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Hyflux 6% Perpetual Securities

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Old 09-08-2019, 07:52 PM   #3691
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事后孔明.... hindsight is always 6/6. Lol.

Wow. You did quite a bit of research.

If only you put in the same effort to look Hyflux balance sheet and cash flow.
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Old 09-08-2019, 11:47 PM   #3692
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Perpetual bonds should not be even called bonds, very misleading if it is marketed to retailers that way. When claiming on company assets, perpetual bond has the least priority.
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Old 10-08-2019, 09:34 AM   #3693
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Perpetual bonds should not be even called bonds, very misleading if it is marketed to retailers that way. When claiming on company assets, perpetual bond has the least priority.
They clearly stated this...

"Investors should note that the Securities are perpetual in nature and, unlike plain vanilla bonds, do not have a fixed redemption date. Investors will only receive all or part of their investment amount if the Securities are (i) redeemed at the option of the Issuer in accordance with the Terms and Conditions, in which case investors should receive the principal amount, together with distribution accrued (if any) or (ii) sold in the open market at the prevailing market price, in which case the investor may incur losses if the proceeds from the sale is less than the original investment. In addition, investors should also note that, as with typical perpetual capital securities, payment of distributions under the Securities may also be deferred for an indefinite period and investors have no recourse to the Issuer if such deferral is made in accordance with the Terms and Conditions."

People choose not to read the OIS and invest their hard earned money...Legally they are not even misled...If they feel that they have a case, they would have already taken legal actions against whoever they think they have a strong case against...
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Old 10-08-2019, 09:55 AM   #3694
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Approved by MAS & SGX.
DBS said so too & not found guilty.

The fault is us.

Perpetual bonds should not be even called bonds, very misleading if it is marketed to retailers that way. When claiming on company assets, perpetual bond has the least priority.
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Old 10-08-2019, 10:21 AM   #3695
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Approved by MAS & SGX.
DBS said so too & not found guilty.
The MAS doesn't approve securities offered for sale. It can offer its disapproval, maybe, but that’s it.

The SGX only handled the aftermarket trading of these securities. The initial placement isn’t through the SGX. The SGX has only very basic, cursory rules about what it’ll accept for listing, such as periodic financial reports (that the SGX does not routinely audit or even necessarily read).

DBS sold these securities, but investors had to click through or press through stern warnings about risks and acknowledge that they read the offering information. Heck, there’s a stern warning when buying SSBs, which is hilarious.

They clearly stated this...
They did indeed, but let’s assume a Hyflux investor foolishly didn’t read anything except “6%!!!!” What on earth did they imagine to be a 6% coupon note in a ~1.5% yielding government bond interest environment? Risk free? Low risk? All you had to do was look at the promised yield! There was/is absolutely no special analytical skill required here. That number told you all you needed to know about how extremely risky these notes were. They were offered at about quadruple the yield of government bonds!

Yes, OK, the regulatory environment in Singapore is too lax, and for no good reason. In many jurisdictions DBS and Hyflux would not have been legally permitted to sell these notes to retail investors. Perpetuals are illegal in many jurisdictions, and low minimum unrated bonds/notes (i.e. retail denominations) are also often illegal. The same should be true in Singapore, in my view. If anything this nonsense is holding back the development of reasonable bond funds for retail investors. (MBH is OK, but it could be better.) And Hyflux investors have my sympathies. But, good grief, 6%!

Last edited by BBCWatcher; 10-08-2019 at 10:24 AM..
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Old 10-08-2019, 10:31 AM   #3696
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Maybank is making huge profits from other business sector
to the tune of billions.

Yet it stress hyflux and wanting to liquidate it.


And when unplesant things happens these banks are
on the front line and they can collect their money back
when they are making to the tune of billions.

They used their internal resources their corporate lawyers to
create stress on business unit. with no additional charges.
Overtime, from corporate lawyers etc all as if free.



while the retailer who made loan to hyflux we
stood right behind the lines and to get hair cuts
and lose it all.

why is our system so unfair ?


Banks money is money.
Retail money is not money ?

retail money . It is also in Singapore dollar SGD loan to hyflux.

we ask you why ? why such unfair rules ?

senior not senior ? why
rules and clause are created by human.

you did this to us.


The whole list of banks who made loans to hyflux they are making to the tune of billions in profits. If the banks are to take it individually and write it off or do a impairment charges and amortize it over a few quarter. Such loss is going to be peanuts to the banks. yet they chose to create stress to hyflux and affect the retailer who has the highest amount of loans to hyflux.
So many old folks are affected .

The banks have other business, credit cards, home loan, digital banking, investment, wealth banking, insurance, syndicate loans etc...
they have a full spectrum of business to cover back their losses.
But did they made loss, they are making billions in profits.


Now For a very small amount of money to get back our money , these bank chose to fight with the retailer.


who is more greedy , we ask you ?

But for the retailer, we are wipe out





Last edited by dreamwork7878; 10-08-2019 at 11:05 AM..
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Old 10-08-2019, 10:40 AM   #3697
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Maybank is making huge profits from other business sector
to the tune of billions.

Yet it stress hyflux and wanting to liquidate it.


And when unplesant things happens these banks are
on the front line and they can collect their money back
when they are making to the tune of billions.

They used their internal resources their corporate lawyers to
create stress on business unit. with no additional charges.
Overtime, from corporate lawyers etc all as if free.



while the retailer who made loan to hyflux they
stood right behind the lines and to get hair cuts
and lose it all.

why is our system so unfair ?


Banks money is money.
Retail money is not money ?

retail money . It is also in Singapore dollar SGD.

we ask you why ? why such unfair rules ?

senior not senior ? why
rules and clause are created by human.

you did this to us.







Bro, you got make profits also right?

Sent from HMD Global TA-1004 using GAGT
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Old 10-08-2019, 12:17 PM   #3698
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Bro, you got make profits also right?

Sent from HMD Global TA-1004 using GAGT
Lost capital, end up lost more than gain. Actually if he can find out so much about the banks profit, maybe he should have just invested in those banks. Haha
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Old 10-08-2019, 12:45 PM   #3699
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Maybank makes $$$$$ in other investments is irrelevant.

Banks are not Santa Claus.
Banks are your friends ONLY if you have $$.
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Old 10-08-2019, 12:46 PM   #3700
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This dreamwork must be lose money in Hyflux until siao Liao....
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Old 10-08-2019, 12:57 PM   #3701
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This dreamwork must be lose money in Hyflux until siao Liao....
Maybe he regretted searching for yield in the wrong place. Sometimes, i dun understand these investors. Singapore market got solid reits and dividend bluechips. But they go buy simi junk bonds. Sigh
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Old 10-08-2019, 01:03 PM   #3702
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Maybe he regretted searching for yield in the wrong place. Sometimes, i dun understand these investors. Singapore market got solid reits and dividend bluechips. But they go buy simi junk bonds. Sigh
Because bonds are perceived to be "safer". Guess never read deeper into the risks involved. Sometimes lessons have to be learnt the hard way.
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Old 10-08-2019, 01:05 PM   #3703
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Why did MAS & SGX approve junk bonds to Singapore retail?

And do they still approve such to lay people?
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Old 10-08-2019, 01:22 PM   #3704
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Why did MAS & SGX approve junk bonds to Singapore retail?

And do they still approve such to lay people?
Because there are no regulatory requirements to get the bonds rated in the first place...If it is not a requirement by law, why would any company pay a rating agency money to get the bonds rated in the first place?
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Old 10-08-2019, 01:25 PM   #3705
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Perpetual bonds should not be even called bonds, very misleading if it is marketed to retailers that way. When claiming on company assets, perpetual bond has the least priority.
U know 70% are illetrate right
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