of the listings due-diligence guidelines issued by the Association of Banks in Singapore, with a view to improving internal controls and financial forecasts

Last edited by dreamwork7878; 07-08-2019 at 10:22 PM..
dreamwork7878 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2019, 10:10 AM   #3651
High Supremacy Member
 
crimsontactics's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 44,955
MAS do something for Hyflux retailer.

How can PUB remove tuasspring worth billions and now become zero overnight.

the contract between PUB and hyflux, how on earth are we to know of such lousy contract ? All of us are are tricked right from the beginning.

And look at these bank profits. They can survive with write off.
But retailer are getting bullied by the legal clauses.

This is unfair



SINGAPORE - The regulatory arm of the Singapore Exchange (SGX RegCo) has devised a roadmap to tighten its oversight over the market here, which includes setting up a whistle-blowing office and increasing the accountability of auditors, sponsors and issue managers.

SGX RegCo chief executive Tan Boon Gin announced the initiatives during an update on the organisation's measures for the first half of the 2020 financial year.

They will help to increase the trust and accountability of all participants in the marketcommunity, he said, adding: "We are looking to increase our regulatory presence in order to strengthen investor confidence and deter wrongdoing."


SGX RegCo's listings disciplinary committee has started hearings against three companies. This internal process ensures that penalties will be served if there has been wrongdoing.

It will also establish a whistle-blowing office to channel all regulation-related feedback to staff who can process these concerns.

"We want to assure the market that we take whistle-blowing seriously and that we are committed to following up on any information that we received in accordance with a public policy that we are going to publish on our website, that deals with, among other things how we maintain the confidentiality of the information," Mr Tan said.


Sponsors for Catalist companies will also be held more accountable. SGX RegCo will go to them for immediate answers when companies have problems.



Sponsors are professionals who vet offer documents and can come from banks, law or corporate finance firms.

Mr Tan noted: "Currently, we already perform regular and thematic inspections of our sponsors. However, if the answers that we receive are not satisfactory, you can expect us to go in to inspect them immediately, off-cycle, to check if there are gaps in their processes that need to be rectified."

It will also enhance the regulation of issue managers, who conduct due diligence on companies that are brought to list on the exchange. This will include how they can be taken to task if they fall short of standards.

Auditors will be held more accountable as well, with SGX RegCo holding public consultations over the next few months on requiring a second auditor in certain cases, and appointing a Singapore-based auditor for listed companies.

SGX RegCo will also work with independent financial advisers on standardising best practices, such as how they determine whether an exit offer is fair and reasonable.

The body will explore more robust regulations for property valuations, including proposals to ensure valuers are professionally qualified and their reports meet standards equivalent to the Singapore Institute of Surveyors and Valuers.

It is also reviewing its policies to ensure they stay effective, said Mr Tan, such as the need for quarterly reporting and the policy of having a minimum trading price (MTP).

He said: "We have actually developed other tools that are more direct, more effective and more surgical than MTP in addressing the risk of manipulation.

"At the same time, we have observed certain unintended consequences from MTP. For example, when a company consolidates its shares, in theory its market capitalisation should remain the same.

"But in practice, once companies have actually done the consolidation, we have observed that their share price has fallen post-consolidation and their market value has further declined."

Lastly, SGX RegCo will form a working group to review the retail bonds framework to better support retail investors when an issuer defaults.

Mr Tan said: "The default by issuers of retail bonds has been an issue of public concern. We will put together in the next few months a working group comprising industry professionals, investors and SGX RegCo, to review and see what is needed to improve disclosures and make clearer what happens in a default."

SGX RegCo will look at how investors can better organise themselves, provide more clarity on the role of the trustee which is required for retail bonds, and in the context of defaults, see how investors can better exercise their rights.



SINGAPORE (Aug 7): Singapore is examining ways to tighten regulation of retail bond issues and the real estate investment trust sector as it steps up investor protection in the city-state.

The Singapore Exchange’s regulatory arm, SGX RegCo, will create a working group to review and improve disclosures relating to retail bonds, SGX RegCo’s Chief Executive Officer Tan Boon Gin said in a statement setting out his organization’s goals for the remainder of the year.

The initiative follows a slew of bond defaults in Singapore, including by Swiber Holdings Ltd, Noble Group Ltd and Hyflux Ltd, which have left retail investors nursing losses in recent years.

The working group will look into ways to provide clarity on the role of trustees and how investors can better exercise their rights in the event of a default, according to the statement. A public consultation will follow the review.

Tan said SGX RegCo will also be consulting on a more robust regime for property valuations, as it looks to turn Singapore into an international center for REITs. These will include proposals to ensure property valuers have qualifications from professional bodies, and for valuation reports to meet standards equivalent to those set by the Singapore Institute of Surveyors and Valuers.

Among the other SGX RegCo initiatives announced Wednesday were:
•A review of the minimum trading price policy for listed companies
•A new framework for companies’ quarterly reporting, pending regulatory approval
•A review of the listings due-diligence guidelines issued by the Association of Banks in Singapore, with a view to improving internal controls and financial forecasts
Bro dreamwork, how much did you lose?

Sent from . using GAGT
crimsontactics is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2019, 10:15 AM   #3652
Arch-Supremacy Member
 
sanzhu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 11,638
Hyflux investors how u celebrate tomorrow
sanzhu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2019, 01:55 PM   #3653
Arch-Supremacy Member
 
Dividends Warrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 21,686
The banks are making huge profits.
now they are fighting with the retailer for the pie .

The banks didn't write off their loans. they can get back their money from other business easily. Yet they choose to fight the share of hyflux bad loan with the retailer.
why don't you tell these to all the banks ?

The bank can write legal clauses to their advantage. Problem loans they can get back
their money with zero casualty. And we retailer will get all hair cuts.

just look at their profits.
This practice is very unfailr.
That's why must invest in banks
__________________
Ride with me to CXG (创新高)!!!
Dividends Warrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2019, 03:10 PM   #3654
Supremacy Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,335
TuasOne

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news...ed-by-11789214
tmkedmw is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2019, 06:00 PM   #3655
Supremacy Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,335
Got half price side offer?

ttps://www.singaporelawwatch.sg/Head...ed-lenders-lum
tmkedmw is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2019, 08:27 PM   #3656
Senior Member
 
sleepwell2nite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 627
Hyflux investors how u celebrate tomorrow
sleepwell2nite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2019, 09:41 PM   #3657
Arch-Supremacy Member
 
dreamwork7878's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 24,012
Take a look at the loans to hyflux.
The Perpetual and Perpetual preferences loan amount are much higher compared to every banks.

Yet the banks has a priority to claim over the retailer.


We retailer are fools.
This game is totally unfair


The bank they have their own corporate lawyers. these bank can utilize these resources to play with hyflux , the court all day long. And the banks wont feel any pinch and these lawyers are at their barks and calls. There is no extra charges for over time from the corporate lawyers. They can just use them as if free.



what do the retailer have ?
we have everything to lose.

And guess what? The retail investor stand last in the line but the retail investor loan amount is much higher compared to the banks.

why banks can claim their money back but the retailer are to get hair cuts and to lose it all.

why is this so unfair ?
who created all these unfailr rules ?

Rules are created by human.

who are these unfair people.

can we single them out ?







and may I ask is it THE KOREA DEVELOPMENT BANK, mark in red box , there is a double entry ?

how come there is double entry for this bank of similar amount?




Last edited by dreamwork7878; 08-08-2019 at 10:43 PM..
dreamwork7878 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2019, 09:48 PM   #3658
Arch-Supremacy Member
 
dreamwork7878's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 24,012
Mizuho bank made a loan of 183 milions to hyflux.

But SIr, take a look at their profit .

Can they take impairment charges for hyflux ?

The CEO wont feel any pinch isn't it ?


dreamwork7878 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2019, 09:50 PM   #3659
Arch-Supremacy Member
 
dreamwork7878's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 24,012
Bangkok bank public bank made loan to hyflux of 124 millions.

look at their profits.

Can they also take impairment charges.

the banks wont feel anything nor sad.

dreamwork7878 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2019, 09:52 PM   #3660
Arch-Supremacy Member
 
dreamwork7878's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 24,012
BNP bank made a loan of 113 million to hyflux.

take look at what BNP CEO got to say

they made huge profit.

what is 113 million write off to the banks ?



Last edited by dreamwork7878; 08-08-2019 at 10:19 PM..
dreamwork7878 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Important Forum Advisory Note
This forum is moderated by volunteer moderators who will react only to members' feedback on posts. Moderators are not employees or representatives of HWZ. Forum members and moderators are responsible for their own posts.

Please refer to our Terms of Service for more information.


Thread Tools

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On