HWZ Forums

Login Register FAQ Mark Forums Read

Hyflux 6% Perpetual Securities

Like Tree302Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 09-08-2019, 08:53 AM   #3676
Supremacy Member
 
m0n0n0ke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,986
Any doctor here?
Maybe he can join the telegram group
m0n0n0ke is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2019, 09:18 AM   #3677
Member
 
justwakeup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 360
Sir, i salute you.....
justwakeup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2019, 09:25 AM   #3678
Supremacy Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,309
Singtel & GIC pump US$525mln & US$712mln into Airtel ?
how come GIC can pump money to bail out these people ?
but come to hyflux retail investor , they cant be bothered ?
If you want a serious answer, this investment is contingent on getting greater equity in Airtel, which in turn is contingent on regulatory approval. In short, these large investors believe theyíre making a good investment with the prospect of decent or better returns. They could be wrong, but thatís their assessment.

Temasek invested in Hyflux, made a little money, then exited ó all years ago. Now Hyflux is not an attractive investment except perhaps at comparatively low valuations.

A Hyflux investor buying 6% coupon notes (in a ~1.5% government bond environment) was, by definition, taking a huge risk. They were junk bonds, and quite junky at that. That was and is patently obvious when the advertised yield is quadruple the safest available yield at the time. If you didnít understand you were taking a big risk, you were either naive or delusional. No particular expertise was required: ďjust look at the yield.Ē No Ph.D in economics or finance required. And that high risk was realized/actualized, thatís all. Unless fraud was involved (doesnít look like it), nobody owes the gamblers any chips ó and that is what a 6% note is, a visit to the blackjack table. Even if fraud was involved, the gamblers are unlikely to recover much from fraudsters. Grandmothers simply wonít be paying higher water bills to bail out Hyflux gamblers. Singaporeans who all depend on the national sovereign wealth funds to deliver high and sustainable returns (to support well above market CPF yields and new polyclinics, as examples) wonít be bailing out Hyflux gamblers either, except to the extent all Singaporean gamblers have social service and CPF backstops to reduce rates of destitution.

If you think otherwise, then go sit down with half a dozen widows on low fixed incomes and explain to them why they ought to pay higher water bills to pay off your gambling losses.

Iíve lost money on investments in now defunct companies, more than once. I reacted very differently, though, before and after those investments. (They were all tiny, and I was keenly aware they were risky.) Based on your posts, it seems you have a gambling problem. Please, go seek professional help.
BBCWatcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2019, 10:41 AM   #3679
Arch-Supremacy Member
 
dreamwork7878's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 24,012
If you want a serious answer, this investment is contingent on getting greater equity in Airtel, which in turn is contingent on regulatory approval. In short, these large investors believe they’re making a good investment with the prospect of decent or better returns. They could be wrong, but that’s their assessment.

Temasek invested in Hyflux, made a little money, then exited — all years ago. Now Hyflux is not an attractive investment except perhaps at comparatively low valuations.

A Hyflux investor buying 6% coupon notes (in a ~1.5% government bond environment) was, by definition, taking a huge risk. They were junk bonds, and quite junky at that. That was and is patently obvious when the advertised yield is quadruple the safest available yield at the time. If you didn’t understand you were taking a big risk, you were either naive or delusional. No particular expertise was required: “just look at the yield.” No Ph.D in economics or finance required. And that high risk was realized/actualized, that’s all. Unless fraud was involved (doesn’t look like it), nobody owes the gamblers any chips — and that is what a 6% note is, a visit to the blackjack table. Even if fraud was involved, the gamblers are unlikely to recover much from fraudsters. Grandmothers simply won’t be paying higher water bills to bail out Hyflux gamblers. Singaporeans who all depend on the national sovereign wealth funds to deliver high and sustainable returns (to support well above market CPF yields and new polyclinics, as examples) won’t be bailing out Hyflux gamblers either, except to the extent all Singaporean gamblers have social service and CPF backstops to reduce rates of destitution.

If you think otherwise, then go sit down with half a dozen widows on low fixed incomes and explain to them why they ought to pay higher water bills to pay off your gambling losses.

I’ve lost money on investments in now defunct companies, more than once. I reacted very differently, though, before and after those investments. (They were all tiny, and I was keenly aware they were risky.) Based on your posts, it seems you have a gambling problem. Please, go seek professional help.
hyflux PNP and Hyflux Preference shares are bonds. Money loan to hyflux.
You say gaminling. the money is used to build tuasspring so you get water to drink.

ask you help government build tuasspring you refuse to put a single cents in.
we put in money you say we greedy.

would you even help government years back then ?
we give you a chance to help the government to fund and build tuasspring you wont even bother. you didn't even put a cents in. Not even a penny. what help did you and the rest of the people who rebutted us offered any help to the government in building tuasspring years back then ?



then the list of loan from the banks they are also gambling ?
and even maybank is gambling ?

why the bank have higher priority to get back their money when their loan is much lower compared to the retail PNP ?

why are the laws and clauses so bias ?
you can see yourself.

is unfair and is retail bulling.
we have cyber bullying law, we have work force bullying law.
woman harassment law, woman charter

right before our eyes retail investment bullying.


no body care



isn't the PNP loans much higher in amount compared to the banks loans?

are the bank gambling?
why maybank can get their money back ?

why PUB can take back the tuassping at zero when this is funded by the retail PNP?
Is this not bullying ?




Last edited by dreamwork7878; 09-08-2019 at 12:26 PM..
dreamwork7878 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2019, 10:55 AM   #3680
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,469
Take a look at the loans to hyflux.
The Perpetual and Perpetual preferences loan amount are much higher compared to every banks.

Yet the banks has a priority to claim over the retailer.


We retailer are fools.
This game is totally unfair


The bank they have their own corporate lawyers. these bank can utilize these resources to play with hyflux , the court all day long. And the banks wont feel any pinch and these lawyers are at their barks and calls. There is no extra charges for over time from the corporate lawyers. They can just use them as if free.



what do the retailer have ?
we have everything to lose.

And guess what? The retail investor stand last in the line but the retail investor loan amount is much higher compared to the banks.

why banks can claim their money back but the retailer are to get hair cuts and to lose it all.

why is this so unfair ?
who created all these unfailr rules ?

Rules are created by human.

who are these unfair people.

can we single them out ?







and may I ask is it THE KOREA DEVELOPMENT BANK, mark in red box , there is a double entry ?

how come there is double entry for this bank of similar amount?



Bank got no shareholder to answer to???

Take loss and move on with life
Nainai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2019, 10:56 AM   #3681
Arch-Supremacy Member
 
MikeDirnt78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 18,800
This dreamingatwork guy is becoming a nuisance.

Can the others just click the report button so that he can disappear from this thread?

He is just going around in circles and refusing to admit his mistakes.
__________________
Eat | Live | Punk Rock | Save | Invest | Finance | Fitness | Geneco | Tech
MikeDirnt78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2019, 11:03 AM   #3682
Master Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 4,517
hyflux PNP and Hyflux Preference shares are bonds. Money loan to hyflux.
If it says "This is a junk bond." in the Hyflux 6% Perpetual Securities prospectus would that deter you from investing? Better still, CANNOT get back principle in the event of bankruptcy.

This is the reason why Singapore Savings Bond interest is NOT 6% becuase its principle is gauranteed.
peterchan75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2019, 11:06 AM   #3683
Master Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 4,517
This dreamingatwork guy is becoming a nuisance.

Can the others just click the report button so that he can disappear from this thread?

He is just going around in circles and refusing to admit his mistakes.
What if the retail investor is duped into thinking that it's a safe investment?
peterchan75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2019, 11:12 AM   #3684
Arch-Supremacy Member
 
dreamwork7878's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 24,012
GIC and Singtel can buy the rights.
Pump in millions to save Airtell shareholders in India.

Become white knight.

we have no complaint GIC becoming a white knight saving the indian investors
it is okay to save the Indian investor. it is alright to do so.
we are proud to do so.






over at our own back yard
this is the treatment to us.
when the Hyflux retail investor funded to build Tuasspring for water.
so Singapore will have more drinking water.
so we will be independent .

But the treatment to us , it is just so unfair.
Sir please take a look and re-review.

it is a world apart.


Last edited by dreamwork7878; 09-08-2019 at 11:24 AM..
dreamwork7878 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2019, 11:43 AM   #3685
Member
 
justwakeup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 360
GIC and Singtel can buy the rights.
Pump in millions to save Airtell shareholders in India.

Become white knight.

we have no complaint GIC becoming a white knight saving the indian investors
it is okay to save the Indian investor. it is alright to do so.
we are proud to do so.






over at our own back yard
this is the treatment to us.
when the Hyflux retail investor funded to build Tuasspring for water.
so Singapore will have more drinking water.
so we will be independent .

But the treatment to us , it is just so unfair.
Sir please take a look and re-review.

it is a world apart.

No body has any obligation to become white knight.

Still, i salute you for your efforts. If only you can save your efforts for other meaningful things...maybe setup a party to push for system reform like what you advocate for?
justwakeup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2019, 02:26 PM   #3686
Senior Member
 
SibehHL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 980
Duped, is to deceive, hoax, tricked, swindle etc.

Did you just claim that someone swindled someone into buying the retail bonds? Better have something to support your claim and not just tiagong....



What if the retail investor is duped into thinking that it's a safe investment?
MikeDirnt78 likes this.
SibehHL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2019, 04:34 PM   #3687
Arch-Supremacy Member
 
dreamwork7878's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 24,012
Tuasspring is build upon using the first tranche of hyflux retail PNP N2H.

PUB took it away without even paying a single cents back to the
hyflux retailer.

PUB continue to use tuasspring charging bills upon every single house hold , every offices building, every infrastructure, every construction, every shipping, every automobiles, every military base , every business that need water
--- months after months, years upon years and PUB took Tuas spring back for free.


Sir you as Leaders in PUB, you don't have any remorse in doing so ?

how can PUB do this to us?
it is purely bullying the retailer.
You steal from old folks hyflux pnp, you rob the weak retailers.

We used our hard earned money to assist in building Tuas Spring.
you took it for a song.

And on National Day we the groups of affected PNP holders are deeply grieve over the
losses of our hard earned money


when we talk against work place bullying, cyber bullying.

BUT PUB is bullying the retailer in broad daylight.

This is stealing from the groups of retailer .
Why is this allowed ? this should be stopped and values
should be return to the PNP investor.

could we propose you take in PNP N2H.
and pay back our capital over the years.

we can forfeit the 6% what ever dividen.

at least give us back our own capital.
we the PNP investor gave life to Tuas Spring and you just took it away with
a stoke of your pen.



As for the banks.
You can see they can absorb all loss by doing impairment charges.
We have checked and confirmed all banks make impairment charges and
within a few quarters they start making bilions in profits else where.

However, for us the retailer we are badly hit and we cannot perform such feat like what the banks can do.

Last edited by dreamwork7878; 09-08-2019 at 11:32 PM..
dreamwork7878 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2019, 05:39 PM   #3688
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 652
UOB made a loan of 152K to hyflux.

For a sum of 152K and with the huge billons in profits. Sir you know what to do ?


Wow. You did quite a bit of research.

If only you put in the same effort to look Hyflux balance sheet and cash flow.
mindgamey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2019, 05:51 PM   #3689
High Supremacy Member
 
coolhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 26,820
How much did you roughly put in?

Sent from HMD Global TA-1004 using GAGT
coolhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2019, 06:43 PM   #3690
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,121
Wow. You did quite a bit of research.

If only you put in the same effort to look Hyflux balance sheet and cash flow.
Lol, yeah maybe then he won't have invested so much.
weng0202 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Important Forum Advisory Note
This forum is moderated by volunteer moderators who will react only to members' feedback on posts. Moderators are not employees or representatives of HWZ. Forum members and moderators are responsible for their own posts.

Please refer to our Terms of Service for more information.


Thread Tools

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On