HWZ Forums

Login Register FAQ Mark Forums Read

Microsoft Surface

Like Tree351Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 21-05-2014, 06:08 PM   #2821
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 599
this really depends on how strict some stores are with their release date and how "close" you are to the release date.

Personally, the bigger chains (Best Buy,etc) will stick to the date so it's gonna be tough.
Lol. Flying off fr NYC 13th. Sigh. Just wait for aug.
aural is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-05-2014, 06:13 PM   #2822
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 333
Research has shown that using pencil on paper book makes you learn a lot better compared to using iBook & digital ink. (you should be able to google that article. It was published a few months back.) So I don't encourage young learners to use a tablet as a textbook.

For Poly/Uni, it's different but I heard many students prefer to use a tablet with a Wacom digitizer like the Surface/Surface Pro/Asus Vivotab/Fujitsu Q-series, etc. Not sure how well the Wacom Intuos stylus work on the iPad though. Don't know anyone using it.
The Wacom Intuos stylus doesn't work at all on the Ipad. It needs a Wacom active digitizer layer in the screen and the Ipad doesn't have it.

Would love to see that research. If it is done using Ipads as the experimental group, I won't be surprised, since the Ipad inking experience is nowhere near as good as what Wacom active digitizer technology is able to provide, and the Ipad screen is small.

But if one tablet can replace all the kilos of textbooks and workbooks that a schoolkid carries nowadays, I would think parents might be interested ...
tspurs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-05-2014, 06:13 PM   #2823
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 400
Research has shown that using pencil on paper book makes you learn a lot better compared to using iBook & digital ink. (you should be able to google that article. It was published a few months back.) So I don't encourage young learners to use a tablet as a textbook.

For Poly/Uni, it's different but I heard many students prefer to use a tablet with a Wacom digitizer like the Surface/Surface Pro/Asus Vivotab/Fujitsu Q-series, etc. Not sure how well the Wacom Intuos stylus work on the iPad though. Don't know anyone using it.
Hmm I'm not sure if the article I read back then was the same. The one I read stated that their research shows better retention when pen and paper is used over a laptop or tablet with keyboard, but acknowledged that the study did not account for digital inking devices that mimicked handwriting using active digitizers (like the surface pros)... IBooks and iPads don't have proper implementations of digital inking due to the lack of active digitizers. What exactly did you google for to get that article? Most common search terms will turn up countless and worthless editorials talking about how much better ipads are for education because of apps. Zzz.
RequiemDK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-05-2014, 06:17 PM   #2824
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 400
The Wacom Intuos stylus doesn't work at all on the Ipad. It needs a Wacom active digitizer layer in the screen and the Ipad doesn't have it.<br />
<br />
Would love to see that research. If it is done using Ipads as the experimental group, I won't be surprised, since the Ipad inking experience is nowhere near as good as what Wacom active digitizer technology is able to provide, and the Ipad screen is small.<br />
<br />
But if one tablet can replace all the kilos of textbooks and workbooks that a schoolkid carries nowadays, I would think parents might be interested ...
<br />
<br />
Fyi there are schools that have been using full fledged cloud connected convertible windows 7 tablet PCs for students that do exactly that. Unfortunately while the experience and effects have been phenomenal, the movement still cannot go mainstream because of how expensive those devices are (each tablet PC costs 3k and are much heavier and less powerful than the surface pro due to the generation of technology they come from).
RequiemDK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-05-2014, 11:48 PM   #2825
E_T
Master Member
 
E_T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,095
The Wacom Intuos stylus doesn't work at all on the Ipad. It needs a Wacom active digitizer layer in the screen and the Ipad doesn't have it.

Would love to see that research. If it is done using Ipads as the experimental group, I won't be surprised, since the Ipad inking experience is nowhere near as good as what Wacom active digitizer technology is able to provide, and the Ipad screen is small.

But if one tablet can replace all the kilos of textbooks and workbooks that a schoolkid carries nowadays, I would think parents might be interested ...
Intuos Creative Stylus | Wacom

According to the link above it was created for iPad leh. Normal Wacom stylus just need a magnetic device at the tip.

I can't find that research too, too much noise on the Internet about the advantage of using computers. I found this though...

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/23/te...nted=all&_r=1&

Successful tech industry expert send their kids to schools that emphasise using your hands & body in learning for as long as possible. If kids ask about complicated questions, the parents or teachers should answer it instead of allowing the kids to search google by themselves until they're old enough. Mental maturity will depend on the individual child so parent participation in the kids' education is very important. (Yah, tough to be a good parent...)

In Singapore, tablets or PCs are introduced much later in upper Primary or lower secondary, which is ok so long as the teachers knows exactly the goal of using tech & not to make a movie using iMovie or Windows Movie Maker. Early childhood should not have access to tablets or PC unless you're doing what these 2 dads are doing.

Build a PC with Your Kids | ExtremeTech

Nine-year old whiz-kid writes iPhone application | Reuters

Physically building a PC, including installing the OS, customisations of OS & software, and developing software is quite fantastic for a 9-10 yo child. Once my elder one is proficient in English & Chinese, I'd probably teach him VB or C++ as a third language.
__________________
Read my blog at http://erictayet.wordpress.com or Follow me on Twitter @erictayet
E_T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-05-2014, 12:02 AM   #2826
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 333
Intuos Creative Stylus | Wacom

According to the link above it was created for iPad leh. Normal Wacom stylus just need a magnetic device at the tip.
OIC. I had thought you were referring to the Intuos pens that came with the Intuos writing tablets, which have been around for a long time. Wacom just decided to use the same 'Intuos' name for this one too, I guess.

This stylus uses Bluetooth 4.0 and doesn't need a digitizer layer. But it has a very large tip, which makes it difficult to see exactly the spot you are writing on. Adonit Jot Script Evernote Edition would probably be better for writing on Ipad IMO.
tspurs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-05-2014, 12:03 AM   #2827
E_T
Master Member
 
E_T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,095
<br />
<br />
Fyi there are schools that have been using full fledged cloud connected convertible windows 7 tablet PCs for students that do exactly that. Unfortunately while the experience and effects have been phenomenal, the movement still cannot go mainstream because of how expensive those devices are (each tablet PC costs 3k and are much heavier and less powerful than the surface pro due to the generation of technology they come from).
Hmm I'm not sure if the article I read back then was the same. The one I read stated that their research shows better retention when pen and paper is used over a laptop or tablet with keyboard, but acknowledged that the study did not account for digital inking devices that mimicked handwriting using active digitizers (like the surface pros)... IBooks and iPads don't have proper implementations of digital inking due to the lack of active digitizers. What exactly did you google for to get that article? Most common search terms will turn up countless and worthless editorials talking about how much better ipads are for education because of apps. Zzz.
Think we're talking about the same article because that article doesn't name the iPad specifically due to sponsor's limitation but the description matches the iPad.

I got a $4k Fujitsu T4215 about 8 years ago & it was a FANTASTIC TabletPC which lasted till now albeit with upgrades to CPU/RAM/SSD/Bluetooth & 2 replacements of batteries (Main + Bay). It has got a great Wacom digitizer that support 256 pressure levels but it's 2.2kg with 2 batteries.

Even with the SP3 clickable Pen, the weight itself is more than a pad of fool-scape paper & the satisfying sound & sensation when you use a 2B pencil to shade on paper, then use your fingers to smear the graphite to create gradient can't be replicated on a tablet.
__________________
Read my blog at http://erictayet.wordpress.com or Follow me on Twitter @erictayet
E_T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-05-2014, 12:12 AM   #2828
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 400
Intuos Creative Stylus | Wacom

According to the link above it was created for iPad leh. Normal Wacom stylus just need a magnetic device at the tip.
Oh, that stylus. The major drawback of that thing is that palm rejection only works in their Paper app if I remember correctly. The Adonit Jot Script is better, but it's expensive and the battery drains damn fast in comparison. The Adonit Jot Pro sounds good as well, but the damn thing scratched my iPad's screen protector to bits and started to lose sensitivity quickly. That Wacom Intuos for iPad stylus uses Bluetooth and a custom app to emulate digital inking. Compared to the Galaxy Notes and the Surface Pros where inking is baked into the OS.... it's a world of difference
E_T likes this.
RequiemDK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-05-2014, 12:18 AM   #2829
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 400
Think we're talking about the same article because that article doesn't name the iPad specifically due to sponsor's limitation but the description matches the iPad.

I got a $4k Fujitsu T4215 about 8 years ago & it was a FANTASTIC TabletPC which lasted till now albeit with upgrades to CPU/RAM/SSD/Bluetooth & 2 replacements of batteries (Main + Bay). It has got a great Wacom digitizer that support 256 pressure levels but it's 2.2kg with 2 batteries.

Even with the SP3 clickable Pen, the weight itself is more than a pad of fool-scape paper & the satisfying sound & sensation when you use a 2B pencil to shade on paper, then use your fingers to smear the graphite to create gradient can't be replicated on a tablet.
I wonder if I used the same Fujitsu tablet PC. Lol. I do remember it was really heavy, and wanted to replace it with a Fujitsu Stylistic tablet PC, which actually looks almost exactly like the Surface Pro 3... except the Stylistic Tablet PC was seen back in 2004 or so. It also cost $6k at that time. Edit: Come to think of it, Fujitsu still sells the Stylistics. They're just not readily available in SG. I called them about it last year and their reply was that we would have to indent from them and wait a couple of weeks for them to ship one in. :/ Otherwise, this beast would be the Surface Pro 3's closest competitor - http://www.fujitsu.com/sg/products/p...704/specs.html

Don't get me started on the feel of writing. Especially with a solid fountain pen. But for many things, the digital inking experience of the Wacom styli is still a good trade off for what it enables. The best feel I've had with digital inking still belongs to the Note Pro with a good matte screen protector and the right stylus tip. The Surface Pro's stylus tip is way too hard in comparison.

Last edited by RequiemDK; 22-05-2014 at 12:26 AM..
RequiemDK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-05-2014, 12:32 AM   #2830
E_T
Master Member
 
E_T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,095
OIC. I had thought you were referring to the Intuos pens that came with the Intuos writing tablets, which have been around for a long time. Wacom just decided to use the same 'Intuos' name for this one too, I guess.

This stylus uses Bluetooth 4.0 and doesn't need a digitizer layer. But it has a very large tip, which makes it difficult to see exactly the spot you are writing on. Adonit Jot Script Evernote Edition would probably be better for writing on Ipad IMO.
It seems to me Adonit Jot script is not pressure sensitive. True? Moreover, it's not OS supported. Meaning your favourite app devs have to code for it. Then again, so is the Wacom... But with TabletPCs & Surface, I don't need to spend another $100+ on stylus that's not OS supported. So another minus point for iPad as an Enterprise tablet.
__________________
Read my blog at http://erictayet.wordpress.com or Follow me on Twitter @erictayet
E_T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-05-2014, 12:44 AM   #2831
E_T
Master Member
 
E_T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,095
I wonder if I used the same Fujitsu tablet PC. Lol. I do remember it was really heavy, and wanted to replace it with a Fujitsu Stylistic tablet PC, which actually looks almost exactly like the Surface Pro 3... except the Stylistic Tablet PC was seen back in 2004 or so. It also cost $6k at that time. Edit: Come to think of it, Fujitsu still sells the Stylistics. They're just not readily available in SG. I called them about it last year and their reply was that we would have to indent from them and wait a couple of weeks for them to ship one in. :/ Otherwise, this beast would be the Surface Pro 3's closest competitor - STYLISTIC Q704 - Detailed Specs : Fujitsu Singapore

Don't get me started on the feel of writing. Especially with a solid fountain pen. But for many things, the digital inking experience of the Wacom styli is still a good trade off for what it enables. The best feel I've had with digital inking still belongs to the Note Pro with a good matte screen protector and the right stylus tip. The Surface Pro's stylus tip is way too hard in comparison.
Yes, the old Stylistic basic version was $6k with premium model up to $7k. Crazy!? The New Stylistics has a waterproof model! Imagine that!

Wah! Fountain pens are too heavy for me. I personally prefer a Pilot 0.5mm pigment ink ballpoint pen. Or a mechanical pencil like the Papermate Pacer Executive Cassette with Uni 2B leads, which has been with me for 20+ years.

http://www.officechoicemalaga.com.au.../SAN-S18035570

I used to have a matte screen protector for my Fujitsu but after 7 years of wear, I had to peel it off. It emulates the paper feel pretty well but of course, the stylus tip is plastic so can't emulate the graphite on a pencil ablating off. Looks like we came from the same era. LOL!
__________________
Read my blog at http://erictayet.wordpress.com or Follow me on Twitter @erictayet
E_T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-05-2014, 12:50 AM   #2832
High Supremacy Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 44,931
yep not for me thats for sure , im sure many people will love this tablet and it should be out of stocks soon . well good for them and you?
i think u need to separate ipad and sp to 2 different categories.

one is a mobile OS, the other is not.

Apple believes mobile and laptop OS shd be separate, hence u hv ios and osx.

So far, Apple's strategy clearly was implemented better.

MS tried to use the same strategy but failed miserably cos their windows mobile store could not take off.

consumers will choose the sp3 but definitely not use ipad as a comparison in terms of price, performance etc cos it's simply a different product.

u might as well say macbook pro is so much better than ipad?

so pls compare the products in the right category.
trento is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-05-2014, 07:15 AM   #2833
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 103
Holy jagger, surface pro 3 looks so much better. Gd thing I didn buy surface pro 2. Will definitely try to trade with my surface2.
md iszaki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-05-2014, 07:28 AM   #2834
HL
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 430
SP3 uses a bluetooth N-trig pen, not the Wacom found in SP1 and SP2. Personally, I could never go back to N-trig after using Wacom. But then again my N-trig was from 3 years back so not sure if things have improved. Those who intend to write alot, maybe better to try out SP3's N-trig first before splurging

Ipad is not using active digitizer screen, writing on it regardless of which pen is night and day from using the Wacom.

Last edited by HL; 22-05-2014 at 07:31 AM..
HL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-05-2014, 08:34 AM   #2835
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 333
It seems to me Adonit Jot script is not pressure sensitive. True? Moreover, it's not OS supported. Meaning your favourite app devs have to code for it. Then again, so is the Wacom... But with TabletPCs & Surface, I don't need to spend another $100+ on stylus that's not OS supported. So another minus point for iPad as an Enterprise tablet.
The Jot Script Evernote Edition is pressure sensitive, but only for apps that are 'Jot ready' i.e. incorporate its SDK. So yeah, far less flexible than a Wacom or an N-trig.
E_T likes this.
tspurs is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Important Forum Advisory Note
This forum is moderated by volunteer moderators who will react only to members' feedback on posts. Moderators are not employees or representatives of HWZ. Forum members and moderators are responsible for their own posts.

Please refer to our Terms of Service for more information.


Thread Tools

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On